Regardless of what each network calls it, where I live I cant get any of the high speed data/3G services other than a standard 2G GPRS service on any of the networks. There's never any network investment in non-city areas by any of UK phone networks. I'm also no where near a WiFi hotspot.
Regards
Originally posted by AlanA
Again,
what does it actually give you more than other PDA phones?
As far as I see, its the 'BMW syndrome' i.e. its bought for the badge not the actual package.
You have to actually use one to understand that. There is a world of difference in the interface between an iPhone and a Sony P990, and for me, that's enough reason to justify getting one. Add to that the seamless way it works with all the applications I already use on the Mac, and it's not a difficult choice.
Just because you don't understand something, no need to belittle it.
Originally posted by mitchja
Regardless of what each network calls it, where I live I cant get any of the high speed data/3G services other than a standard 2G GPRS service on any of the networks. There's never any network investment in non-city areas by any of UK phone networks. I'm also no where near a WiFi hotspot.
Surprising, since The Cloud have put hotspots in a large number of UK pubs (apparently they tuck the base-stations away in quiz machines like Who Wants To Be A Millionaire). There's one in The Greyhound in Barnoldswick, for instance; and if you get into Colne there's at least 3 including the McDonalds. They also seem to cover most main railway stations, which is handy if you're travelling.
Originally posted by Pete
You have to actually use one to understand that. There is a world of difference in the interface between an iPhone and a Sony P990, and for me, that's enough reason to justify getting one. Add to that the seamless way it works with all the applications I already use on the Mac, and it's not a difficult choice.
Just because you don't understand something, no need to belittle it.
But again, no-one can tell me what it does any better than another PDA!
I can play films, music etc on my PDA, I can use the Microsoft Office package, I can sync my Outlook on my desktop, I can navigate using TomTom and the built in GPS, I can connect via WiFi to the internet and my email boxes, I can make phone calls world wide with my Quad band connection, I can play games on it, I can take photos or video and then use MMS. I can connect using Bluetooth. I use the world standard IBM/Windows compatable desktop and laptop, not the minority Apple system, so thats not a bonus.
What exactly over this does the iPhone give me?
Its not belitteling it, but asking a reasonable question as to what would £35 a month give me extra that I do not have now? The only thing anyone can say is that it has a new 'exciting' interface, hance my analogy with BMW and badge buying over substance.
Originally posted by AlanA
But again, no-one can tell me what it does any better than another PDA!
I can play films, music etc on my PDA, I can use the Microsoft Office package, I can sync my Outlook on my desktop, I can navigate using TomTom and the built in GPS, I can connect via WiFi to the internet and my email boxes, I can make phone calls world wide with my Quad band connection, I can play games on it, I can take photos or video and then use MMS. I can connect using Bluetooth. I use the world standard IBM/Windows compatable desktop and laptop, not the minority Apple system, so thats not a bonus.
What exactly over this does the iPhone give me?
Its not belitteling it, but asking a reasonable question as to what would £35 a month give me extra that I do not have now? The only thing anyone can say is that it has a new 'exciting' interface, hance my analogy with BMW and badge buying over substance.
You are saying my purchase is nothing more than buying a badge. To me that smells very much like belittling reasons I have already outlined. Let me reiterate those reasons more clearly for you.
My P990 also did many of the things the iPhone does, but the fact the user interface made it difficult to get at is reason enough for that Sony to head for the dustbin. You underestimate the joy of using an intuitive touch-screen device that doesn't hide its features beneath an ill thought-through UI. Anyone who's tried to use a P990 will understand this.
Also, you miss my point about integration with the applications I use daily. My old phone was very much geared toward Outlook on the PC - there was no easy way of getting my Mac to talk to the P990, and certainly very little in the way of Sync options for Mail, Address Book or iCal. The iPhone, on the other hand, is tightly integrated with those applications, and as I use them all the time, the iPhone makes perfect sense for me.
What does it do better than any other PDA? It works for *me* better than any other PDA.
What does £35 per month give you that you can't get elsewhere? I've already outlined earlier in this thread that that's a very competitive price for a 200 min, 200 text, unlimited data and free Cloud access package. To recreate that on any other network, I'd be paying the same or significantly more.
