How many miles compensation?

[Neil]

quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
quote:Originally posted by Neil

We all agree Paul is a nice, lovely chap and that he should become Cabin Crew.



Have you actually met Paul? [:w]


No, Paul hasn't had the pleasure of meeting me yet, but I am more than sure what I have put will be correct, he seems such a nice chap [:w]

[preiffer]

quote:Originally posted by Neil

No, Paul hasn't had the pleasure of meeting me yet, but I am more than sure what I have put will be correct, he seems such a nice chap [:w]

Be warned... I know where you are at the weekend... [;)]



Nemmie, just to clarify, as my intention was not to insult any individual - more the fabric of the society we seem to be rapidly transitioning into. We've seen (yesterday) how quick people are to jump on companies who are seemingly 'out for what they can get' or 'trying to get the maximum' (ESTA/VS/20, anyone?) and opinions are voiced very strongly when we feel a company is taking advantage of a situation.

While this is nowhere near as unethical as the scenario yesterday, I DO feel it is also the duty of us as *customers* to play fair. As you point out, the number of times you've not asked for any compensation is probably countless - and please let's not confuse *complaining* with 'compensation' - one CAN be performed without the requirement for the other. On this occasion, something went wrong with service. VS recognised this, and recovered as best they could. A recovery, which I feel was entirely reasonable and of the right magnitude.


All of that, great. What's not so great is the (now all too common) mentality of 'now, what else can I get/push for' which arose. This is not a unique scenario by any stretch of the imagination, as I could probably point to hundreds of such claims on this site alone - I just wonder where it will end and I DREAD the prospects of future companies if the growing consumer culture is that of 'what else can I get out of them'.



Anyway, /rant off. Apologies for the upset - but I still stand wholeheartedly with my viewpoint.

This has been interesting thread for several reasons!

We all have expectations when we buy a product. Most of them are reasonable but some are not (reference the DYKWIA crowd)

In all walks of life 'stuff' happens so we have to put up with it.

When said 'stuff' happens we should have an expectation that staff will try and put it right but lets be realistic at 30,000+ feet in the air there is often not a lot the crew can do. That said there is a great difference in the crew trying to sort the problem / apologise etc and where they do sod all. In March on my return from EWR I had a problem with the meal, I could have complained to VS afterwards and got a few miles but didn't because the CC involved made an effort to rectify the problem, not totally successfully but they did make the effort and that, to me, was more important than getting some miles.

So the IFE for one pax wasn't working but the CC offered a DVD player but the pax was not happy because they had already seen / did not fancy the films. BUT they could have had the same experience with the main IFE with 'nothing to watch'. Would that merit compensation? There is a big difference between the IFE not working and there being 'nothing' on it to watch.

To some people yes, to others no - again that's down to personal preference. Would I complain about 'nothing to watch' NO, but otehrs would.

The same could be said with the food. The food is not necessarily 'bad' because someone does not like a particular dish.

The same goes with any feature on a seat / suite.

There is another thread on here were someone said the unvailability of the LGW CH (though an alternative was available) had spoilt their trip. Would that deserve any compensation? To my mind no but to others they would scream until they got something. But what if, as happened recently at LHR, there was a reduced service because there was a problem with the water. It seams that VS made efforts to maintain services. Would that merit compensation?

As I said 'stuff' happens and we need to deal with it but how a company deals with it says a lot about it.

Throwing 'compensation' at customers rather than trying to stop problems in the first place does cost more and a company that does not see that is heading for a fall. I hope VS is not one of them.

[Decker]

FWIW I've had the arm rest not go down before and it IS a PITA.

quote:Originally posted by Decker
FWIW I've had the arm rest not go down before and it IS a PITA.


10,000 miles. Ker-ching!

[Scrooge]

quote:Originally posted by slinky09
quote:Originally posted by Decker
FWIW I've had the arm rest not go down before and it IS a PITA.


10,000 miles. Ker-ching!


And a form letter that does not specify what the problem is/was but that they are sincerely sorry that the unsubscribed problem happened.

This thread reminded me about the complaint I made a couple of months ago. I won't bore you with the details, but my letter detailed 10 problem with one trip where I got utter incompetence from the initial booking agent, the agent I spoke to to upgrade my booking, the check in desk agent, the roaming 'can I help you' agent at T3, the ticket desk agent,the VS website and the customer relations department.

I complained soleley because I was furious and wanted some miles, and thought miles were the likely outcome of my complaint. I didn't expect anything more useful than that. What I got was a call from the executive office who spent about 25 minutes explaining why things went wrong, apologising profusely, and what they were doing to try to rectify them, and then at the end told me what she was offering me in the way of compensation. Which was fine.

Not really sure what my point is. I guess that I was really impressed by the response I got, and the goodwill towards Virgin was completely restored (until the next trip, probably!)

Anyway, not that relevant to the thread perhaps, but I was mega impressed with the woman in the executive office who sorted out my gripes.

Wow, what a thread! Have to say that's kept me entertained on my train ride in this morning.

