#23345 by Kraken
24 Feb 2008, 00:03
I took part in one of the T5 proving trials today & here are a few thoughts. (I was unsure which forum to post this in & the BA one seemed the most appropriate - Mods, feel free to move this if you see fit).

Firstly, this was a pretty big trial [the T5 website says some are up to 3000 people] - most of the big hotels along Bath Road seemed to have a line of coaches there with BAA people in blue tabards [the giveaway for a T5 trial person] around.

I started off at the Marriott. Having had my ID checked & T5 pass issued, it was time for "rent-a-large gentleman in a bomber jacket" security to go through the hand baggage you'd taken along [you were asked to take some] to check for prohibited items. What was notable was the very visible armed police / sniffer dog presence - and this was just at the off-airport hotel. A brief intro followed from a member of the T5 trials team, then they showed the BAA promo video for T5 / Heathrow improvement plan that includes Heathrow East.

We were then bussed to T5. As we started to go down the road parallel to the North runway, I got a great view of a VS 346 landing thanks to the height advantage of being on a coach. Our coach driver completely missed the dropoff point at T5 so we did a nice circuit of the Western perimeter road to have a second attempt – he found the right place to stop this time.

When the trial started at 10am, it was up to departures to check in for my first flight – to Glasgow (yeah, of all the places on the BA network… I got Glasgow!) Checked in fine with one of the kiosks and my brief said hand baggage only, so straight through to security. As a domestic passenger, you have a photo & fingerprint scan taken of the 4 fingers on your right hand at the pre-security boarding pass checkpoint. Security was interesting. The x-ray machines use a fancy system that automatically returns the empty trays you have to put bags / coats into back to the landside of the x-ray machine. It was returning them too fast and they were falling onto the floor. I picked up a tray and put it onto the rollers that feed into the x-ray scanner to put my bag into it – the tray was already well on it’s way to the scanner, empty. You are only supposed to put the tray onto the rollers when it’s got your bag / coat in it ready to be scanned. This automated tray feed / return system also stopped the scanner working at one point as someone decided not to remove their bag from the tray after the x-ray scan. There is a sensor on the last position before the tray goes into the mechanism to send it back to the start [or landside if you like] and if it detects a bag in the tray, everything stops.

Cleared security no probs [no laptop removal / shoe carnival] and had a good wander round airside. Basically, everything is pretty much finished. Just about all of the shops & food outlets have had at least a basic fit-out and some are just awaiting merchandise / equipment. There are some great views of the airfield to be had from T5 – I sat and watched the departure runway for a while from what will be a food outlets seating area in just over a month. You could see the aircraft line up on 27L in the distance, then watch their entire takeoff run. It’s interesting to see how little runway some of the smaller aircraft use & how much some of the larger ones need. I know it was fairly quiet in T5 today, but you could still hear a good rumble when a heavily loaded plane did a long takeoff roll & climbed out very near T5.

The gate number was now up on the screens for the Glasgow flight, so went to the other end of the terminal to board. The fingerprint recognition system did not appear to be working at the gate, as I was not asked for a scan of my right hand fingers again [all the kit was there to take the scan]. On reaching the jetbridge entrance, we were given our next brief. I was now arriving into T5 from Copenhagen, transferring onto a flight to New York.

Headed down to the flight transfer area, which is on one side of the large immigration hall. The transfer passenger queue is not ideally designed. You have the tensa-barrier zig-zag but when you get to the front there are several points at which you can join a small queue to be fed into one of a few desks for a boarding pass scan / ID check. Naturally, people get to the front of the zig-zag and join the first queue – so the staff on the desks furthest away from this point were getting next to no people through their desks. Once through the transfer area, back up an escalator 2 levels to be re-screened for security and back into the departures lounge.

