VS27 16/04/2012 - Emergency Landing at LGW.

[Darren Wheeler]

Slow second half of the night so a round up of threads on other sites.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... 6/#menu102

http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcon ... n-lgw.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british- ... ident.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/virgin-a ... smoke.html
*Like most FlyerTalk threads, they do slightly stray at times.*

One common thread through them all is, very poor standards of journalism.

Would anyone have a stab at gtw - mco schedule for the next 10 days now that g-vmeg, is supposed to be going to MCO from LHR todaydue to fly out vs27 next Thursday and scheduled on an airbus now that Beauty Queen is out of action and only Mademoiselle rouge left wonder what I'll get next week as MR has been flying MAN-MCO for several days and I know they swap around between GTW and GLA.

Anyone like to take a guess ?

It is likey the 75 will remain as the A330, with all other flights ex GLA/LGW operated by a LGW 747, of course this is all just speculation and I am sure VS are working hard to get everything operated on schedule and it's currently looking like that should be the case.

I have friends due out to MCO from GLA on 5th May and their seat plan has changed to a 744 from the a333. I am due out on A333 on 9th June which is still showing as a A333.

This should give an indication of possible lay off times for Beauty Queen.

I have been crew for five different airlines now. All airlines train crew to shout commands as loudly as possible and if passengers hesitate at the top of the slide you push them in the small of the back. If there is a pile up at the bottom of the slide you ignore it as the priority is to get passengers out of the aircraft. If the slides are used its serious with the imminent possibility of fire or an explosion etc the crew may have no idea how long they have so they have to get all passengers off the aircraft as quickly as possible. Better a sprained ankle at the bottom of the slide than not get off at all! Can you imagine the adrenaline the crew must have experienced knowing it could be down to them to save 300 peoples lives? So yes shouting may have seemed like screaming as they desperately tried to get people to get to the exits and down the slides as fast as possible. Thankfully the aircraft didn't catch on fire but the crew weren't to know that. We're all appalled at the way the media have taken some passengers comments and blown them out of proportion. The crew did a fantastic job and would just like to say a big thank you to everyone in here for the positive comments - obviously from people who understand how serious it was.

well said virginboy 747...well done to all crew onboard

One little footnote - it's significant that the thread on PPRuNe (mostly populated by, and certainly moderated by, industry insiders) has been moved to "Spectators Balcony" from the "Rumours and News" forum.

This is an incredibly loud message that "this was just another day at the office - -no big news here, move along".

Will now await the AAIB interim report...

I have been crew for five different airlines now. All airlines train crew to shout commands as loudly as possible and if passengers hesitate at the top of the slide you push them in the small of the back. If there is a pile up at the bottom of the slide you ignore it as the priority is to get passengers out of the aircraft. If the slides are used its serious with the imminent possibility of fire or an explosion etc the crew may have no idea how long they have so they have to get all passengers off the aircraft as quickly as possible. Better a sprained ankle at the bottom of the slide than not get off at all! Can you imagine the adrenaline the crew must have experienced knowing it could be down to them to save 300 peoples lives? So yes shouting may have seemed like screaming as they desperately tried to get people to get to the exits and down the slides as fast as possible. Thankfully the aircraft didn't catch on fire but the crew weren't to know that. We're all appalled at the way the media have taken some passengers comments and blown them out of proportion. The crew did a fantastic job and would just like to say a big thank you to everyone in here for the positive comments - obviously from people who understand how serious it was.

Well said and from someone who's job this is!!! - As I said before the media, IMHO, have played a big part in almost damning VS with this. What's to say they also didn't have 10 interviews with pax who were praising the crew and were understanding of the training and the way they acted??

Well said VB. To be honest if you had to stand there waiting until every pax was safely off before you could leave an aircraft that potentially could blow up or incinerate you wouldn't you be shouting at anyone stupid enough to be trying to find their iPad, wallet or lippy ?? I know I would.

It's good to see intelligent people giving kudos to a totally professionally handled situation. Sadly that doesn't include most journalists.

I am flying from JFK this Friday and back to MCO a week later. and am happy to be in the care of well trained staff.

I am very surprised that VS themselves haven't fought back against the crazy media reporting of this incident.

Remember BA38 with the photo call the next day involving the captain and cabin crew in Waterside applauded by all the staff?

I am very surprised that VS themselves haven't fought back against the crazy media reporting of this incident.

Remember BA38 with the photo call the next day involving the captain and cabin crew in Waterside applauded by all the staff?

