My first UC / Comparison VS and BA

Hello all,

This is a cross between a trip report, textual only sadly, as I can't face descending on lounges / cabins / crew with a camera, and a reflection of my very limited experiences of these two airlines. I must state that I have only taken three flights on BA J and one in VS J so the sample is tiny and I am aware of that! Luck / misfortune is going to skew my impressions greatly.

The preamble:

I am an all-too infrequent flyer these days but really enjoy long haul travel in Premium cabins. I was feeling in need of a hit since my last trip, which was LHR - MAA - BLR LHR in BA last Christmas. That trip was NCW outbound, on a 777, and NNCW inbound, on a 747. So, feeling like that memory was fading I decided to try something new and try VS. Why VS? The brief for my trip was somewhere fun for the weekend, easy to get around, vaguely familiar as it was such a short stay and most importantly, a great lounge. NYC was the obvious choice...

Booking / website:

The VS website is not a patch on the BA one. It's not nearly so intuitive and has an annoying habit of not laying out the page correctly when printing itineraries. However, the biggie for me is seat selection before. I don't have any status so this makes such a difference. I was able to get 14A, right on the nose, on the outbound VS45 and 6K on the return VS10 which is one of the seats far from the bar and facing a partition. I wanted to try a 744 and an A346 so went out on the former and back on the latter.

Check-in:

Virgin e-mailed and invited me to use their drive-through check-in even though I was on a cheap ticket. The faffing around that ensued obtaining the car details was probably not worth it but I like a challenge. Once in through the considerable security the process flowed brilliantly and the space is very smart up there. I was concerned that my carry-on would be forcibly checked but no-one batted an eyelid. Once through the deserted private security channel, which took all of 20 seconds, I was ejected into the seething mass of T3 on a bank holiday weekend. The T5 fast track was nowhere near as quick. One of the main issues with T3 is the lack of natural light and it felt hot, packed and extremely stressful and that was just en-route to the Clubhouse. T5 is so much better in this regard - light, open, unstressed and with ample areas for everyone to sit. Coming back, I was quizzed at Upper Class check-in as to what class I was in. I can read a sign, Mister... JFK was an absolute zoo but I'm sure that's all been covered ad nauseum.

The lounge:

The entrance to LHR Clubhouse is a rather nice marble staircase but I have to say the one aspect of the experience I expected to shine, did not. Dare I say it but I thought the Clubhouse was starting to date next to T5 Galleries. The dcor looks a bit past it next to the clean lines and serenity of BAs equivalent. Certain elements irritated me: the soul music blaring out, the stupid TVs with images of fires playing, the fact that all of the upper level was closed and the shortage of empty seats although it was a busy weekend. I wanted some breakfast but didn't want to eat it off a coffee table so I queued up at the 'Brasserie'. The staff were very harried and people were getting annoyed that they were having to wait for tables. Eventually I did sit down and had a lovely cold glass of champagne, a smoothie served in a tiny shot glass and eggs benedict that contravened the trades description act, being a sole egg on a diminutive muffin, marooned on a vast plate. To complete the lilliputian vibe, cutlery which was surely off the plane was used. The overriding impression was that of doling out tiny amounts of everything to limit costs and to be able to say it is 'served'. I preferred Galleries Club by far. The staff were attentive when the place quietened down though once the morning rush was over, which was around 11.

I pre-booked a facial so I preceded this by using the spa pool, sauna and showers. The facilities were deserted so this was really nice. The showers were really impressive and they had a steam function which turned the shower cubicle into a steam room. The toiletries were Cowshed which is a brand I much prefer to Elemis, it seems higher quality. My facial was with a very affable lady who was serving her last day and I got a lengthy 45 minute treatment. In comparison, the 10-minute chair pummelling and hasty temple rub I had with BA was shameful. I have to say this facial was one of the best I have had anywhere.

