This is the main V-Flyer Forum for general discussion of everything related to flying with Virgin-branded travel companies.
#909564 by VirginXC
06 Sep 2015, 07:48
Apologies this is a long thread - but I wanted to share what is most likely my past experience with VS.

I had a really bad experience whilst waiting to board the VS020 SFO to LHR on 2nd September 2015. It all started whilst being in the SFO Clubhouse before the flight.

Both my partner and I had just completed our first ever real holiday by ourselves since we had been together (3 years!!) where we didn’t have family or friends in tow with us. We had a fantastic week in SFO and the highlight was a full day hire of the GPS guided Gocar’s to get around the city. If anyone is going anytime soon consider hiring one of these - they were so much fun!

Upon our return we arrived at the airport to check in as normal and entered the clubhouse around 14:30. We are creatures of routine so we usually order a couple of drinks first followed by the CH burger or something more local if it tickles our fancy. By the time 4:15 had come around we had eaten and consumed a few cocktails (5 each) along with plenty of water conscious that I’ll get dehydrated very quickly onboard.

On our 5th drink our server (who was excellent and very attentive may I note!) advised us that the CH Manager wanted to authorise any further alcohol consumption by us and would see us under a separate visit. Both of us were shocked by this and was the first time we had come across this with VS. At this point - she advised that she was very happy with us and didn’t have any issues in servicing our request for more drinks.

The CH Manager came over around 10 minutes after this and advised us that he wouldn’t be serving us any more cocktails. He proceeded to talk over me and allowed me no opportunity to contribute to his one sided conversation with me. Needless to say, I advised him to leave us alone and that his conversation was going no where with us.

He came back another 5 minutes later to re-address us, reinstating his concerns he had with some passengers a couple of weeks back that had caused some issues onboard a flight. At this point I had to raise my voice and asked him to listen to me. To his benefit - thats exactly what he did - after some persuasion. I told him that he had judged me guilty before gathering the circumstances and that he shouldn’t judge me by other peoples actions. I advised him that I work for one of the largest airport operators in the UK and am fully aware of the sensitive nature of alcohol and flying and how this can be a concern for staff and passengers.

He came back 5 minutes later (for a third time) with champagne for us both and advised that he should’ve considered the circumstances before making the decision that he did. By this time, 17 people (yes - I counted them!) around us were fully privileged to all these conversations and had witnessed them first hand - which were absolutely unnecessary and avoidable in the first place. 3 out of the 17 were in the nose of the aircraft with us which made this embarrassing and humiliating experience even worse.

Our departing words from the clubhouse were him telling us he needed to go home for a ‘hot shower’ of which diplomatically - I advised we all need one of them sometimes.

Were both 6’2 burley lads with broad shoulders and take part in a lot of sport and we handle our alcohol extremely well. Once onbaord, we spoke to the FSM who acknowledged this and had no issue with us, to the point where she actively encouraged us to enjoy what was left of our holiday onboard the flight home.

I’m 9 years VS Gold through Upper travel with VS and I think I’ve just taken my last flight with them. It’s just a good job this didn’t happen to someone else where it was maybe their first flight with them. I kicked off on Twitter at the time from the CH in SFO through sheer frustration and embarrassment, and was advised to fill in a complaints form, of which by the reaction on Twitter - I’m not sure I’ll be taken seriously with my issue.

We flew back on Cosmic Girl and to give a fair account - the aircraft is on its last legs inside. It wasn’t an Upper Class experience with ripped seat covers, what appeared to be endless amounts of ‘tippex’ paint job cover ups and dirty suites/floors. I’m not sure who at Crawley towers thought it was a good idea (or even a premium experience) for crew to set up meal services on trolleys by doors in the galley areas, where it was a disarray of food/drink all over the floor, buckets full of used china and general disorganised chaos.

It appeared that Lanson is no longer a provider of champagne anywhere on the VS network, where in fact Valdo Prosecco is on offer at the SFO CH that I usually buy for £6.66 (30% off special offer) at my local co-op. On my last flight 4 weeks ago to JFK with VS (Upperclass) I asked the crew for a coffee and was promptly told that I wouldn’t get it due to the commencement of the meal service... And again - that was only one of the faults with this flight.