My two cents' worth (feel free to disagree):

- Airlines (including VS) charge a very high amount for travelling at the front of the plane (sometimes more than 20x the cost of Y). They can do so because they know that businesses (my own included) will pay it if it means getting their employees from A to B and refreshed ready to perform the moment they step off the plane at the other end. Nonetheless, it is still a very high amount to pay.

- Given the high price, I don't think it's wrong for a passenger to have high expectations. When those expectations are not met (which has been the case to some extent on all VS flights I have taken - largely due to poor product, with generally excellent crew), the passenger has two options - (1) Switch loyalty (e.g. from VS to BA) or (2) Write and tell VS, in the hope that they can improve matters for next time.

After two disastrous UC flights to Chicago (see prior TRs), I did write in to complain, not motivated by a desire to screw VS for as many miles as possible, but to express my utter frustration and to ask why I should continue my long-held loyalty to the VS brand.

The reply was full of Virgin's standard corporate chat about how awesome they considered themselves and was totally lacking in concrete suggestions as to how matters would improve(if you're after personal bug-bears on the degradation of modern society - this is mine) However- they DID appear to be sorry for my bad experiences, and awarded 25,000 FC miles as an apology.

For my recent trip to JFK, I decided to give VS one last try before switching to BA, and I'm glad I did - overall it was a much better experience (again, largely due to some exceptional cabin crew, but the product had improved)

So my point (which has gone off at several tangents - sorry) is that business class is a premium offering - and therefore standards SHOULD be considerably higher. I agree that complaining for complaining's sake (to get free miles etc) is bad news [V] - but where an airline has not met expectations, then the passenger has a right to be dissatisfied - and to voice that dissatisfaction.

Hopefully no personal offence will be taken by this post (as previously mentioned, I think the vast majority of VS staff & crew I have met are fantastic - you only have to look at Ryanair for examples of the opposite extreme). But that doesn't mean that passengers should have to suffer in silence when the Company fails to provide a quality product.

[honey lamb]

quote: I think the vast majority of VS staff & crew I have met are fantastic - you only have to look at Ryanair for examples of the opposite extreme
Sorry but I have to take exception to that statement. I'm no apologist for Ryanair. I dislike Michael O'Leary and his business methods but I am in the position that to fly to some areas I have no alternative but to use them. I find it does exactly what it says on the tin - gets me from A to B quickly.

In each area the ground staff are outsourced and are generally competent and pleasant to deal with. With regard to the cabin crew I find them pleasant and hard-working. They have a lot to do in the short space of time of their flights and I have found that the worst of them is a lot better than the worst of the crew I have had to deal with in some of my VS flights. To say that Ryanair crew are the opposite of fantastic simply because they are Ryanair crew is both unfair and unkind

OK, my apologies - clearly I didn't avoid the personal offence after all...

The key word I used was 'examples' - I wasn't suggesting ALL Ryanair staff & crew are bad; it's a case of personal experience.

Like you, I have to use Ryanair - to visit my family in Italy, and some crew are clearly very good. However the worst standards of customer service I have witnessed at 30,000 feet have been on Mr O'Leary's airline - from seeing old ladies barked at to take their seats, to seeing absolutely no regard or concern for passengers with disabilities (my brother included), and to seeing absolute apathy in the event of a delay.

This is their business model, and yes I know they're cheap (although not THAT cheap anymore), no-frills etc - you get what you pay for. But some of the behaviour I have seen on Ryanair contrasts starkly with the (so far) consistently very good service I have seen on VS. Sorry again to have caused offence.

I was told I would get 10K for an SFO flight not having any foot rests for the first row in PE. Only got 5K, rang to ask for the remaining 5K, got some scoffing at the other end, and an apology when the agent read the notes and immediately added the missing 5K.

Looks like 5K is the standard, and the FSM has the option to enhance it depending on the circumstances.

Mark

This turned in to a hot one didn't it.

My experience from my inoperable suite was I was offered 50K miles take it or leave it at first. What I wanted was the difference in cash between what I paid for and what was actually supplied. With much support from V-Flyer I ended up with a refund of the flight and was told I could keep my miles even when I offered them back. My argument was that I paid in cash for a product and got a different one that had I opted for would have cost less. If I had paid in miles as I have for my next flight the miles refunded would have sufficed.

Not specifying the OP here who lets face it was only asking, I do agree with Pfieffer to an extent and I imagine the huge number of pax that are looking for some excuse to 'make a claim' no matter how spurious is why it is so difficult to be recompensed or taken seriously when people actually do have something to complain about.

Just like there are a number of people who claim benefits for a lazy ache in the back there are a %age of travellers who make it their mission to complain n claim even before they board the flight.

I think the post by prieffer pretty muchs mirrors the experience I have had with customer relations in the past. And maybe it's a suitable responce to an economy passenger.

But for the premium that is paid to fly Upper (and I am yet to fly there) I would expect everything to be just so. For me a trip in upper will be a special occasion that we will have saved hard for, and if for any reason it aint right, I sure as hell will want compensating.......

We got 20K for broken TV screen on both of our seats (PE from San Fran) after refusing the onboard 25 each on the duty free.