Anyone know the recovery plan - Help Please

I am currently stranded in New York on a Virgin Holiday - due to fly home on 17th April. I am not getting any info from the reps here that makes any sense at all. I have checked my booking at it looks like I have been booked on a flight 1st May (which has made me distraught) I cant understand why it will take so long to get me back home. Especially as people are able to fly from today!
The reps has said (but I heard a fellow stranded passenger tell him this) that virgin were putting on extra flights and that I may be told there is an earlier flight for me?

I am so upset, mainly because I cant get any information. Can anyone help?
Sarah

Hi Sarah

I am afraid that I do not know any more than is stated on the Virgin web site.

Good news should be that UK airports & flights in & out seem to be getting back close to schedule very quickly, with Virgin taking no new bookings at present I would think you must have a very good chance of getting on a flight back to the UK much sooner than you are being told.

Sorry I do not have any practical information.

Good luck

oldboy

[Pete]

Sorry to hear you're distraught - this must be a nightmare for all involved.

With regards to the flight date, you may be able to get on an earlier flight, but the reason you're currently booked so far in the future is the huge amount of disruption and number of people that have been effected. For every aircraft that didn't fly, that'll be another 300-odd people that need to be found a space for, when with average loads at 85%, there are only about 50 seats or less on each future flights. So every cancelled flight could take about 6 days to clear, and with 6 days of cancellations, you can do the math.

However, early on in the disruption Virgin put in place measures like not selling new seats, and not re-booking (initially) people who hadn't started their outbound, so as to free up as many spaces as possible. They also operated most of last nights flights as 'delayed' rather than scheduled operation, again, clearing a chunk of the backlog. So whilst the situation looks grim, it may get better now operations have actually started.

The community on V-Flyer here will help with as much info as we can!

Pete

Thanks for the replys - I guess what upsets me, is that the people who havent been stranded at all with bookings in the next few days are getting home before me. Which doesnt feel great and feels really unfair. I also dont understand who gets priority on the available seats - as there isnt any transparancy of information.
I know this is unprecedented and I'm sure people are working hard to get people like me home, but I'm worried about money, my job and my home.
Thanks
Sarah

[Pete]

Priority for available space on a flight has unfortunately been a bit confused by the length of the disruption.

People who hold a confirmed reservation don't get turfed off, and it's pretty much first-come, first-served for the seats that are left. That means if you were one of the earliest flights to get effected, say on Friday, but then were re-booked for Monday, when that didn't go, you were at the back of the queue again.

Whether that's fair or not is a moot point, since EU regulations mean that airlines can't deny boarding to someone with a confirmed ticket without facing compensation payments. So although it may be unfair to see someone going home when you're stranded and waiting to get home, it's really the only way airlines can operate.

[honey lamb]

Thanks for the replys - I guess what upsets me, is that the people who havent been stranded at all with bookings in the next few days are getting home before me. Which doesnt feel great and feels really unfair. I also dont understand who gets priority on the available seats - as there isnt any transparancy of information.

Sarah

Sarah, I am sorry for your predicament and those of everyone else who has been stranded. I can understand your distress at the apparent unfairness that people who haven't been stranded get home before you but the way airlines work is that people who had already had reservations on these flights get to keep them and people who are stranded are given any vacant seats on those flights. While you might wonder why you don't get priority over existing passengers the fact is that if they were offloaded in favour of you, then they too would have to be accommodated and compensated so it does not make economic sense for the airlines.

[Decker]

and that's the key point regretfully - accommodated AND compensated whereas the stranded pax only get accommodation.

and that's the key point regretfully - accommodated AND compensated whereas the stranded pax only get accommodation.

not according to the fco:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-liv ... al-advice/

[Pete]

WG - the point would be that the volcano disruption was a natural disaster, so therefore accommodated, but not compensated. If Virgin were to offload you to make way for another passenger, that would be their cause for you to miss your flight, therefore as Decker points out, accommodated and compensated under EU regs.

[Decker]

Sorry the differentiator was meant to be compensation. As in stranded pax get accommodation and subsistence but no compensation. To IDB someone they'd need to provide accommodation, subsistence etc AND compensation.