Hmmm - careful with that one! Remember the way Peter Birkhill was treated after that? (Thankfully, he's now back flying with BA, but Peter and his family went through hell before that came about).

The Hudson ditching is a great example of how to turn public opinion (in my opinion) - perhaps our friends in the US are just better at it that us brits?

VS may feel that whatever they do would be miss-interpreted or twisted by the media, so are just keeping stum...Mr Branson would once have been able to turn this around a la Hudson, but these days?

5 live got Steve Ridgeway on the same day, and he made a valiant attempt, but the interviewer clearly had an agenda and made the most rediculous points that were more or less unanswerable...

I agree with everything Virginboy747 said. The cabin crew have to impress the seriousness of the situation onto the passengers otherwise they'd stop to pick up their duty free etc.

SRB was on the scene after the Pendolino derailment however there was a fatality on that occasion. Perhaps it's like Concorde RIP says, it's another day at the office but in these days with rolling news coverage the press need to fill the space with something. I'm sure VA will have plan to control the press after a major incident but in this instance it wasn't put into place as it wasn't in their definition a major incident.

Interesting post from virginboy, and very helpful to hear a cabin crew member's perceptive.

Here's a question then: if a passenger who hesitates at the top of the slide is physically pushed down by cabin crew, only to - say - break a leg at the bottom, could they sue the airline or the crew member for assault?

Clearly the defence would be that it was necessary to try and preserve lives, but these are litigious times we live in and if someone ended up unable to work because of their injuries, would they have a case?

I've stumbled upon a twitter account from a passenger who was onboard VS27 called @thomaspjackson

In one of his tweets he says that he couldn't get any media to quote him saying that the cabin crew were clear, affirming and professional.

Jkay1982 I am due out next Thursday still showing as an airbus seat plan so I think mad rouge will transfer from Manchester to LGW on the Wednesday as they only run one flight from Manchester on the Thursday I would like to think I would have heard by now if they were gong to change the seating assignment otherwise it will cause chaos at check in

[Neil]

Jkay1982 I am due out next Thursday still showing as an airbus seat plan so I think mad rouge will transfer from Manchester to LGW on the Wednesday as they only run one flight from Manchester on the Thursday I would like to think I would have heard by now if they were gong to change the seating assignment otherwise it will cause chaos at check in

I would be so certain on that. They could still be working on how to reschedule everything.

With the VS75/76 being daily on the A330, compared to the LGW/GLA flights changing between the two usually, it would make more sense to keep the MAN daily flight on the A330 and use the 747's for the other flights. Also, as they do the swap over in MCO usually it could get complicated to change the a/c type between two different UK airports.

I don't see why it would cause any issue a check in, a/c configs change all the time, right up until the day of the flight, so it is something that they will be used to.

Unfortunately non of us know what VS have planned, so we will just have to wait and see

I've stumbled upon a twitter account from a passenger who was onboard VS27 called @thomaspjackson

In one of his tweets he says that he couldn't get any media to quote him saying that the cabin crew were clear, affirming and professional.

That says it all really about the media and how they portray things.

Interestingly one of the guys I work with who was on the flight is adamant they dumped fuel before landing...... :w

I was a passenger on VS27 and have to say that the crew did an amazing job from my perspective. The mere fact that 300 people were safely evacuated from the plane in under 2 minutes is a true testament to the training and competence of the crew. I commend the entire Virgin staff that I came in contact with during the whole ordeal. They were extremely professional and prompt in the time following the evacuation. I felt that the Virgin staff had genuine concern for all passengers and offered a tremendous amount of support to all of us. It was a terrifying experience and not something that anyone can ever imagine unless they have been through it. I never questioned getting on VS127 to FL yesterday and I would absolutely choose Virgin again. Just happy that all are safe - could have been much much worse.

Thank you for posting daybird, it's good to get the views of someone who was on the plane. I hope you are feeling ok.

Gina

edited

Interesting post from virginboy, and very helpful to hear a cabin crew member's perceptive.

Here's a question then: if a passenger who hesitates at the top of the slide is physically pushed down by cabin crew, only to - say - break a leg at the bottom, could they sue the airline or the crew member for assault?

Clearly the defence would be that it was necessary to try and preserve lives, but these are litigious times we live in and if someone ended up unable to work because of their injuries, would they have a case?

