Rumour - Virgin Atlantic Pilots to ballot: Industrial action

[Nottingham Nick]

... All things are never equal!

I agree, but I don't think that attitude is unique to the airline industry. v(

Nick

The job of an airline pilot is very "seniority" based. Annual leave, choice of trips & even promotion can be based on length of service. This is one reason why many of the pilots would opt not to leave.

The view on Facebook not quite in line with that voiced on pprune this evening!!

VS pilots have said they do not wish to disrupt anyone's plans but have had enough of the current flight ops management's "megalomaniacal and bullying stance" as they perpetually try to re-interpret the industrial agreements. Pilots have had enough.

I understand the talks which went on over the last few days have collapsed with the managements refusal to meet over the weekend or bank holiday Monday (their "RDOs"). Consequently, the pilots representatives have called for a ballot for non-continuous strike action.

Some flight-crew believe there is going to be disruption ahead as they have little faith that the management will see sense.

From what I am hearing, it seems that that management command little or no respect from the great majority of the pilot workforce.

Things do not sound good - one can only hope for intervention from the most senior level.

Latest news

Starting to look really bad for us all

The request is simple, realistic and easy. Stick to the agreements,treat them with respect. Grow up and stop trying to break them. Keep your word. It won't even cost you a penny. Just admit you broke the agreement, state you won't do it again.

As for drastic pay-cuts, VAA pilots have had to suck up approx a 15.5 % cut in real terms. The Company are after more and more. Pilots are being disciplined on a weekly basis. The aim is to divide and conquer and boot the union out, HR have sold the plan to the bosses that they can do it.

VAA used to be one of the target jobs in the industry, I've flown with Captains who are openly planning on quitting the profession just to get away from the septic environment pushed by the VAA Managers.

BA on the other hand took about a 2.5% cut with the promise of share options.
Trust me, this is going all the way. Both sides are bedding down for a long fight.

non flying "smiling backstabber" manager

I must admit to concerns over my October flights. Looking as though BA is a much safer option now.

Any time line on this.

I assume there will be talks, then a standoff, then a strike ballot, then legal challenges and finally a strike - what sort of time does that take, and selfishly is my mid October trip soon enough to not have to worry.

[Neil]

Next talks are on Monday 6th September.

By working for a company that is famous for strikes I can see what great things unions can get done for their members.

Deserved pay and deserved conditions.

But the majority of the people I have spoken to and met since starting my job, would rather not have to strike, they don't want to affect people negatively or loose out on a day or twos pay.
So when strikes are talked about, and voted for, the union members really do feel strongly about what they are fighting for.
Then again it's normally a vocal few who push for a strike, then the power of the union will disown people who don't agree and not strike, so people feel forced into agreeing.
I have sympathy for the pilots if they have to even think about striking, but currently we don't know how many pilots are fighting VAA and unions like to exaggerate so i think this is a whole load of wild speculation and very little to go on.

By working for a company that is famous for strikes I can see what great things unions can get done for their members.

Deserved pay and deserved conditions.

But the majority of the people I have spoken to and met since starting my job, would rather not have to strike, they don't want to affect people negatively or loose out on a day or twos pay.
So when strikes are talked about, and voted for, the union members really do feel strongly about what they are fighting for.
Then again it's normally a vocal few who push for a strike, then the power of the union will disown people who don't agree and not strike, so people feel forced into agreeing.
I have sympathy for the pilots if they have to even think about striking, but currently we don't know how many pilots are fighting VAA and unions like to exaggerate so i think this is a whole load of wild speculation and very little to go on.

From what the UK media has reported about the current run of aviation strike threats even support from those within the union has been patchy at best. I'm currently booking my VS travel plans a month ahead whereas I used to do EK 6-12months in bulk. I don't really want to be scrapping around for replacement flights during the strikes.

Next talks are on Monday 6th September.

So, what was the news/outcome from yesterday?

I got hit with the BA strikes earlier this year, and now again potentially on a business trip (with immovable dates -it's our critical once a year US exhibition and it's my company, so no big Corporation to provide a financial umbrella for me).

B****y marvellous, thanks SO much guys (who get paid more than me and almost certainly have more time off btw!).

[Neil]

Nothing as of yet, I am sure when/if there is something to report we will hear about it. No point worrying over something that might not happen.

Nothing as of yet, I am sure when/if there is something to report we will hear about it. No point worrying over something that might not happen.

I'm afraid to say that you most definitely DO have to worry about things that MIGHT/MIGHT NOT happen; it's called Contingency Planning and businesses will and do fail if they don't plan for things that MIGHT/MIGHT NOT happen. It's a basic tenet of running a business.

[Neil]

But until something is announced, the simple matter is you can't, because it hasn't even gone to ballot, been voted by the union members or and most importantly any dates strike dates announced. It is just rumours and hearsay, and I certainly wouldn't want to make any plans based on that.