Now I understand perfectly that your system, needs and motivations may be different and your circumstances don't warrant the need of an iPhone - but that doesn't make your viewpoint the only one. I have bought an iPhone and I'm very happy with it, and it's a much better phone than the P990 it replaces.
Originally posted by preiffer
Interestingly, it seems it's rather low-key.
Still, Nick and I are OK... [:w] [;)]
Sounds about right though. Last to know etc.[V]
Thanks
Darren
Darren
But Pete, a lot of the iPhones will be bought by people who want to be seen with it, have no Apple computers but just want to say 'look I have an iPhone'
You are in the minority I feel, that actually want an Apple based device to work with apple system based products.
You are in the minority I feel, that actually want an Apple based device to work with apple system based products.
Originally posted by AlanA
But Pete, a lot of the iPhones will be bought by people who want to be seen with it, have no Apple computers but just want to say 'look I have an iPhone'
You are in the minority I feel, that actually want an Apple based device to work with apple system based products.
Based on what evidence? Or is it just your 'gut feel' that this must be the case simply because if you don't need one, then no one can?
BTW I posted this reply from my iPhone, something I wouldn't have been able to do with any success from my old phone [;)]
The iPods have certianly opened my eyes to Apple and other products they sell. Before owning an iPod I would have never considered buying an Apple computer. My next computer purchase will be an iMac. I'm now also looking at one of those Apple TV boxes too now that iTunes are offering HD material.
The iPod Touch (which I absolutley love BTW) also runs on OS X as does the iPhone. The Touch is by far the best iPod yet [y]
Regards
The iPod Touch (which I absolutley love BTW) also runs on OS X as does the iPhone. The Touch is by far the best iPod yet [y]
Regards
Regards
James Mitchell
James Mitchell
Originally posted by PeteOriginally posted by AlanA
But Pete, a lot of the iPhones will be bought by people who want to be seen with it, have no Apple computers but just want to say 'look I have an iPhone'
You are in the minority I feel, that actually want an Apple based device to work with apple system based products.
Based on what evidence? Or is it just your 'gut feel' that this must be the case simply because if you don't need one, then no one can?
BTW I posted this reply from my iPhone, something I wouldn't have been able to do with any success from my old phone [;)]
Based upon the evidence of people I know who want to buy one and are all to the one, IBM PC people.
If I was of the mind, I can also post as I have done so in the past from my Windows enabled PDA, something I have been able to do for two years now.
What apple have done it seems is finally catch up with Windows enabled PDA's. it would have been able to take the leap if it had made it 3G compatable I suppose.
I was talking to the Account Manager Europe for Nokia last week.
I asked him if they thought the iPhone would cause them problems against the N90 he was showing me.
He said that Apple were looking to sell a total of 1 million iPhones. Nokia sell over 3 Million phones per month and they were not at all worried by this phone.
(N90 is very nice by the way, but the screen is much smaller than my PDA, so not any use for me)
Originally posted by AlanA
If I was of the mind, I can also post as I have done so in the past from my Windows enabled PDA, something I have been able to do for two years now.
In theory, I could have also posted from my P990, but in practise websites built for full resolution screens like V-Flyer are very difficult to navigate on most smartphones. I have tried to just browse V-Flyer from my P990 in the past, and just given up on the idea.
I'm not sure I really care whether Nokia's European Account Manager sees the iPhone as a competitor or not; I don't work for Apple, nor do I earn commission on iPhones. My contribution to this thread has been to question the wisdom of unlocking an iPhone to use it on a network that doesn't support its features (and ultimately cost more to make full use of it); and latterly to justify why I bought an iPhone, as you would see it as a vanity purchase. I'm quite sure the N95 and its stablemates is a very capable smartphone, and probably an excellent choice for some people (probably more people than will choose an iPhone). I have no intention in turning this into a Mac vs PC war, as that's an emotive argument that rarely finds amicable conclusions.
If your PC-using friends are interested in the iPhone, then hopefully they'll be considering its purchase based on whether it fulfils their needs, and not just because it's got an Apple badge on the back. That, I would agree, is the wrong reason for buying one.