I went back to the aforementioned food outlet seating area to watch more departures & got to see 2 VS 346’s leave (did not see a single VS flight go when last there). Before too long the gate was up for New York – A10. Clearly remote stands will still feature when T5 opens, as gate A10 is actually 5 or 6 gates (A10a – A10e or f, I cannot remember). You descend from the departures level right down to ground level, then are bussed out to your aircraft. In our case, we were bussed round T5B [the satellite terminal] then back to T5A [main terminal]. A bit of a glitch here, as neither the bus driver’s or T5 Trial person on the bus ID card would open the door back into T5A – but we got in after a call or two had been made. Here we got our final brief, I was now an arriving passenger from Delhi.

I made my way back to the immigration hall I had visited earlier and BAA were throwing a lot of people at immigration at once, but I only waited about 5mins – and not all the desks were open either for EU passports. Sure, it was a bit artificial as you were using your traveler profile document as the passport, so nothing for immigration to inspect as such. I had no checked baggage to reclaim, but the baggage reclaim hall looks really good and easy to navigate. Straight out through Customs in the green channel – again, very artificial, as you knew they could not stop you for anything.

Back on the arrivals concourse, my brief said to leave the terminal via the “Trains and Underground” exit – this does not exist. There is a Trains exit and a separate Underground exit [presumably they both feed into the same station]. Tried asking a BAA person in a blue tabard about this and they said they could not help, it’s all part of the trial to see what people look for.

I collected my T5 goodie bag & got the bus back to the hotel. The bag contained the following quality items;
• T5 passport holder – my UK passport won’t fit into it
• T5 pen
• T5 baggage tag – looks like it cost about 10p to make
• Most worryingly, a travel power adapter. If used in the UK on one of those 4 or 6 way in-line gang sockets, if you press the wrong button on it when it’s plugged in, it releases the *LIVE* USA socket pins for you to electrocute yourself on. I will be calling the T5 trials team about this on Monday morning – the company I work for issued a few of the same model of adapter last year & condemned them all when this defect came to light. It’s not unreasonable to expect that someone may try to use this adapter to power something in the UK that they purchased abroad

All in all today was a very interesting & enjoyable day. T5 is a great building – I’ll be 100% honest and say it is not as architecturally amazing as I thought it would be, but it’s light, airy, spacious and very pleasant – certainly a far cry from T3.

I am sure that BAA & the authorities got a lot of information out of today – there were loads of observers observing just about every aspect of the trial. A lot was being filmed too. I have never seen so many police in an airport terminal either – don’t know if this was related to the trial or because the building is still a partial building site.

It will be interesting to see how T5 unfolds on the 27th March – I am sure any good failures will be accurately reported by the press [not!] From what I saw today it is clear that BA & BAA have thought very long and hard about this project & the finished article I saw is good. It will be even better if they can iron out the few niggles in the next month and a bit.

James
#200946 by aks120
24 Feb 2008, 02:50
James

Thanks for a great insight into the new T5 - I am looking forward to travelling through there when it opens. As with everything I am sure there will be some glitches but it is nice to see they are trialling it out with 'real' people before going live!!

Thanks for the report.

AKS120
#200958 by virgin crazy
24 Feb 2008, 11:05
Great Report it certianly sounds like it can walk the walk but can it talk the talk on opening day?
One thing I am confused with is the number of gates under the same number.
A10a Ð A10e , now thats just something for people to get confused by i dont like that idea at all.
#200988 by pjh
24 Feb 2008, 14:44
James

Thanks for the interesting report.

Originally posted by Kraken

As a domestic passenger, you have a photo & fingerprint scan taken of the 4 fingers on your right hand at the pre-security boarding pass checkpoint.


When did they slip that one in ? The shape of things to come elsewhere ? Was it only for domestic passengers ?

There's also a report in today's Observer

Paul
#200990 by mediamonkey
24 Feb 2008, 15:08
really interesting report.. makes me think about flying BA sometime son to try it out
#201001 by Kraken
24 Feb 2008, 18:20
I've read the article in the Observer that pjh linked above and it is certainly partially true. There are still areas in T5 that are behind hoardings where a lot of work is still on-going. Clearly, the areas we were let into were all but ready and there were a lot of signs up saying things like "BAA proving trial area / route - no equipment to be left in this area" so a lot is still going on behind the scenes.

