Manchester S25

Next on the MAN schedule chopping boards: ATL and JFK.

ATL will operate 5 weekly and JFK will operate 6 weekly next summer.

This is to accomodate the LAS service into MAN based frames as the LAS frame was a network spare this summer.

This means that MAN drops from 4.5 to 4 based aircraft.

Instead of giving MAN a service to, say, LAX, VS believes daily flights to Accra and Riyadh are more worthwhile—because liberal Saudi Arabia perfectly aligns with the Virgin ethos.

MAN is going backwards and the current VS leadership are making questionable decisions. My main issue is the current network from MAN is super limited so if I wanted to go somewhere new like LA or Mexico I would have to go on another airline. I gave TUI a go in April of this year with flights on the 787 to Turkey. VS seems to operate MAN to a different stranded to Heathrow outsourcing a lot of things. We have talked about the lack of Clubhouse on here a lot. But moving the schedule around as much as they do is part of the problem so anyone with a connecting flight at ATL or JFK gets inconsistent connection times. My only issue with aircraft is they are reducing the Upper Class availability year on year at MAN so it makes using vouchers and miles even harder. I prefer the A330 because it has more seats in Upper over the A350 leisure config.

To be honest, moving the schedule around is frustrating enough for those who are simply flying from MAN on an O&D basis. The last few times I've flown VS from MAN or was scheduled to fly with VS from MAN, the flights ended up being different to what was initially booked. One time it just made a long day even longer due to a 2 hour drive upon arrival at MCO.

The next time I do book with VS (whenever that may be) I'm certain what my flight is on the day will be different to what I initially booked. For some, that won't inspire confidence.

Just announce the schedule when opening for bookings and stick with it. I don't understand why that's difficult to achieve or, more pertinently, why it seems to affect the MAN schedule.

As for aircraft, are VS expecting fleet availability to be tight next summer with A330neo deliveries and A330-300 withdrawals, or are they simply not prepared to tie up spare capacity at MAN?

I really don't understand VS's strategy at all these days. Going back pre-pandemic, they were clearly the market leaders in Orlando, with both Virgin Holidays and Virgin Atlantic having a big share, that feels like that position has sunk back, probably because of the demise of Thomas Cook and the cooling of US tourism, they have not had to be as competitive to retain their market share.

I am not as convinced as others are that Manchester is likely to have a massive route network operating out of it, and it needs to be routes where O&D traffic is high, which let's face it for the most part is the bucket and spade routes such as MCO/LAS/JFK and BGI. I think given the Indian diaspora that exists around the North, I am very shocked that the DEL flight that was scheduled twice has never taken off, but again it just launches a whole series of questions around what exactly are VS trying to do in general. I mean Ghana and Saudi, no one had those on their bingo card for 2025, although I know from friends inside that Accra has been playing on Galley FM for about 6 months now.

[mitchja]

SQ recently announced they are ending their MAN>IAH flights from March 2025.

Be interesting to see what loads are currently like for TATL routes on both VS and EI from MAN; though I suspect they won’t be close to LHR load figures.

MAN used to publish monthly pax departure stats to various US cities but I cant find those now?

I found the data for the USA load factors
ATL April 81% May 85% June 85%
IAH April 42% May 38% June 43%
JFK April 74% May 78% June 82%
LAS June 68%
MCO April 70% May 77% June 59%

Keep in mind MCO and JFK both EI and VS operate the route.

This is all a worry, the main reason that I choose years ago to focus on VA miles/points rather than BA was because of the MAN flights!

Just anecdotal, but we flew back from MCO to MAN last Sunday on the 350 and one of the cabin crew told me that whereas UC and PE were full, EC was half empty. I suspect that TUI and Aer Lingus are picking up a lot of the EC bookings and I wonder if this is considered for future plane configurations?

I found the data for the USA load factors
ATL April 81% May 85% June 85%
IAH April 42% May 38% June 43%
JFK April 74% May 78% June 82%
LAS June 68%
MCO April 70% May 77% June 59%

Keep in mind MCO and JFK both EI and VS operate the route.