Stranded in New York. Virgin are putting revenue before repatriation. Original flight 15 April, now 2nd May. However a new booking can be made for 1st May. This is unfair, unacceptable and unreasonable - Virgin are in a very weak position viz-a-viz hiding behind EU regulation to deny compensation for those passengers in the same position as me.

At least VS do seem to be paying out accommodation and subsistence costs. Ryanair are refusing to pay out anything!

I can see that it is hard for those caught up in this, not just the passengers but also many in the travel & tourism industries, many of whom do not know if their job will survive. The costs of this natural disaster are enormous and the sector was already struggling. We still don't know how great the extra cost of engine maintenance will be. I think we will soon see a different form of volcano fallout.

It must also be hard for those staff on the front-line trying to deal with these problems and the unprecedented workload of trying to deal with hundreds of thousands of displaced and naturally very upset customers.

The bottom line is that there is no way there is sufficient resources to deal with this in any seemingly satisfactory way - not enough aircraft, not enough seats, not enough customer service agents answering phones, not enough cash to pay out compensation as well as accommodation and no support or bailout from government.

We just have to hope we all get through it. At least the volcano seems to be giving us a very big break - it could have lasted very much longer.

For every aircraft that didn't fly, that'll be another 300-odd people that need to be found a space for, when with average loads at 85%, there are only about 50 seats or less on each future flights. So every cancelled flight could take about 6 days to clear, and with 6 days of cancellations, you can do the math.

Funny you should mention this. I was walking around Seaworld yesterday on a freebie when I did exactly these calculations using these exact figures. I was quietly chuckling to myself, dreaming of another 36 days out in the Sunshine State, when Mrs S said that I should keep these thoughts to myself !

Managed to get hold of the VS Au line for the first time in 6 days whilst walking around EPCOT - not a freebie as I have Disney Annual Passes (that $30 PAYG phone from Walmart was worth it).

It appears the sitauation is very 'dynamic'

When I got through they said there were 2 seats from MCO on 28th and 1 on 29th (bearing in mind I was due to fly from JFK).

Then there were 3 seats from JFK on 28th on VS10. 2 minutes later the 2 from MCO had gone.

There were a few U/C seats available for 24th that he said I could upgrade to, but as I have used nearly 1/2 million miles in about 6 months I am running short - never know, may get an op up LOL

I said I would take the 3 from JFK - 1 minute later he said 3 had become available on VS10 on 27th !

Mrs S and Miss S
Me

xxSarahxx - is the issue with Virgin Holidays ?

Mustang, based on my conversation today I am surprised they are saying so long for you. Maybe worth giving them another call.

Guys definitely keep calling reservations if you have a date in May. Some seats are freeing up out of NYC for flights over the next few days. Also if you do need to get back DO go to the airport and standby for the flight. We had a lot of people do this today for our VS flights and most were able to be accommodated once check in closed for confirmed passengers, i'm not saying this will be the case tomorrow but it is definitely worth a go

The bottom line is that there is no way there is sufficient resources to deal with this in any seemingly satisfactory way - not enough aircraft, not enough seats, not enough customer service agents answering phones, not enough cash to pay out compensation as well as accommodation and no support or bailout from government.

Absolutely, every business organizes itself for its normal peaks and troughs, the unpronounceable volcano issue (UVI) has created mayhem - it really is best to try to chill and get through it. But it seems things are changing rapidly, so you also have to be in contact with VS frequently to look at options.

[Pete]

Stranded in New York. Virgin are putting revenue before repatriation. Original flight 15 April, now 2nd May. However a new booking can be made for 1st May. This is unfair, unacceptable and unreasonable - Virgin are in a very weak position viz-a-viz hiding behind EU regulation to deny compensation for those passengers in the same position as me.

I don't think Virgin are hiding behind EU regulations at all. EU regulations provide for very reasonable accommodation and food costs (for the majority of passengers, way in excess of whatever Virgin are recouping on the price of the ticket), and it's not unfair and unreasonable of them to allow passengers already holding a confirmed ticket on a flight to keep that seat. If I read between the lines, it would appear that you are suggesting Virgin should deny boarding for all passengers holding those tickets until everyone is back home.

Given that would then ripple the problem through to the next person who has been offloaded, and they would be entitled to €600 under EU regs along with their board and accommodation, let's do the calculation.