The JFK lounge was very impressive also, despite being before security. It has an open ceiling and feels very airy and spacious. Im sure my server was the campest man in NY and like the other staff, had a great sense of humour and playful attitude whilst being extremely on the ball. Top-ups were forthcoming without request and I even had to request a respite from the gallons of Mumm emanating from the bar. At one point, whilst I was having a banter with the staff, a bottle of Perrier Jouet was produced. This is more like it! The staff were efficient, charming and fun. I ate a passable anniversary prawn cocktail, a nicely simple main of spaghetti, onion, raw tomatoes, basil and olive oil and a rather lame dessert which was described as an anniversary black forest gateau but was just chocolate brownie, cream and cherries. I cheekily angled for involuntary denied boarding (a contradiction I know) with the staff since all three flights were over that day but they were having none of it. They also disclosed that Virgin only offers miles incentives rather than cash. In comparison to the BA EWR lounge the space was much nicer and the interaction with the staff fun. I would rate the food as equal in quality.

The flight:

Boarding was called, and indicated as closing when it hadnt even started As I walked into the holding pen I could feel about 100 sets of economy eyes glaring at me for cutting the line (legitimately). From then on it was slick as you like straight down the jetway without stopping and into the UC cabin. First impressions of the nose seat were that it was much bigger than I expected and, despite evident signs of use, was well maintained and very clean. The cabin was much cleaner than any BA plane Ive been on. The crew were straight over with drinks, instructions and more friendly banter: a lady opposite me remarked that she felt like she was flying the plane, she was so far into the nose. The male crew replied that the plane was actually being flown by someone on a Play Station in Birmingham. This was a sense of humour right up my street and the recipient laughed too, it was a well-judged pun although I appreciate its not the kind of thing one expects to hear on BA. My point is, all through the flight the crew engaged with passengers in a way which was at least equal to the very dry crew I flew with to MAA on BA which was not something I expected. Two champagnes down (and Virgin has really nice, full-size glassware) we pushed back, 20 minutes late due to offloading bags. BA handed out diddy little glasses of fizz that were much too warm, in contrast. One things I noticed in the nose of the 747 was that the turns seemed really exaggerated and sudden and the nose gear made a really worrying rubbing sound too that had all the passengers looking at each other worriedly. Once up, drinks and amenities flowed with largesse. I know BAs kit is rated above the Virgin basked approach but the pens, moisturiser and lip balm were much nicer in my view. I ate a fairly large and tasty salmon salad to start, an unappealing chicken main, a fab cheese plate with cheese in great condition i.e. not chilled to death and was nicely presented with a metal bowl of biscuits wrapped in nice linen, and finally a forgettable roulade of strawberries and cream. The table settings and linen were much nicer than BAs trays and the lack of a trolley was an impressive touch. I particularly liked how post-takeoff drinks were brought out on a metal tray and distributed round the cabin, it seemed so much more stylish than doing it from a trolley. I preferred the presentation of the food on Virgin but the quality was predictably better on BA, especially the lovely fish pie I ate on BA to MAA. The main was also laughably tiny on Virgin.

Once replete, I decided to sample the bar and found myself staying there for four hours! No, I did not drink the bar dry of champagne but sampled cappuccinos, OJ and perhaps a few of the wines on the list. The bar was great fun and quite an extravagant use of space on an aircraft. I chatted to the crew, other passengers and was lambasted by one other lady at the bar for extolling the virtues of BA. She regarded FIRST as an unwelcoming old boys club, I havent been so lucky to sample that yet was my response! One of the Senior crew explained how important it was for them to get involved in the service to ensure its done to a high standard. This was refreshing to hear. She said that the culture inflight comes from the top down, she saw it as very important to motivate her team in these miserable times to create a nice atmosphere on board for the passengers, which would in turn entice them back. These were encouraging words and, best of all, put into practice. One thing that was surprising was how vigilant the crew were towards other non-UC passengers entering the cabin. On returning to my seat I noticed that V:Port had still not been resuscitated since it crashed earlier. No bother since I had the second meal service to distract me and I asked for one of the main meal options served earlier. This was produced in a flash and was a reasonable steak pie with mash and greens, then scone with normal accompaniments. I really like how Virgin de-package things such as clotted cream.