We actually flew out to SFO with BA and the service we experienced was completely different to that offered by VS. This has been the case for the past few flights I’ve taken with BA.

What is happening with this airline??
#909565 by WPIL
06 Sep 2015, 08:36
I think fair play to the Club House Manager in bringing the subject up. He was probably taken to task over the recent incident as he would be ultimately responsible (well apart from the PAX themselves) if people had got drunk in the clubhouse. It looks like he then made the judgement that as two burly lads that you would be able to hold your ale and got you some champagne. I have had this same situation happen twice before whilst flying on work trips and have to admit that in both cases it was entirely justified as there were me member of the group who were consuming far too much and would then later play up on the flight. I can remember the Silverjet lounge manager telling them that Alcohol had a far greater effect at 30,000 only to be laughed at and shouted orders for more champagne, very embarrassing.

As far as the plane is concerned, looks like you were on one of the Heathrow 747s which are coming to the end of their life and hopefully VS will compensate you for that part of the service.
#909568 by Neil
06 Sep 2015, 10:04
It sounds like you have already made your mind up about flying VS so I don't really see any point in covering that.

It sounds like your experience in the CH was handled poorly. I don't think the issue was the fact the subject was raised, more that the CH manager should have dealt with it in a more professional manner out of the way of other pax. I imagine his intentions were in the best interests of the airline and you, but for whatever reason it was not handled well by him.

You should definitely contact VS about the issue.
#909575 by Bretty
06 Sep 2015, 11:36
I have previously complained about this manager. I won't go into detail as its posted here, but basically he lied to me and my partner in order to get us to move seats in favour of PAX with higher status. When I found him out I complained to VS and they questioned him and he admitted lying, and "looking out for the UNIQ PAX". Therefore, whatever your decision about future flights with VS, they do need to know how poorly he handled the situation, and at the very least you need to ask for him to be reprimanded for his behaviour.

If I were this guy's line manager I wouldn't be happy.
#909589 by Eggtastico
06 Sep 2015, 19:52
IMO the manager should have had a conversation with you about anything.. (like how was your trip, etc.) just so he could gage if you had, had to much alcohol.
5 cocktails isn't that much to anyone who used to drinking. It was probably after your conversation he realised that you wasn't as drunk as he thought you may be.

Also US law is different to UK law - I assume it will be the same in an airport.

I was once told by bar staff in SF that they are liable for my behaviour, as they served me.

Not that she was going to stop serving me, but supposedly a story goes that a barmaid/barman was prosecuted for manslaughter after serving someone who had a bit to much to drink & fell & hit their head on the floor while walking home. No idea if it is true or not, but it was a good explanation of the law.
#909595 by Silver Fox
06 Sep 2015, 21:18
So typical of some people when a little bit of power goes to their head. Especially in the US I find it to be the case. And especially when it is related to alcohol where the attitude is one of a nanny. Well done for not kicking off and you should definitely write in to complain.
#909596 by Smid
06 Sep 2015, 23:04
We've not been on VS for about a year, but on about 6 of our 8 last flights, we felt the onboard crew were being quite stingy with the alcohol across the board. Never had more than a glass of wine and 2 cocktails before boarding, and the fact that they now hide the wine away (and previously if it was left out, they'd reprimand you if you self poured), led to to us thinking that VS wasn't a premium experience.

Never had a problem with a clubhouse though.

I rarely sleep much on flights. I also am not affected as much by alcohol in the air either (go figure, I think its to do with me having low blood pressure, think it was 90/55 last time I measured). Not everyone reacts the same. However, I head off and watch movies. Maybe grab a small doze at best. On VS I rarely do that, I've often got a tiny glass poured and then have to head off and find more shortly.

I flew back with BA from LAX last week in Club. 12 hour flight, I think I got 20 minutes of sleep total. I drank wine all the way through that. Not fast, but refill when I felt the need. Quietly. You are actively encouraged to self serve on there, and I had to grab to keep my wine when they were serving breakfast. Now if BA did a separate lounge from Domestic/Club Europe and Transatlantic, maybe they could offer a lounge like VS. Or something like it. Then I'd be looking to dump those 250K VS miles I've struggled to get the enthusiasm up to use since (and not a decent UC sale to carribean).
#909602 by Eggtastico
07 Sep 2015, 06:58
Silver Fox wrote:So typical of some people when a little bit of power goes to their head. Especially in the US I find it to be the case. And especially when it is related to alcohol where the attitude is one of a nanny. Well done for not kicking off and you should definitely write in to complain.


