BA refurbing 747 and adding even more J seats

As per the title BA is to refurb 18 747 and at the same time increase CW capacity to 86 seats (plus the existing 14 F ). These aircraft will be used on the east coast routes and ignoring the argument of whether you personally like CW or crowed cabins I wonder if VS is missing a trick here by firstly loosing the capacity of 747 from LHR and secondly will BA being able to flood the market (extra 100,000 seats per annum) with the high capacity aircraft hurting the VS model of less seats available therefore in theory less lower priced bucket seats.

Well the demand's clearly there - VS have recently added a 5th daily JFK after all, and you rarely hear reports of empty J cabins on the JFK route on either airline so I suspect BA will fill the seats with new business rather than extract business from VS.

I guess the danger is if there's another financial crash or 9/11 that decimates business travel, BA are stuck with a fleet of ageing four engined planes with a lot more J seats they can't fill. Unlikely though, and the route network's big enough to match 'Super-J' with demand as required.

I'm pleased about this news - because I love the 747s!

But seriously, I'm am happy to see more CW seats as it may keep prices keen, but also likelihood of finding reward seats in CW may bebetter (to US East coast, that is).

And, the 747 is my preferred way to cross the Atlantic!

Incidentally, I was really surprised to see that my flights to BOS in Aug are on a 747...I was fully expting yet another 777, and didn't know that there was such demand (3 flights a day?).

Any idea on timing for this Paul?

please could you tell me were this info came from Many Thanks

BA announced before Christmas that, starting this summer, they were refreshing the cabins (New IFE/Seat Covers/Carpets/Curtains) of 18 747s.

They are the newest airframes with the 70 Club World seat configuration.

Also, some of the older 747s still in service with Hi-J config (70 CW Seats) are being re-configured to the Mid-J (52 Club World) seat layout, and these aircraft will not get the cabin refresh.

BA announced before Christmas that, starting this summer, they were refreshing the cabins (New IFE/Seat Covers/Carpets/Curtains) of 18 747s.

They are the newest airframes with the 70 Club World seat configuration.

Also, some of the older 747s still in service with Hi-J config (70 CW Seats) are being re-configured to the Mid-J (52 Club World) seat layout, and these aircraft will not get the cabin refresh.

Moving some hi-J to Mid-J is how they are gaining the extra seats for super hi-J.

The demand for business on east coast routes, especially LON-NYC outstrips what BA/AA can currently provide.

.. I guess the danger is if there's another financial crash or 9/11 that decimates business travel.....

On dear God, please never let that latter statement (reference 9/11) ever happen again

The refurbs start in Sept and the info is reported to have come from a internal BA pilots magazine. With LHR slots likely to still be at a premium for many years to cine I would have thought this was a great opportunity for VS to go head to head with BA especially on the NYLON routes and to do that they need bigger aircraft.

Do they? The US legacy airlines seem to be doing ok flying knackered old 767s (and sometimes even 757s) across the pond. And BA seems to be holding its own against EK, QR, QF etc on the UAE routes without the need to use A380s.

Success on a route isn't necessarily dictated by capacity. BA will always be a far bigger airline than VS and will no doubt easily fill their new Super J jumbos. If VS feel the need to add more capacity to JFK as a result they can find the slots somehow but, as a much smaller airline, they clearly feel flying smaller, more cost effective aircraft is right for them. And there'll undoubtedly be some people who prefer a more intimate J experience. Being one of 84 or 86 passengers doesn't feel very exclusive (although I guess it's not meant to - that's what F is for).

[Darren Wheeler]

I thought BA, along with other airlines, had announced that they were going to get rid of their 747 fleets as most are nudging the 100,000 hour mark. BNLL was recently written of after a building jumped in front of the wing at JNB

.....BNLL was recently written of after a building jumped in front of the wing at JNB

Darren, I've got to reply to that last comment. At 11.20pm uk time I now honestly have got a fit of the giggles. You have a wicked sense of humour

ps hope no-one was hurt though.

I thought BA, along with other airlines, had announced that they were going to get rid of their 747 fleets as most are nudging the 100,000 hour mark. BNLL was recently written of after a building jumped in front of the wing at JNB

While BA are reducing (and have already reduced) their 747 fleet, 747's will remain in the fleet for many more years. They are looking to replace their 747's with aircraft with 747 capacity or greater.

While BA are reducing (and have already reduced) their 747 fleet, 747's will remain in the fleet for many more years. They are looking to replace their 747's with aircraft with 747 capacity or greater.

It wouldn't surprise me if BA ordered more A380s but almost certainly it'll be buying 777Xs in years to come when the 747s do finally wing their way to the deserts of SW America.

For BA to do this though is a sign of high confidence in its ability to lure premium passengers. VS on the other hand is downsizing despite shifting more resource to the US from other markets. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the restructuring and profitability strategy is successful, will VS start to grow again?

This move, and the recent changes to BAEC, make it very clear that BA's strategy is to concentrate on premium passengers at the expense of those on a budget.

By cutting Y capacity on its flagship route and making it much harder for Y passengers to earn miles and status, it's basically saying "we're only interested in people with lots of money".

Which is all well and good until something else happens - which it no doubt will at some point - that significantly reduces corporate travel. So while it's a strategy that'll pay off in the short term while the economy's on the up, no doubt keeping the shareholders happy, long term it may be more risky as with any high end brand.

Only time will tell but as the NYLON route is the most coveted in the industry and the ability that BA will have to be able to offer even better corporate rates with the increase in capacity, I see this as a full on assault against the other two airline alliance operating this route. The legacy airlines are catching up and AA will have all nearly new 77W on this route. The route to Europe where older planes are not as important as the NYLON route and and generally poorly served i.e. one flight a day. As for the economy cabin situation I am sure that BA have done there sums and with the number of dailys on this route they will have sufficient capacity. How many trip reports do we see where capacity in economy is less that 75% but the premium cabins are almost full.

I would love to see the old VS really challenging for this increase and as for shareholders Delta have a reputation for being quite ruthless i.e. the recent culling of eastern route

Virgin will not be able to increase their capacity with the 787's. They've given up on the Far East and there could be more to come. BA are seeing a 7 % year on year increase in premium traffic so this move is smart.

[Darren Wheeler]

Virgin will not be able to increase their capacity with the 787's. They've given up on the Far East and there could be more to come.

"given up"? Only Tokyo has closed, mainly because they cannot compete with the move to Haneda. Hong Kong and Shanghai are still going with both going 787 soon.

The 787 is a fair old capacity cut over the A346 isn't it though?

.....BNLL was recently written of after a building jumped in front of the wing at JNB

Apparently, it was broken up this week