What I will say is that even though there are perfectly good reasons to get an iPhone (as Pete has mentioned) I still stand by the fact that people want to unlock the iPhone because they don't want to be tied to o2 and the basic plan on offer for the iPhone in terms of minutes/texts is pants.
Originally posted by VS075
I still stand by the fact that people want to unlock the iPhone because they don't want to be tied to o2 and the basic plan on offer for the iPhone in terms of minutes/texts is pants.
You can't call that a fact, that's an assertion [;)]
What makes you say the O2 tariff is pants? There's no other network that can beat the pricing like-for-like, and no other network that can actually support all iPhone features (namely Visual Voicemail).
Pete,
I (think!) we have come round to the same standpoint. Those who want to unlock the phones to networks which do not give the full use of the iPhones services I surmise, are in the main, the type who want the phone as a designer accessory than to use with an Apple based setup.
My HP PDA does show V-Flyer in all its glory (albeit too small for my poor eyesight these days, I need a 17' PDA) [:D]
The Mac vs PC argument will go on until both are replaced by a new process I think.
The comment about Nokia was just for information really, to see how the major competitors see the iphone in the grand scale of things.
I (think!) we have come round to the same standpoint. Those who want to unlock the phones to networks which do not give the full use of the iPhones services I surmise, are in the main, the type who want the phone as a designer accessory than to use with an Apple based setup.
My HP PDA does show V-Flyer in all its glory (albeit too small for my poor eyesight these days, I need a 17' PDA) [:D]
The Mac vs PC argument will go on until both are replaced by a new process I think.
The comment about Nokia was just for information really, to see how the major competitors see the iphone in the grand scale of things.
Thinking about this subject this morning, at some point in the (not too distant) future, Apple will release iPhone v2, and at that point, a fair percentage of v1 owners will want to upgrade. I suspect this will lead to a lot of friends & family of v1 owners suddenly in possession of one of these things with no need or intention of switching to an 18 month contract to O2 to use it. Then I can see a very valid reason for wanting to unlock the beast to use with an existing contract - or even PAYG. I'm sure my non-computer-using sister would be happy to replace her handset with an iPhone, but she wouldn't be too fussed about features like ITunes Music Store, Visual Voicemail or even email. As an phone combined with an iPod it's a pretty attracting combo.
My 2c.
I have been using Apple products for 2 years now, I use a MBP at home as I work in IT support and don't want the hassle of Windows at home.
For 2 years I've been ridaculed for using a Mac by collegues that have never used one except to say its rubbish. I brought then MacBook in one day and within a week 4 people had bought Macs.
Same with the iPhone. I was talking about one since it was released at Macworld. People in the office just ripped it for the usual 'its apple, its overpriced rubbish'. When I got my iPod Touch in September i brought it into work and everyone loved it. Only one person had a dig and these were comments like its to heavy, can't put memory cards in, can't load tomtom. Fine, its not for you.
I'm getting an iPhone from Florida next week. 7 people in my office already have O2 iphones. I think it all comes down to now, you have to try it first and then make the decision. It seems to win over a lot of people who like the interface more than the lack of features.
I have been using Apple products for 2 years now, I use a MBP at home as I work in IT support and don't want the hassle of Windows at home.
For 2 years I've been ridaculed for using a Mac by collegues that have never used one except to say its rubbish. I brought then MacBook in one day and within a week 4 people had bought Macs.
Same with the iPhone. I was talking about one since it was released at Macworld. People in the office just ripped it for the usual 'its apple, its overpriced rubbish'. When I got my iPod Touch in September i brought it into work and everyone loved it. Only one person had a dig and these were comments like its to heavy, can't put memory cards in, can't load tomtom. Fine, its not for you.
I'm getting an iPhone from Florida next week. 7 people in my office already have O2 iphones. I think it all comes down to now, you have to try it first and then make the decision. It seems to win over a lot of people who like the interface more than the lack of features.
Originally posted by Pete
What makes you say the O2 tariff is pants? There's no other network that can beat the pricing like-for-like, and no other network that can actually support all iPhone features (namely Visual Voicemail).
In terms of minutes and texts, the basic o2 package for the iPhone is pants.