I would agree if that happened over here in the UK, but we need to remember - this happened in USA who have their own rules & law.

Just part of alcohol liability law, to give you an idea :-
http://business-law.lawyers.com/busines ... uries.html
#909604 by slinky09
07 Sep 2015, 07:36
What a disappointing experience, I too would not be happy. And yes, Cosmic Girl is in a shoddy state, it's a shame that her end of VS life is so poor.
#909623 by Kraken
07 Sep 2015, 15:04
As has already been said to the OP, definitely contact Virgin about this Clubhouse Manager. If memory serves me right, the SFO Clubhouse used to win awards on here hands-down (before LHR was refurbished / extended).

I can understand the "alcohol-watch" stance, but there are ways to go about it. As previously stated, a general chat with the passengers about their stay in the USA is a good way to judge how inebriated they are / are not - and would not cause offence.

I enjoy a drink or two & have never been refused service in any Clubhouse, or onboard a Virgin flight. It's a case of knowing your limits and sticking to them. It sounds like the OP was doing just this.
#910108 by Daniel Armstrong
16 Sep 2015, 07:49
Hey there Virgin XC

Firstly, I totally agree that the manager should not have said anything in a manner that drew unnecessary attention to yourself. That is unprofessional - and he could have asked to pull up a chair and had a chat first to make sure you were ok - judged the situation before making any statement...

However, working in the industry (pubs, clubs etc) for some years I have to say that he may have had a point. If I put myself in his position I would look at the following:

Rate of consumption:
This would have caused me to pay attention to anyone in a bar I worked at - 5 cocktails in 1:45 is pretty good going - even on a Friday Night out in a club. That's 1 drink every 20 mins - and if its cocktails that's a pretty high alcohol volume. If each one contains 3 shots of spirits (in the US these are generally bigger measures than in the UK so lets average at doubles) that's a double shot every 7 mins for almost 2 hours.

Size and Build
Your size is no indication regarding holding your drink - if America has taught me anything its that after 2 beers even the biggest of people can have a little wobble... If I saw someone who was above average build putting drinks away I would be more worried than a smaller person - its the capacity to do damage, deliberate or otherwise. In many instances I have seen above average people who 'can drink' get smashed quickly and tear a place up - this would have gone against you.

Offer an Alternative
This is what he did, get you off the cocktails onto a longer drink or one that is harder to drink at pace. Cocktails pack a punch and generally taste lovely so are drank fast. Champagne, Wine or Beer takes longer to drink with less alcohol - so by giving you this he was aiming to let you continue having fun, merely curbing your overall rate.

Whilst I agree he shouldn't have had a debate with you that became visible to the rest of the CH - he was well within his rights to stop serving you cocktails and request that your move onto something else. There is a cut of point for all people and 5 is a decent amount in a CH environment - if you don't agree, what would you say is a reasonable point to request people to move onto another type of drink? 6, 8, 10..?

Sorry that you didn't enjoy the experience, but being AU for some time (9 years) you an see that even once in a while VS get it wrong - its a shame that 1 experience detracts from 9 years of what I must assumer has been good service?
#910113 by gumshoe
16 Sep 2015, 09:19
+1 to all the above.

Maybe the manager didn't handle this situation as well as he could have but his intentions were laudable.

Drunkenness and associated anti-social behaviour is becoming a huge problem on aircraft. It's bad enough in a typical Wetherspoons on a Friday night but at least you can be chucked out. That's not an option at 38,000 feet and the implications of drunken violence on an aircraft are serious.