Point to flag on IAH is that this does not include passengers booked through from SIN-IAH, it is only the MAN-IAH passengers (ie the aircraft will be more than 40% full).

[mitchja]

None of those load figures are very encouraging especially MCO .

I guess July + Aug figures will be the litmus test but it highlights the current difficult conditions for airlines op'ing TATL flights at MAN.

With MAN-IAH, it's worth noting that SQ are completely pulling out of IAH and are not serving it via another destination or even non-stop, though SIN-MAN-IAH isn't the shortest routing anyway for those doing the full journey. It would be interesting to know what the average LF is for the full journey.

On the flip side, MAN-SIN is going up from 5x weekly to daily for Summer 2025 and they are introducing their 'Book the Cook' service for passengers in Business and PE: https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/au/f ... -the-cook/

With Emirates and Qatar serving MAN triple daily, Etihad going up to double daily, as well as Turkish, two Chinese airlines (Hainan and Juneyao to Beijing and Shanghai respectively), Cathay to HKG and a few others, it shows there's a strong market for those travelling east.

None of those load figures are very encouraging especially MCO .

I guess July + Aug figures will be the litmus test but it highlights the current difficult conditions for airlines op'ing TATL flights at MAN.

It shows how the US market in general isn't as strong as it once was for a whole host of reasons (weak GBP:USD rate, increased costs at destination esp. Orlando, cost of living in general, etc.), especially for leisure travellers. Maybe just as well they don't have those 747s anymore going by the load factors.

This is all a worry, the main reason that I choose years ago to focus on VA miles/points rather than BA was because of the MAN flights!

Just anecdotal, but we flew back from MCO to MAN last Sunday on the 350 and one of the cabin crew told me that whereas UC and PE were full, EC was half empty. I suspect that TUI and Aer Lingus are picking up a lot of the EC bookings and I wonder if this is considered for future plane configurations?

Don't forget cargo loadings too, though I've no idea what the volumes being flown are like to/from MAN.

I'm sure VS will be content with Y being half-empty providing Upper and PE are full. It is, after all, where the real money is made and it probably explains why some on here have been unable to get reward seats. However, the sparse Y loadings don't surprise me if reports about pricing are anything to go by on top of other well-documented factors.

JFK and ATL performing very strongly. LAS is too, especially considering it's in its nascency.

Note that the EDI flights are moving on to LHR based aircraft, which would theoretically free up 2 flights a week in the MAN schedules. Knowing Virgin, they would rather give those to Heathrow, but in an ideal world I'd like to think a DEL route would be added.

VS just need to right size the aircraft and schedule for MAN. Having 2 flights a day to MCO on the A350 is overkill really. They would be better sending that second flight somewhere else like the West Coast or even India. I also think the A330 would be better for the LAS route as many of you have reported half empty economy cabins. Time will tell what VS do next the leadership should come visit MAN more so they understand the market better.

What are the chances of getting an entire row of 3 seats in economy for myself midweek in October on MAN - MCO?

VS just need to right size the aircraft and schedule for MAN. Having 2 flights a day to MCO on the A350 is overkill really. They would be better sending that second flight somewhere else like the West Coast or even India. I also think the A330 would be better for the LAS route as many of you have reported half empty economy cabins. Time will tell what VS do next the leadership should come visit MAN more so they understand the market better.

Am I right in thinking an Upper seat or two has to be blocked off as a crew rest if A330s are used to LAS given they don't have crew bunks?

[mitchja]

I believe that is one of the reasons why VS don't use the A333's on longer routes because of the lack of crew rest on them. I think there is flight deck crew rest but nothing else?

On both the ATL & JFK routes, I've often seen VS crew using unoccupied Upper Class seats as crew rest on the A333's.

I've no idea if other VS A/C do have cabin crew rest or not?

Yes I’ve seen crew rest in UC too. On my flight back from MCO 3 years ago. My seat got switched at boarding gate and later realised it was switched for cabin crew rest.

The Neos have their own crew rest area downstairs, was shown on a recent flight to Tampa last year.

Just an FYI the check in zone at MAN for VS has moved again from zone A to zone E. Due to the ongoing construction work,