Putting features like data, Visual Voicemail etc to one side, I'm paying £21 a month on 3 and I get 700 minutes/texts to use per month (and a free Nokia 6120). The good thing with this contact is that it is basically units I'm getting (1 unit = 1 minute = 1 text) so one month I can use 500mins/200 texts and the next month I may use 250mins/450 texts. This gives me great flexibility in how I use my allowances.
I accept that this isn't for everyone (especially when 3's network coverage is taken into account vs o2) but for me this contract is perfect, and it gives me more minutes and texts per month than o2 on the iPhone and for a lot less dosh!
Having said that this means nothing to people who have got an iPhone for the hell of it/to show off to friends, but I'm one of those people who have picked my contract based on the minutes and texts on offer (as well as the price of the handset) and for that reason, the iPhone isn't the phone for me.
Maybe once my contract is up (17 months away) the iPhone may be better for me as by then a newer version or two will have been on the market place and hopefully (Steve Jobs take note) will be available on more networks and/or there are better deals and maybe one or two networks will give you an iPhone for free as part of the contract.
Originally posted by VS075
Putting features like data, Visual Voicemail etc to one side
The simple fact is, you can't discount those features from the package. Data, in particular, is a core part of the functionality of the iPhone, and if you want to pay for that outside the minutes/texts deal (and actually use the iPhone as intended), you're going to pay a helluva lot more than your £21 package.
If you weren't intending to use a lot of data, then the iPhone isn't a sensible choice of handset - if cost is your overriding factor (as it sound it is), you'd be much better off with a more basic phone.
Originally posted by Pete
If you weren't intending to use a lot of data, then the iPhone isn't a sensible choice of handset - if cost is your overriding factor (as it sound it is), you'd be much better off with a more basic phone.
You are indeed correct that cost is the overriding factor in my case. I personally don't have a need to use a lot of data (if this includes Internet I can buy an Internet pack for an extra £5 a month to get unlimited Internet access), and use my phone to talk and to text (with the odd photo/video every now and then).
With my needs in mind I can justify my current phone and package deal I'm on, but it's a bit of a no-brainer when it comes to the iPhone option. If money was more free flowing into my bank account so to speak I would be the proud owner of one by now on one of the more dearer packages...I honestly would...but I don't even go to uni until next year so I'll be waiting a long while yet!
Originally posted by VS075
You are indeed correct that cost is the overriding factor in my case. I personally don't have a need to use a lot of data (if this includes Internet I can buy an Internet pack for an extra £5 a month to get unlimited Internet access), and use my phone to talk and to text (with the odd photo/video every now and then).
With my needs in mind I can justify my current phone and package deal I'm on, but it's a bit of a no-brainer when it comes to the iPhone option. If money was more free flowing into my bank account so to speak I would be the proud owner of one by now on one of the more dearer packages...I honestly would...but I don't even go to uni until next year so I'll be waiting a long while yet!
And there's the rub. Add that fiver for data onto the package, plus another 7 quid for The Cloud, and you're already at £33 without support for visual voicemail or EDGE. The point I'm trying to make is the O2 £35 isn't that bad a deal as tailored for iPhone users, although I grant you the 3 offering isn't as bad as the equivalent Vodafone or Orange deal. Pity their coverage isn't a bit better.
In 17 months when your 3 contract is due for renewal, I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot of unlocked iPhones on the second-hand market. Providing you're not desperate for the latest model, you'll save a lot of money compared to us early adopters! [;)]
Originally posted by Pete
In 17 months when your 3 contract is due for renewal, I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot of unlocked iPhones on the second-hand market. Providing you're not desperate for the latest model, you'll save a lot of money compared to us early adopters! [;)]
Oh yes, eBay will be full of them! [;)]
Interestingly, some are reporting that iPhone sales are lower than hoped. No official numbers yet though...
Originally posted by preiffer
Interestingly, some are reporting that iPhone sales are lower than hoped. No official numbers yet though...
Wigan-sized iPhone problem?!?
Funniest thing I've heard all day! [^]
See today on the grapevine that the hackers have said they can't get around the 1.1.2 locks, so they are waiting for the next firmware to be released and will try and hack that!
Great, not getting an iPhone from Orlando next week, will just have to wait a few more months.
Great, not getting an iPhone from Orlando next week, will just have to wait a few more months.
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