With regard to the jetbridges - they are all in place, so why they cannot be used [as per the Observer article] I don't know. At gate A5 where I "boarded" the Glasgow flight, you went down the escalator from the departure level to jetbridge level & the entrance to the jetbridge was sealed off with a large temporary wooden door with a padlock on. Err, the place opens in a month & basic things like secure jetbridge doors are not in place.

Gate A10 is not at all confusing. At the main departures level, the gate is just labelled as A10 (and flights put up on the departure screens as leaving from A10). You go down to A10 via an escalator or lift and when you get down to ground level, there are screens showing which sub-gate A10a to A10e or f your flight is going from. The main problem down here is that the seating area for each sub-gate is not over large - and they had [deliberately, I'm sure] sent a fairly full New York flight to board from there. As long as they use these gates for smaller flights, they should be fine.

As I said in the original post above, it will be interesting to see how it all goes on the 27th March.

James
#201007 by mitchja
24 Feb 2008, 18:35
Originally posted by pjh
James

Thanks for the interesting report.

Originally posted by Kraken

As a domestic passenger, you have a photo & fingerprint scan taken of the 4 fingers on your right hand at the pre-security boarding pass checkpoint.


When did they slip that one in ? The shape of things to come elsewhere ? Was it only for domestic passengers ?

There's also a report in today's Observer

Paul


I received an email from BA the other week saying they have now also introduced this in the flight connection center at LHR.

I dont think you have to do it if you check-in at T1 for domestic flights yet though, it's only when you connect from international to domestic you are now finger printed, although I could be wrong on that one though.

It's all because airports want to mix domestic and international pax in the same departure areas. MAN and LGW will porbably have to also start doing this soon too [n] [n]

Regards
#201010 by Darren Wheeler
24 Feb 2008, 18:42
Sounds like it might be ready for biometric passports. Making sure the details on the passport match the person flying and not a look-alike.
#201011 by mitchja
24 Feb 2008, 18:49
LGW and MAN have for some time been taking photos of domestic pax as they enter the security areas where domestic and international pax are mixed, sticking a bar code sticker on your B/C and then scan this bar code as you board the A/C. If you are nosey enough, you can see your photo come up on their screen to confirm your the same person who entered the security area and haven't swapped B/C's with anyone else. It's to stop domestic pax getting on international flights by swapping boarding cards as domestic flights dont check ID as you board the A/C as is done with international flights. Finger printing is just a more secure way of doing this check.

Regards
#201027 by Roxy-Popsy
24 Feb 2008, 22:38
I believe 'The Money Programme' 7/30pm Friday 1st March has a feature about T5.
I have to say that the WOW factor is lost somewhat npow all the fixtures & fittings are in place.
#201049 by pjh
25 Feb 2008, 01:14
Originally posted by mitchja
LGW and MAN have for some time been taking photos of domestic pax as they enter the security areas where domestic and international pax are mixed.


I remember getting photgraphed a few years back at Aberdeen - even told to look up and smile..


Originally posted by mitchja
It's to stop domestic pax getting on international flights by swapping boarding cards as domestic flights dont check ID as you board the A/C as is done with international flights. Finger printing is just a more secure way of doing this check.


True as to the level of security, but they do (seem to) check ID at the *gate* on domestic flights in the UK.

Paul
#201063 by vizbiz
25 Feb 2008, 11:34
Is IRIS in place in T5?

I'm off with the Family on April 4th for a 2 week holiday in Cyprus, so it'll be interesting to see how efficiently T5 works....

Viz.
#201120 by stars
25 Feb 2008, 15:37
Thanks for the report James - it was an interesting read. I just checked my itinerary for April and it looks like I'm flying out of T4, so won't get to try anything out just yet.

Originally posted by pjh

True as to the level of security, but they do (seem to) check ID at the *gate* on domestic flights in the UK.