All Clubhouse managers and bar staff will be under strict instructions to monitor and limit passengers' alcohol intake to ensure they're not drunk when it's time to board. They're not to know how well each passenger can take their drink so they have to make a judgement call which clearly happened here, even if it could have been handled better.
#910141 by Eggtastico
16 Sep 2015, 15:30
gumshoe wrote:
All Clubhouse managers and bar staff will be under strict instructions to monitor and limit passengers' alcohol intake to ensure they're not drunk when it's time to board.


or more likely to save money.....
#911856 by VirginXC
19 Oct 2015, 20:04
I took your advice and sent in an email of complaint of which I was surprised to receive a reply from CR within a week! However the email received was extremely brief, didn't address my concerns and the agent failed to answer any of my questions regarding an upcoming trip (booked through work)

i think I'm even more annoyed now that my complaint wasn't addressed in any way at all and it's a standard cut and paste reply. Never felt the need to complain about a service received like this ever before, any tips on how I go about getting someone to read my email and consciously respond to it??
#911864 by Bretty
19 Oct 2015, 22:07
If at first you don't succeed, email the CEO: [email protected]
#911877 by casey0999
20 Oct 2015, 10:55
Just another data point, this one in defense of the club manager at SFO:

He has been great in the times I've been in the CH in recent months. Most recently, we were inundated with passengers the other night due to one of the evening flights to LHR being 4+ hours delayed. The manager made several announcements, apologizing for the situation, and diplomatically asking people to basically share the space and seats around them as the SFO club is so small. I think that his tone and demeanor served well to greatly improve the general mood in the clubhouse.

And, to the other point, whether for legal reasons or otherwise, I don't think it was hugely out of line to at least have the discussion with someone who has consumed 5 drinks before serving any more. Yes, it could have perhaps been handled more discreetly, but I'd give him a pass on this one.
#911890 by jspring
20 Oct 2015, 14:00
VirginXC wrote:I took your advice and sent in an email of complaint of which I was surprised to receive a reply from CR within a week! However the email received was extremely brief, didn't address my concerns and the agent failed to answer any of my questions regarding an upcoming trip (booked through work)

i think I'm even more annoyed now that my complaint wasn't addressed in any way at all and it's a standard cut and paste reply. Never felt the need to complain about a service received like this ever before, any tips on how I go about getting someone to read my email and consciously respond to it??


I had a disappointing experience on VS24 a few months ago and in fairness to Virgin they responded and compensated for the experience. Whilst some of the a/c are on their last legs, personally I still fly with Virgin for the service and in some respect the hope that in the not so distant future they will revamp the UC cabin again. I remember when it was introduced in 2003 after the old snake bed style UC cabin.

As some have pointed out america are sh** hot on alcohol consumption and really anything when you are airside nowadays, but whilst that can be a defence I agree that the CH manager was overly excessive in the way he treated you. As someone who travels frequently with Virgin too I would not stand for that, and given your status they should be following up a complaint as quick as possible.

Going back to the cabin in tatters topic, I occasionally fly BA to when I cant get on a Virgin flight and some of the flights I have been on have very dated cabins too albeit now this is quite unlikely given the roll out of the new first. We can only hope that Virgin follows suit sometime soon.

Hope this gets resolved for you soon.
#911893 by jensenma
20 Oct 2015, 14:12
for a moment i thought this was a joke. Having 5 coctails, pre-flight asking for more, is beyound the limit of what is within reason and safe for travel. I would assume that the drinking would continue onboard bringing fellow passengers at risk in case of emergency. In my view the manager acted as he should and thought of the overall safety of the entire flight.

Just my thoughts anyway,

Jensenma
#911903 by Bretty
20 Oct 2015, 18:31
jensenma wrote:for a moment i thought this was a joke. Having 5 coctails, pre-flight asking for more, is beyound the limit of what is within reason and safe for travel. I would assume that the drinking would continue onboard bringing fellow passengers at risk in case of emergency. In my view the manager acted as he should and thought of the overall safety of the entire flight.

Just my thoughts anyway,

Jensenma

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that point of view, it's more the way it was handled, which was, by the OPs account, not very subtly. I don't think anyone is questioning the reasoning, just the lack of discretion used.
#911983 by stuart_f
21 Oct 2015, 22:38
I can't decide if the latter part of this thread is encouraging jokers or just plain trolling. Having more than 4 cocktails in 2 hours makes you a threat to passenger safety? Do try to be just a little bit serious.

Let's concentrate on the SFO lounge.
Virgin Atlantic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 193 guests

Itinerary Calendar