Assume for the purposes of this simplified work through, the capacity of an average Virgin Atlantic aircraft is about 375 (it's actually 308 on the A346 and anywhere between 344-452 for the 747s), and on the days effected they were flying at about 85% capacity, so call it 320 people per plane not getting home from Thursday through Tuesday over the last week, over 30 operating routes. That's 6 days x 30 routes x 320 people = 57,600 passengers to find seats for. These calculations, by the way, are just the one-way back to the UK.

Ok, so if you cleared all future flights, and you filled them to capacity with stranded passengers, then you could get 57,600 / 375 /30 = everyone home in just over 5 days (5.12, but let's not get too pedantic here). But hang on, you've now got those 5 days worth of passengers who need to get home too - and this time you've not only got to pay their food and accommodation, but €600 each compensation. So that's 48,000 new people who have been displaced, each getting €600 = €28.8 million. Ok, so going through the motions again, you can get those people back in just over 4 days, and you get another compensation bill of €23 million for the 38,400 people you had to throw off flights. It's 3.5 days to clear the next batch, displacing another 33,600 passengers and running up another €20 million bill. And so on, until you've still had about 36 days of disruption, but in the meantime you've run up a national debt's worth of compensation payments, and you've managed to screw up the travel plans of about 1 million people rather than 57, 000.

So throwing people out of confirmed seats is not a sensible or pragmatic solution to the problem. Virgin will surely do all they can to get people home as quickly as possible (it's in their interest, since they're picking up your bills), but calling the way this is being handled unfair, unacceptable and unreasonable is a gross misunderstanding of what is actually happening.

Virgin Atlantic have instated a rule that only they have control of any flights departing before May. That means that if you call your travel agent (even Virgin Holidays) they will hold you a seat after 01MAY. They need to have complete control of these departures and to fill them as much as possible so as such they don't want travel agents holding seats on these flights as back-ups.
If you call Virgin directly or they call you then they can move you onto the first available flight and if you have your contact details in the bookings then Virgin should try to contact you to get you on things.

I know one long haul flight (on another airline) that people would have sold their goolies to get on flew 30% empty in the end last night.

[Pete]

I know one long haul flight (on another airline) that people would have sold their goolies to get on flew 30% empty in the end last night.

Yeah, it would seem that part of the initial problem mopping up the mess if just going to be getting people into spare seats at the last minute when they're not packed and ready to go. I would assume that sort of problem will diminish now we are flying again and people can be contacted and given a bit of warning.

Pete, you have misunderstood. In the last two days I could pay Virgin as a new passenger to fly on 1st May, which is before my repatriation. I was not suggesting for one moment that confirmed pax be booted off in favor of me, as I had read and understood all previous posts. With this in mind, it is unreasonable, unfair etc for Virgin to say they are prioritizing repats over new bookings! Geddit?

I do feel the pain of anyone that is stranded however don't see what more can be done. VS and any other airline do not have anywhere near the resources to get everyone home in the next five days. As was mentioned on the news yesterday really only a government will have the kind of resources needed.

To kick people out of confirmed seats will only drag this issue on for many more months.

This is certainly going to hit the industry hard. I sense that a number of European carriers will have severe financially difficulities as a result of the events in Iceland.

[Neil]

Have you tried calling Virgin again and asking them to move you to the 1st May flight then? If they won't, what reason are they giving?

[Pete]

Pete, you have misunderstood. In the last two days I could pay Virgin as a new passenger to fly on 1st May, which is before my repatriation. I was not suggesting for one moment that confirmed pax be booted off in favor of me, as I had read and understood all previous posts. With this in mind, it is unreasonable, unfair etc for Virgin to say they are prioritizing repats over new bookings! Geddit?

In which case that's a very strange situation indeed, and would be nothing to do with EU regulations. Sorry I misunderstood you.

Are you a direct customer of Virgin Atlantic, or booked through Virgin Holidays or another agent? If it's the former, get on the phone to Virgin Atlantic and get yourself on an earlier flight. They should, and will, put you on the first available flight. If it's the latter, get your agent to give you your PNR and then get onto Virgin Atlantic and explain the situation.