If it makes you feel better then go ahead and book another carrier as a back up, but what happens if their a/c goes tech and you have a 24hr delay?

You cannot have a back up plan for every possible thing that could go wrong.

[Darren Wheeler]

The contingency is simple.

Book tickets with alternative carriers such as United or American. Contingency planning has limits both in scope and cost.

You cannot plan for the unforeseeable.

The contingency is simple.

Book tickets with alternative carriers such as United or American. Contingency planning has limits both in scope and cost.

You cannot plan for the unforeseeable.

I didn't say it wasn't simple - I said it should be done (by any business owner who, amongst other things, has a responsibility to their employees to do everything possible to ensure successful continuity of the business).

At this point a strike is definitely "forseeable" - but that doesn't mean it will definitely happen, however an earthquake at LHR is not forseeable and I obviously wouldn't be planning for that sort of thing .

To ignore something that is potentially only a few weeks away, that could have a material effect on the business going forward, would be irresponsible. Sure, nothing may happen, but then again it might, and if I don't have a "plan B" that would be managerially daft. Of course those who can just charter a Citation on the day they need to travel wouldn't need to plan too much, would they...

vizbiz, think about it like this, there will be talks, then if they break down the union will have to put a ballot in place, hold it, then report on it, then they are required to give at least 15 days (I think) notice before action. We're talking about a 6 to 10 week process minimum, so even if it does lead to a strike (which I think unlikely), the likelihood is that it won't happen until after your trip. Even then you're presuming that what will likely be 24 or 48 hr events will fall on your flight days ...

I presume you've booked a non-refundable fare ... even if a strike happens, on your travel days too, just as BA did, VS will do it's best to get you there a day before or after, and possibly book you on another airline.

This is very sad.

A company like VA spends years building up a reputation as a good employer - a plumb job if you like - and a reputation with the public of good service, reliability etc.

This event, if it does escalate into strike action will do serious damage to the brand and may have far-reaching consequences.

In my own experience, whilst VA are not perfect, they are my airline of choice when travelling one of their routes. Why? Because I'm pretty sure I'll get good service, be treated fairly if things go wrong, (on the whole) receive excellent customer service, meet (on the whole) committed staff who like the company they work for and have always treated my family and I well.

If this changes, so might my airline of choice - simple.

And, I already have flights booked in March/April/July 2011 - so I'm worried as well.

I'm currently thinking of booking MCO flights in Aug of 2011 - but will now wait...

Come on SRB, "the bearded one" or whichever nickname you prefer, surely this is not the way your company is supposed to be....

My loyalty is being tested...

[Darren Wheeler]

There are 3 sides to every story and apart from a couple of lines on Facebook, we're only hearing the pilots side.

There are 3 sides to every story and apart from a couple of lines on Facebook, we're only hearing the pilots side.

And you're absolutely right, of course.

No smoke without fire?

Whatever happens (or doesn't) though, not all press coverage is good and the brand will be tainted.

Anyway, as with BA, if there's a perceived risk (within reason) to a future booking, you don't make it - at least, that's the way I see it.

A poster on the Dibbs forum reckons they have been told by a pilot that a ballot has now been issued. How long do they usually run for?

We fly to MCO on the 11th Oct, so it is getting more worrying.

MartG.

Ballots usually run for a minimum of a couple of weeks - depends on how many members there are to be balloted and where they are. As a lot of pilots will, by virtue of their work, be away they will have to be give a good length of time. If they all worked in the same factory then the period could be different from a worksfoce that is more diffuse.

Then the union will have to consider the results before deciding what action is necessary. Even though there is a vote in favour the union might decide the majority was to small or too few members voted.

Then there is a minimum period that has to expire (I think 7 days) before any action can actally take place. And even if strike dates are announved after a positive ballot there can still be a settlement - just like there was with BAA last month.

[Darren Wheeler]

then add on any delay if VS decide to challenge the legality of the ballot.

Even if there is a yes, this can then mean the start of a new round of talks. Look how quickly the BAA strike got called off.

Nothing is guaranteed until the hour of the walkout begins.

[Scrooge]

Oh boy, let's hope that both sides can sit down and reach a compromise,nothing good can come from this for either the pilots or the company though I will say, the crews for VS are in a better position than a lot of other pilots, lots of hours in either the right or left seat on wide bodies, EK will snap them up quickly, for VS, a pilot strike is to me a lot more serious.

Looks like its now sorted

It was difficult not to worry when you've been looking forward to something for so long.

MartG.

[Neil]

Looks like its now sorted

It was difficult not to worry when you've been looking forward to something for so long.

MartG.

Excellent news y)

[Bazz]

Excellent News.