Paul



My first domestic UK flight after moving over from the US, was LHR to EDI. I had printed my boarding pass at home and had just a carry on bag. I was truly shocked that I was able to get through security and onto a plane without anyone ever checking that I was actually the person whose name was on the boarding card. I was never once asked for any sort of id. Same thing on the return flight. I guess it is (was?) hit or miss.

J
#201127 by McMaddog
25 Feb 2008, 16:11
Originally posted by stars
I was truly shocked that I was able to get through security and onto a plane without anyone ever checking that I was actually the person whose name was on the boarding card. I was never once asked for any sort of id. Same thing on the return flight. I guess it is (was?) hit or miss.

IIRC you do not need (at least photographic) ID for internal flights. If you are required it'll be the airline enforcing this. Certainly in the last few years I've never needed to show ID for LHR-Belfast flights.
#201128 by mitchja
25 Feb 2008, 16:15
Oddly enough BA say you dont need photo ID for just domestic flights, just the credit card used to pay for your e-ticket, although I've always been asked for both photo ID and the credit card used to book when checking in for recent BA domestic flights:

We do not require to see a passport or photo identification if you are travelling on purely UK domestic flights* (i.e. with no onwards international flights).
If you are travelling on an e-ticket, you will need to have the credit/debit card originally used to pay for the booking. This is for identification purposes only and you will not be charged again.

*If your credit card has expired since payment was made, you have a new credit card or you do not have your original credit card you used for payment with you, you will not be able to use the Self-Service kiosks or check-in desks. Please go to the ticket desk at the airport. The ticket desk will be able to check your booking and enable it for check in.
You will be required to present an acceptable form of ID, as per the list below, if you do not have your original form of payment credit card with you at the airport.

*If the credit card holder is not travelling and you have an e-ticket bought by someone else, you will need to obtain the email itinerary receipt from the credit card holder, as it is required at check-in. You will need this document AND an acceptable form of identification at the airport.



BMI just state that a passport is not required for domestic travel.

Regards
#201134 by pjh
25 Feb 2008, 17:20
My experience is from both Easyjet and Air Berlin ex Stansted heading to Scotland and back. Photo ID is requested both at check in and at the gate when boarding. I use my driver's licence.

That said, they have on occasion seen my work pass (assuming I've not torn it off in a fit of rage on a Friday night) and said "oh, that'll do". They also have to invoke a range of acceptable forms of photo id for those who have neither driver's licence nor passport.

Paul
#201147 by McMaddog
25 Feb 2008, 17:59
Originally posted by mitchja
BMI just state that a passport is not required for domestic travel.

Yes it's BMI I travel with - they don't require any ID for UK domestic

DfT website
Why do I need photo ID to fly on some airlines when I am only travelling domestically?

The Government requires that airline companies ensure that the person checking in hold baggage for a flight is the same person who boards it. Airlines may achieve this objective in a number of ways, including by requiring passengers to present photographic ID. The specific measures used by some airlines are over and above what the Government requires of them. They have been introduced under their own conditions of carriage.

The type of photo ID considered acceptable by the airlines can differ between carriers. Generally it can be national ID cards, passports, photographic driving licences, or international student ID cards. A number also accept the Citizen Card. Details of this are available at http://www.citizencard.net/.

When purchasing tickets, passengers are entering into a legal contract with the airline and by doing so accepting their conditions of travel. As not all airlines require photo ID, and as the type of identification accepted can differ between carriers, we would always advise passengers to check carefully with airlines before choosing to fly with any particular carrier. To be on the safe side, always carry your passport.
#201165 by stars
25 Feb 2008, 19:55
Sounds like it is not that unusual then... I guess it was shocking to me because it was the first time in years I had boarded a plane without handing over some sort of photo id at some point in the process.

J
#201203 by Kraken
25 Feb 2008, 22:16
IRIS is in place at T5 - there are 2 or 3 machines, located next to the immigration Fast Track line. Both Fast Track & IRIS lines are in the middle of the immigration hall, inbetween the non-EU & EU Passport sections.