While it may not help much, Virgin have provided some updated information on their website - http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/pa ... /index.jsp

The following bit may be of the most interest:

PLEASE NOTE if you have already been re booked on a flight due to leave in the next 5 days i.e. up to and including Monday 26 April 2010 do not call us to be rebooked again to an earlier flight

which suggests a call would be worth your while, if you have been given a later date.

Full text below:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR PASSENGERS FROM CANCELLED FLIGHTS WHO ARE WAITING TO RETURN HOME

Now that UK Airspace has reopened and planes are flying again all our energy is focussed on our recovery plan to bring people back home. Because so many people are stranded all over the world there are simply not enough aeroplanes or crew to accommodate them all quickly, we are however planning to operate special repatriation flights over the next few days.

Seats on these special repatriation flights, along with any space that we do have on our normal scheduled flights, is being allocated to stranded passengers on a strict priority basis. Rest assured we are also endeavouring to secure seats on other carriers over the next few days where possible

Who will get away first?

We have established a boarding priority policy based upon our legal and contractual obligations along with passenger welfare needs as follows:

Priority 1

On normal scheduled services the passengers who were originally booked on these scheduled flights

Any spare capacity on scheduled services and space on special repatriation flights will then be allocated as follows:

Priority 2

Passengers whose needs have been assessed by our passenger health professionals as being a medical emergency, followed by passengers who had a special assistance request noted in their booking prior to their departure from the UK.

Priority 3

School groups and those that have been sleeping in the airport.

Priority 4

Passengers who have been delayed the longest i.e. 14/15 April first followed by 16th 17th 18th 19th 20th and 21st April 2010 respectively.

Why we can't prioritise the people who have been stranded for the longest time?

We understand why our passengers may feel upset about this situation however as much as we would prefer to fly the passengers who have been delayed the longest on the first available flight we cannot "bump off" passengers with confirmed bookings in order to accommodate stranded passengers as this will perpetuate the issue. In addition we are bound by strict legal and contractual requirements governing Denied Boarding situations.

How we will contact stranded passengers to advise you of your new flight details?

Our airport staff (and where appropriate Virgin Holidays staff) have kept a list of all passengers who have already been in contact with them. Passengers on this list will be contacted locally and advised if they have been allocated a seat on a special repatriation flight or a scheduled service leaving in the next few days.

If you have not already made contact with either a local Virgin Holidays representative or a Virgin Atlantic staff member and given them your contact details

Please give us your details by e mail to

[email protected]

With the following details

Your booking reference number
(It will be a 6 character with a mixture of numbers and letters e.g. BJVC1X)

Or

Your 7 digit Virgin Holidays Reference number


Full names of all the passengers in your party


Your ORIGINAL date of departure


Your ORIGINAL flight number


Your current contact details
E mail
Mobile phone number
Land line i.e. hotel or other temporary accommodation
You must provide us with at least one of these contact options, preferably two.



Address of temporary accommodation


Alternatively you can telephone us with the above details on

0844 209 2771

If you are calling from outside the UK +44844 209 2771

This number is for the use of stranded passengers only. We respectfully ask other callers NOT to block these lines if you are not one of these passengers

PLEASE NOTE if you have already been re booked on a flight due to leave in the next 5 days i.e. up to and including Monday 26 April 2010 do not call us to be rebooked again to an earlier flight, if we do not contact you it means we cannot accommodate you on flights leaving any earlier than the one you are already booked on.

You will receive an automated acknowledgment to your e mail. We will not however send any further reply. Our local people will contact you if we can get you away on an earlier flight or a special repatriation flight, we will also use the information you provide us with to plan our repatriation service more effectively.

I know that there is some availability for dates in the last few days of April from NYC right now.

You need to present yourself as a standby at the airport for any flight, reservations will tell you not to, but there are turning out so far to be quite a lot of no show passengers on flights departing the US. A lot of standbys have gotten out by just turning up when check-in opens. Some flights unfortunately have even gone out not completely full even after all standbys were cleared.

Reading this thread has made me realise how fortunate we are. We have been stranded in NY since 16th April. I rang VS disruption line a.m. 16th and was given PE seats for today (22nd). Now checked in on line.
I can really sympathise with the frustration felt by those still stranded, but have nothing but praise for the treatment I have received from VS in the circumstances