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#258906 by annekr
24 Apr 2009, 19:58
Hi guys, I'm really a lurker on here but would now appreciate some advice from the experts. I was booked on VS21 to Washington on 16th June and have now had an email saying it is cancelled and I am now booked on VS 55 which departs around 7 hours later. I have an internal BA flight booked meaning I will have to spend those extra 7 hours at Heathrow. It also means I have to pick up my hire car at Washinhton 7 hours later than planned and arrive at my Virginia hotel in the early hours instead of early evening. What should I do - ask for an upgrade to PE or some sort of compensation?

Anne
#713268 by tontybear
24 Apr 2009, 20:53
How annoying !

My reading of this from the Air Transport Users Council

http://www.auc.org.uk/default.aspx?cati ... ageid=4407

is that you are actually entitled to a full refund and not just being moved to the later flight and that's pretty much it even though your new arrival time is 7 hours later than planned. This is based on the amount of notice you have been given by VS. The closer the change is made to your actual departure date and the greater the effect it has on your arrival the more is available.

An upgrade to PE is pretty unlikely given the consolidation.

You could ask now to be let into the CH for free given your internal flight to LHR on BA can't be changed and that doing so might stop you cancelling altogether.

It depends on how wedded you are travelling on VS. It wouldn't hurt seeing how much alternative flights on another before you make your decision and phone VS to have a reasoned conversation with them (tempting to rant but that wont get you anywhere)

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
#713271 by annekr
24 Apr 2009, 21:10
Thanks. I have now established that BA will charge 50 per person minimum to change my flight. Virgin were polite but unhelpful - can offer full refund or change to day before or after. Can't give me upgrade or lounge access - should I be pushing for some miles or something else? Disappointed as Virgin is my airline of choice. There is a BA flight but the in flight entertainment just isn't the same, especially since we are returning from LA.
#713280 by barnstaple
24 Apr 2009, 22:17
The joys of onward connections booked separately!
#713287 by chumba
25 Apr 2009, 07:55
As far as cancellations go VA have to comply with the following EU article, (apologies for the long post but the following is the text from the EU regs. Hope it helps.

Article 5
Cancellation
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as
well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at
least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in
Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled
time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before
the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the
scheduled time of arrival; or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure
and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time
of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an explanation shall be given concerning
possible alternative transport.
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it
can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been
avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been
informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier.


Article 8
Right to Reimbursement or Re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full
cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not
made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in
relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest
opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date
at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the
right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier
offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the
operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either
to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

Article 9
Right to Care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or
e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of
persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of
unaccompanied children.

Article 7
Right to Compensation
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:
(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;
(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights
between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;
(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).
In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or
cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.
2. When passengers are offered re-routing to their final destination on an alternative flight pursuant to
Article 8, the arrival time of which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally
booked
(a) by two hours, in respect of all flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or
(b) by three hours, in respect of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and for all
other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or
(c) by four hours, in respect of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),
the operating air carrier may reduce the compensation provided for in paragraph 1 by 50 %.
3. The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank
orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other
services.
4. The distances given in paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be measured by the great circle route method.

Bearing in mind the compensation you are entitled to, i would think VA would bend over backwards to let you into CH to while away those hrs if that's what you wanted. It would save them some money, and remember you won't be the only affected passenger.
#713292 by daywalker
25 Apr 2009, 10:29
Virgin have offered all they need to in this case, the connection is nothing to do with them.

From chumba's post, what matters most in the OP's case is article 5, sec (c)

quote:(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure
#713297 by Guest
25 Apr 2009, 11:36
Chumba,did you just type all that out? [oo]
#713300 by annekr
25 Apr 2009, 12:12
Thanks everyone. I did try to book my domestic flight with Virgin but they couldn't offer it to me as I was doing miles plus money. I am travelling from the north of Scotland and we don't have a choice of carriers so I had to book separately with BA. Looks like we will spend the first day of our holiday at LHR - if they will let us check in luggage in the morning there is time to go into London for lunch!

Anne
#713304 by honey lamb
25 Apr 2009, 13:33
quote:Originally posted by annekr
if they will let us check in luggage in the morning there is time to go into London for lunch!

Anne

Checking in early won't be a problem. Once check-in opens it will be for all flights so you can check in your luggage the minute you arrive in LHR
#713305 by tontybear
25 Apr 2009, 13:41
Chumba - As VS have made the change several weeks in advance the EU Rules on compensation etc simply do not apply other than offering an alternative routing or a full refund.

Annekr - why not try another call and ask to speak to a supervisor who may have a more flexibility in allowing CH access especially given the long wait you will have. You don't say if you are a long time FC member but if you are that might help.

BTW if you do want to go into London get the Heathrow Comnnect rather than the Heathrow Express. It only takes 5 mins or so longer but is miles cheaper. Leaves from the same LHR Stations and arrives in Paddington.
#713306 by slinky09
25 Apr 2009, 13:45
annekr - I certainly have sympathy for your predicament. Whatever reasons VS has for cancelling your flight (currently all financial, low loads forecast for the VS21 on your travel date almost certainly), they have upset your best laid plans.

I also agree, booking connecting flights (if possible) with VS is often more expensive than separately and many people do that for cost reasons and I for one don't blame you; now you know however, that one consequence is that VS won't rebook you on something more suitable.

Lots of airlines are doing the same as VS at the moment, and all are sticking to the rules for compensation (i.e. to avoid it as much as possible). So no added benefit through that option either.

I hope it does not unduly upset your holiday and yes, why not check in your bags and hop on the HEX to spend some time in London [y].
#713307 by tontybear
25 Apr 2009, 13:56
update om times and fares

Express takes 21 mins and costs 32.00 return

Connect takes 33 mins and costs 13.80 return

Personally I'd use the connect and use the difference to get a nice lunch !

Both could be about 1/3rd cheaper if you have a railcard and depending on how many there are in your party. check on http://www.nationalrail.co.uk.
#713313 by chumba
25 Apr 2009, 16:11
Barfly, no used the magic ctrl c/v keys [:D]

I appreciate that as it's a long time before the flight EU rules haven't all kicked in ref compensation, i posted it for people to see the different possibilities with cancellations etc.
#713314 by annekr
25 Apr 2009, 16:16
Ok I tried again to get free lounge access but was told no. I then offered to pay the 60 per person and was told you couldn't buy access anymore as it had just been a trial which had stopped. Rather than spend money on trains and lunch I thought it might be as well experiencing all the lounge has to offer. So I then phoned virgin holidays (I am frequent virgin too) and spoke to very nice lady who said VH are still selling passes so I am now sorted. 120 down and 7 hours less holiday but I'm looking at it as part of the holiday. Only niggle is VA said they might not take my luggage before 3pm! Not going to think about that though.

Anne
#713396 by declansmith
27 Apr 2009, 03:18
Thats why booking tickets all on one PNR is the safest options.

Seen several occasions where inbound flight has been delayed and passengers booked seperate ticket so VS cannot help.

Also seen flights delayed but same booking and help has been provided.

You do pay a premium for booking in one booking but then you get the protection if anything goes wrong..
#713404 by mcmbenjamin
27 Apr 2009, 12:41
Or go plane spot. There is a bowling alley near LHR if I recall correctly.
#713476 by Tinkerbelle
27 Apr 2009, 23:55
quote:Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
Or go plane spot. There is a bowling alley near LHR if I recall correctly.


Yes there is...
Virgin Atlantic

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