Upon landing I made an amazingly fast sortie through immigration and was reflecting on my first Virgin flight as I smoked a cigarette outside the chaotic and clammy T4 at JFK. What astounded me most was the correctness of it all: everything was brought as it should be, nothing was dropped or forgotten, names were used, glasses were topped up, comfort was constantly checked, things were explained and fun was poked were it was deemed appropriate. I had never been asked if there was anything further I wanted so many times. In the area I expected Virgin to fall down, it had excelled.

Two days later, and a fab stay at the mecca of design the Standard Hotel in Meatpacking, I was still glowing with happiness at my outbound experience. I was convinced I had experienced a freak of Virgin nature and the return flight would expose the airline as the flaky, hyped and showy beast it is often called. Well, I am glad to say not. Boarding the A346 the cabin sparkled and shone like no BA plane (nor the outbound 744 for that matter) and I especially love the chromed features such as air vents, door handles to the loo and TV mounts. I had an exceptionally private seat opposite the partition. To summarise (as I know I am waffling now) the return flight stacked up entirely in comparison to the outbound. We had to return to the gate due to a discrepancy with the bags, which left me questioning why we left the gate in the first place, but this was handled with speed and efficiency. After take-off, an expedited meal service began and I had a lovely asian chicken salad but a poor and tiny main of grilled steak. The breakfast of bacon roll in a crusty bap was nice, as was the cappuccino and it was served pleasantly close to landing. I seem to remember BAs bacon roll being much soggier. Another striking aspect was the quietness of the airbus. I love flying so I equally enjoy the brutish power and roughness of the 777, for example, but this plane was a smoothie and much more comfortable for kipping in. I didnt sample the bar due to the late hour and short flight time.

One other thing I will raise is the crews eye for safety. It has been intimated on other boards before that VS crews dont have the same regard for safety as BAs. That was not evident from my flights: very detailed announcements were made explaining what can go where and the crew had an eagle eye for things on the floor in the same way that BAs do in J.

The seat:

By many accounts the 747 has larger seat than the airbus but I couldnt really tell much difference. For sitting, much space is wasted and I preferred the low-slung, slouchy feel of the CW seats. The motors on the VS seat are really loud as well. In bed mode, the VS seat trounces even NNCW, but thats been said many times. It was very nice for me to lay flat out without my feet touching anything and to be able to lie on my front with my hands under the pillow. It was the same sleeping position I generally have, which is a feat. Incredibly, I managed 4 hours sleep and I have never slept more than 30 minutes on a plane before. The seat frame feels very sturdy, much like NCW, although when going from bed to seat can foul the cocktail shelf although it stops itself from tipping it. One annoying aspect on the Airbus was that the table cannot be used with the bed made. Talking of beds, Virgins mattress topper, crisp duvet and pillow were much better than the over-starched damask on BA. I hardly used V:Port but I did try a few tracks. The selection wasnt anywhere near as vast as expected and I preferred the interface and choice on BA (NNCW only though)

The arrival at T3:

Ive already made my feelings clear about T3. The distances are ridiculously long and it was a real trek back to Revivals. Fast-track arrivals worked well however and the hike was well worth it, as I had another great facial and an invigorating shower, then I was brought a nice warm ham and cheese croissant by the kind staff there. I also had a lovely fresh mint tea. One strange side effect of the opaque windows was that of disorientation I could still feel turbulent bumps when on the ground for a good few hours.