Personally I doubt they could, unless it could be proved that they were pushed in an attempt to hurt them.
I remember being told when I did some first aid and defib training that no-one has successfully sued a first aider for giving first aid. In the JV show a cabin crew member said how she knew of someone who was sued for breaking someone's ribs during CPR. (if you don't break the ribs, you're not doing it right) They might of tried to sue, but I doubt it was successful.

Edit: In the UK.

Interesting post from virginboy, and very helpful to hear a cabin crew member's perceptive.

Here's a question then: if a passenger who hesitates at the top of the slide is physically pushed down by cabin crew, only to - say - break a leg at the bottom, could they sue the airline or the crew member for assault?

Clearly the defence would be that it was necessary to try and preserve lives, but these are litigious times we live in and if someone ended up unable to work because of their injuries, would they have a case?

Personally I doubt they could, unless it could be proved that they were pushed in an attempt to hurt them.
I remember being told when I did some first aid and defib training that no-one has successfully sued a first aider for giving first aid. In the JV show a cabin crew member said how she knew of someone who was sued for breaking someone's ribs during CPR. (if you don't break the ribs, you're not doing it right) They might of tried to sue, but I doubt it was successful.

Depends upon where you are!

I know a number of Doctors who are very reluctant to give first aid for medical-legal reasons - they will only step forward if no-one else available and/or they see a life-threatening situation.

Very few pax. on aircraft will use the Dr. prefix if they are medical.

I was a passenger on VS27 and have to say that the crew did an amazing job from my perspective. The mere fact that 300 people were safely evacuated from the plane in under 2 minutes is a true testament to the training and competence of the crew. I commend the entire Virgin staff that I came in contact with during the whole ordeal. They were extremely professional and prompt in the time following the evacuation. I felt that the Virgin staff had genuine concern for all passengers and offered a tremendous amount of support to all of us. It was a terrifying experience and not something that anyone can ever imagine unless they have been through it. I never questioned getting on VS127 to FL yesterday and I would absolutely choose Virgin again. Just happy that all are safe - could have been much much worse.

Thanks for posting daybird, great comments and have a fabulous holiday.

Interestingly one of the guys I work with who was on the flight is adamant they dumped fuel before landing......

Oh dear...keep digging that hole! Did not happen...the aircraft isn't capable of it. No doubt that this was the fuel he could smell, the fuel that was "like a bbq" ??

Depends upon where you are!

I know a number of Doctors who are very reluctant to give first aid for medical-legal reasons - they will only step forward if no-one else available and/or they see a life-threatening situation.

Very few pax. on aircraft will use the Dr. prefix if they are medical.

I know a lot of nursing staff who do the same.
My NHS Trust even say in our yearly update that they advise against doing anything outside of the hospital as we are not insured and can be held accountable for anything we don't do correctly or any ribs we break.

I have been crew for five different airlines now. All airlines train crew to shout commands as loudly as possible and if passengers hesitate at the top of the slide you push them in the small of the back. If there is a pile up at the bottom of the slide you ignore it as the priority is to get passengers out of the aircraft. If the slides are used its serious with the imminent possibility of fire or an explosion etc the crew may have no idea how long they have so they have to get all passengers off the aircraft as quickly as possible. Better a sprained ankle at the bottom of the slide than not get off at all! Can you imagine the adrenaline the crew must have experienced knowing it could be down to them to save 300 peoples lives? So yes shouting may have seemed like screaming as they desperately tried to get people to get to the exits and down the slides as fast as possible. Thankfully the aircraft didn't catch on fire but the crew weren't to know that. We're all appalled at the way the media have taken some passengers comments and blown them out of proportion. The crew did a fantastic job and would just like to say a big thank you to everyone in here for the positive comments - obviously from people who understand how serious it was.

If only everyone saw it like this, I think people need to look at the reality's also the above is fantastic and shows just what we all know already the the crew did their job amazingly and albeit a few injuries everyone survived.

What a sad world we live in where trained (medical) personnel are scared to do what they're trained to for fear of litigation.

As a registered paramedic I have voulunteered my services twice on VA flights - both with a good outcome and both with full assurance that VA insurance would cover any claims against me - not that it would have made a difference if they didn't. In my opinion any doctor, nurse, paramedic, etc. not helping a sick/injured/dying person anywhere should be guilty of negligence.

I was listening to the radio 2 debate in the car - it was followed by an equally diabolical debate about the yacht grounding in Guernsey. (I am a commercial helicopter pilot and marine captain.)I got told off for shouting at the car radio!

W.