James
#201572 by eejp1007
28 Feb 2008, 11:36
Originally posted by Kraken
IRIS is in place at T5 - there are 2 or 3 machines, located next to the immigration Fast Track line. Both Fast Track & IRIS lines are in the middle of the immigration hall, inbetween the non-EU & EU Passport sections.

James


I was in T5 on one of the last tours they were doing yesterday.
There will be 3 Iris machines located in the centre and there is already concern that this will not be enough as Iris is getting quite a good take-up. They said that they are reviewing this and they will see what happens. (Whenever any of us brought up any concerns they just kept on saying that they would listen to feedback and adapt accordingly[:(])

One of the other concerns that was brought up is that, though there is Fasttrack security, there is no dedicated route for super VIPs, they have to get from check-in to Fasttrack through the same route as all the other pax so one of the other guys there who does the travel for big stars said that basically if VS fly the route then they will avoid BA at all costs. The VIPs just won't go through with normal pax.
Along similair lines here was the fact that you can see into the Concorde Room from Gordon Ramsey's restaurant and the board room that they have set up in there has no frosted glass and look out onto a gantry where everyone can go. There is just no privacy for the elite there.
Also, if you take a certain escalator you can look into the crew briefing rooms and see all the terminals where they get their roster and request staff travel, all that. Slightly concerning and if I was BA crew then I would be kicking up a stink. You need SOME time out of the view of the public.

Overall it was very impressive, any places where queues might develop you don't feel enclosed because of the high ceilings and light but they did promise us there would be no queues and that you would go from self check-in to the other side of security in 10 mins max.
We had the full works at security going through yesterday, shoes off (they tell us it will be 1 in 5 who have to do this normally), full frisking by the staff (and I mean FULL) and explosives checks on all our coats bags and jackets. They said that they were seeing how long it took to process people through on the highest security settings.

If the baggage system works as they promise, they say that you can go to a desk and ask them to see where your bag is and it will tell you exactly where it is there and then! Also, you can check in and drop your bag at any time of the day of travel and it will be stored in a special room until your flight starts loading. Not quite Twilight check-in but good for people who have a meeting in the hotel at T5.

They have a lot of snagging to do, some of the stone floor tiles have already been cracked and chipped by the equipment they are still rolling around but it's pretty much there, WH Smith and Costa were even open and serving. Was a bit strange to spend 3 hours in the airport and then just get back on the tube to central London, wish they'd have given us a free flight back into London City just for fun!

I hope this gives people a better idea of what VS are up against, I think that VIPs will start to ditch BA because of the lack of privacy and either use VS or start using private jets.

That is all!

Ed
#201587 by mitchja
28 Feb 2008, 14:44
Thanks for your further insight Ed.

The other thing I read was that there will be no premium check-in desks in T5 either so all pax regardless of travel class will have to use the same check-in desks which seems a bit silly to me.

Regards
#201591 by Decker
28 Feb 2008, 15:09
That seems counterintuitive James - any references?
#201605 by Vegascrazy
28 Feb 2008, 15:43
Originally posted by eejp1007

One of the other concerns that was brought up is that, though there is Fasttrack security, there is no dedicated route for super VIPs


I've been involved in networking of the Xrays & AMDs at T5 and one of the areas that has been completed is the "VIP channel". It is on the ground floor southern end and, as far as I know is for the exclusive use of VIP's.

Re Mitcha's point about premium check-in, from memory it is over at the far right (southern end) of the check-in floor.

As I'm only involved in IT stuff at T5 I can't put hand on heart and say I'm 100% correct but we networked up the VIP search area at ground level a while back, and I saw what I'm sure is the premium check-in at the proving trial on 23/2.

Cheers
James
#201608 by mitchja
28 Feb 2008, 15:52
Originally posted by McMaddog
Originally posted by Decker
That seems counterintuitive James - any references?

One for a start
article


That was where I read it as well.

Regards
Virgin Atlantic

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