The outcome:

I am not an important customer to BA or VS. I buy the cheapest tickets far too irregularly for that. My expectations of VS for this trip were low and that has probably helped their cause enormously. Where I have a choice between the two, and where VS is the same or even slightly more that BA, I will shamefully admit to defecting to VS from BA. For a relative novice like me, the experience was more special and felt more premium. I can only imagine how FIRST feels, although one day I will sample it for sure. I will continue to fly BA J as we are in the system with miles and BA serve lots of places VS do not.

Feel free to make comments / hurl diatribe / ostracise

Andrew

P.S. Edited to make more sense 1936 2/9/09

No diatribes, this was a very well written account. No cheap shots either. This lines up with a lot of observations we have had - the food is hit and miss on VS, the service can be great, especially if you like it with a lighter touch (I do), a lot of the little things can still be great on VS. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

I'd never leave VS for BA. Just not worth it if you live in the US, no matter how good FIRST is (assuming I'd eventually get to fly it). NNCW is clearly not enough of an incentive. It was interesting to see things pointed out - BA use the sorts of glasses and 'plates' which were common in Y 15 years ago - the bowls instead of a plate, the small glasses.

I do think consistency has been a problem for VS in recent times. I'm glad you lucked out, but you might just as easily have stumbled on a poor flight service-wise, and then you'd be swearing off VS for the rest of your life. I also think that the fact they take what is still C food, and try to pour it out onto a proper plate and serve it 'properly', leads to a very hit-and-miss experience with the food. Much harder to control the temperature this way, for example, and you can get into trouble when you are preparing this for 50-odd people, this is not 10 people in F. Hence more consistency issues.

I'm struggling to stick with VS right now. Your report isn't helping, one more 'hate note' against VS might have pushed me over the top [;)]

Thank you, I loved this no nonsense comparison. I agree with MarkedMan that consistency is a big probem these days but great to hear you had such a postive experience.

Very interesting read, thank you.

Thanks for a good comparison.

Couple of points

Its not entirely fair to compare T5 and T3 given T3 is almost 50 years old and T5 just a mere baby in comparison.

You comment from the VS SCC that service comes from the top down and she needed to motivate her team reveals a lot. No doubt she was motivated by her herself having a good FSM to lead from the front. There is an ongoing debate on TRs about the role of the FSM and how some do the leadership 'thing' whilst others hide behind the curtain not to be seen from door closing to door opening and probably think that us pax are to be had on their plane under sufferance.

I would disagree with you when you say 'I am not an important customer to BA or VS.' As any sort of customer you should be valued by whoever you fly with. As they tend to say on the landing announcements 'we know you have a choice' ...

Just to clarify, in conclusion I WILL defect to VS over BA. Sorry the post was misleading... Am still concerned I have been exceptionally lucky though!

quote:Originally posted by tontybear


Its not entirely fair to compare T5 and T3 given T3 is almost 50 years old and T5 just a mere baby in comparison.


I would disagree with you when you say 'I am not an important customer to BA or VS.' As any sort of customer you should be valued by whoever you fly with. As they tend to say on the landing announcements 'we know you have a choice' ...




To respond to your first point, Virgin (or BAA) has spent a lot of money refurbishing parts of T3 to bring it up to date, which has been successful in part but clearly it's not en entire refurb. It may not be fair to compare T3 and T5 but it's certainly relevant as BA and VS fly to many shared destinations, often charging the same for tickets. If the airlines are even stevens in the air, would you choose the one with a hideous airport experience or the one with a nice one? As it happens, I didn't think the airlines are even stevens in the air. I thought VS was much better.

To respond to your second point, perhaps I should have said 'commercially important'. As for feeling valued, I certainly did that as the crew were so attentive.

Wow thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed report. Really glad you had such a good experience, makes me proud to be a Virgin!

[Neil]

Interesting read, thanks for taking the time to post it.

Neil

Thanks for such a great report and really glad you had such a great flight

quote:Originally posted by virginboy747
Wow thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed report. Really glad you had such a good experience, makes me proud to be a Virgin!


And you learn something every VSboy747, seems to be waiting for 'the one' [}:)][}:)]

I think this is a great comparison - really nicely done and an excellent contribution to the board.

It's interesting to hear that some of your 'wow' factors were the same I had the first time I flew VS Upper, such as the full size glassware rather than thimbles, and things which you often find pre-packed (e.g. butter, sachets of salt, etc.) aren't in the VS J cabin.

It sounds like you also had great crew on both flights, while your feedback on the food reflects the general sentiment on the outgoing menu cycle.

Thanks very much!

Mike

[Scrooge]

Yet another thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed comparison. It also points to what many have said and has been repeated on this tread, a good FSM will make a flight, a bad one breaks it, I am glad you had good ones in both directions.

I very much enjoyed this account, thank you!
I loved the joke about the PlayStation in Birmingham!

Thanks for the objective account! Great read.


James

Top marks on a well rounded report from both sides.

cheers

alex

thanks for an informative read during my morning amble around the v-flyer site!

Thank you for a very balanced review of both carriers from your perspective. Our own next long haul flight will be to MRU with BA in J which will be a new experience for us having always travelled VS. But a 1K GBP difference in price was the only factor I was considering.

Iain

Thanks for the detailed review.

I am due to fly my first VS UC flight later in a couple of months time and now I am sooooo excited!

Flew LHR- BOM/DEL-LHR in Club World. Very mechanical,staid performance. Amazed by the size (or lack of it) of the glasses. Who invented a cabin where I have to step over someone else; travel backwards and the sleeping passenger next to me has the noise of his shield being lowered if I want to eat!. And wash bags on demand only!

We did this because BA's Easter two for one offer over the Easter weekend was unbeatable and at 808 return per pax it was a good deal. But at a full business class fare. Never!

BA trade on their size ex LHR and yes T5 is a lot better than T3 though fastrack is slower than VS's dedciated channel; and who invented those stupid moving trays!

Worries about VS ability to survive and such a shame they have pulled off LHR/BOM.

Trying the codeshare next month. Can VS embrace this please. Give us the correct Jet Airways telpehone number, and point out that they will do your seat, meal and advance passenger details over the phone if you give them your VS e-ticket number. ( I had to discover this for myself)

yes I agree that was a great comparison...I am also trying my first UC in Feb returning from Miami (but going out PE as it's a daytime flight and loads cheaper)....we have travelled BA business class several times and have really enjoyed it except as you say tugpilot when some idiot,sorry passenger, has to climb over you at night to get out and manages to kick your bed in the process, waking you up and then you have to wait till said person comes back so you don't get disturbed again.
For once BA and VS prices were almost identical so we've taken this opportunity to try UC and also everyone says that PE beats Traveller Plus hands down so this could be a real win win situation.
xxH

A great report - thanks for taking the time.

We have generally been lucky and had good/very good VS flights in UC. Hope it continues for the next few booked!

Last week we flew back from Nassau with BA in WT+ and what a ghastly flight that was. Service was absolutely abysmal and in no way compared to PE.

I agree, its shamefull the service offering they get away with in WT+, however I have it on good authority its something to do with the Cabin Crew unions, one thing they won't allow is a 'hot towel' service in WT+. I think any union who has this much power to dictate service delivery, needs a good dose of reality.

It was more serious than a lack of a hot towel.

My daughter is a vegetarian but also a type 1 diabetic. I had ordered her a vegatarian meal which she duely got on the way out.

On the way back they claimed not to have it loaded. They told me I hadn't ordered one and wouldn't accept I had. They told me I must have imagined it. They then told me she'd 'just have to wait' until the whole aircraft had been served their meals and they would look again. But being diabetic and not having eaten for some time she couldn't wait!

Fortunately I had ordered a vegetarian meal for myself and she could eat that, then they 'found' the vegetarian meal with her seat number on. No word of apology or consideration for her health issues.

They were the most unfriendly, miserable crew I have ever come across - and a letter has been sent to BA - but of course no reply as yet.