Update re compensation for involuntary downgrade I am fuming

No , not a subscriber to Which, but thanks Nickal for your detailed response. I did tell them I should receive my payment within 7 days of the flight (this was 5 days after the flight) but their response was that they had 28 days to respond to my email.

I do not have a seperate flight price only a per adult price for the holiday, with the PE upgrade, taxes, fuel supplement etc added on to that seperately. But surely even if Virgin set the return economy flight at some ridiculous price like £40 which means the calculation does mean 75% is less than what I paid to upgrade, surely this is not what was intended by the EU Law. Surely they expected this calulation to cover the upgrade cost plus give you some compensation? Otherwise VH could oversell PE for VA on every flight knowing that the refund they give VH passengers is less than the amount they pay to upgrade so more profits for Virgin.
Good old Richard, I see he has done us all a huge favour and bought Northern Rock - thats me closing my Northern Rock account then.

I was under the impression that it was 75% refund of the ticket price of the downgraded sector, i.e. the whole fare including the upgrade, not just the difference between fares.

So if an economy fare is about £600 return with VH, i.e. £300 one way, plus the £295 = £595 x 75% = £446 ball park.

Have I misunderstood? Otherwise, why would you prebook something that you may not get and will not get all your money back for if you don't???? Makes no sense.

You haven't misunderstood, this is how it should be.
The problem is trying to work out how much Virgin Holidays paid V Atlantic for the fare but this is why the OP should be dealing with this through Virgin Holidays IMO.

I have now contacted VH, via their facebook page and forwarded them all the emails so far. The reason I started talking to VA was that the Check in manager at Orlando emailed them initially with the details of my downgrade and asked them to deal with it.

I will let you know what feedback I get from VH.

Could you imagine buying a new car and adding £1000 of upgrades only to be told they can't get the parts, but as a good will gesture we'll refund you £750!

I think VS has screwed up here

At the risk of over-simplifying what has become a complex subect...

As regards the return flight, as pre-booked in PE via Virgin Holidays; the original contract was with Virgin Holidays. It is they who should be therefore be approached. At the very least you are entitled to £295; no less.

Unless you consider the offer of cash + miles to be worth having.

At the risk of over-simplifying what has become a complex subect...

As regards the return flight, as pre-booked in PE via Virgin Holidays; the original contract was with Virgin Holidays. It is they who should be therefore be approached. At the very least you are entitled to £295; no less.

Unless you consider the offer of cash + miles to be worth having.

Indeed; minimum £295 plus an amount for loss of enjoyment of holiday, which is of course negotiable.

Hi all
Please can I have some help from the seasoned travellers on here. I have previously posted about my involuntary downgrade from PE to economy and being split up from my husband and 2 children on a return flight from Orlando to Gatwick.

Had contacted VA as desk manager at Orlando had emailed them about my downgrade (booked whole package hol with VH and am in their frequent holiday program).
VA only offered me £255 which is less than the £290 I paid to upgrade. I asked how this could be right but VA said it was 75% of the total flight cost (which means the economy flight cost £40). VA then said, as a gesture of goodwill (oh so kind) that they would pay me the £290 I had paid to upgrade but I had to send proof of what I had (no compensation for disappointment etc at all). I asked them how they could work out the 75% calc if they didn't know what I had paid for the upgrade in the first place!!!!

In the mean time I was advised to contact VH as I should have dealt with them in the first place so I put a message on their Facebook page. I got a message back asking for details and I copied them in on all the emails I had sent/received to VA. Someone then called me 2 weeks ago from VH as they could not find my booking!!!!!!!! and asked for a booking reference. I have heard nothing since.

I emailed VH today to politely ask what was happening with my claim and got a message saying that VA had emailed me (I know that I sent them the emails) and they could send me a copy of it, no mention of them (VH) doing anything.

Please help, I feel like banging my head on a hard wall. Why should I be jumping through rings to get my money and some compensation off of them. URGGGHHH.
If they are really trying to make sure I never go on another holiday with them again they are doing a great job.

What can I do to get this sorted before my head explodes in frustration.

[Scrooge]

Ok, first question, did you pay cash or credit card for the upgrade, if you used your credit card dispute the charge, the service was not provided so the charge cannot stand.

Dealing with any large company can be a pain, for whatever reason the Virgin travel brands more than most.

The solution is simple, take them to small claims court, if being served does not get their attention then they will not show and you will get a default ruling.

Ok, first question, did you pay cash or credit card for the upgrade, if you used your credit card dispute the charge, the service was not provided so the charge cannot stand.

Dealing with any large company can be a pain, for whatever reason the Virgin travel brands more than most.

The solution is simple, take them to small claims court, if being served does not get their attention then they will not show and you will get a default ruling.

But she doesn't know how much she is claiming for. She has no idea what the value of the economy flight was as no one will tell her. The issue isn't just over the cost of the upgrade as she is entitled to 75% of the cost of the flight.

It's difficult to advise unless we know exactly what has been said in communications so far.

Claim from VH for the cost of the upgrades plus say £500 for loss of enjoyment.

[Darren Wheeler]

I've merged this with your original post soo there's no duplication of posts.

Appalling - it's not so very long ago that VS/VH would have pro-actively sorted this out instead of being dragged, unwillingly through a process of justification/recompence for their own mistakes...

Virgin branded companies used to have exemplary customer service, it was part of the brand, it's looking a little patchy these days...one more differentiating factor that is being eroded.

One tactic I've been forced to use quite recently is repeated calls to customer service, until you get someone who actually appears to take an interest and you get the feeling will "own" the issue and get it sorted - that might be worth a try. Or calmly explain that you've had various attempts to sort out the issue and gently demand to speak to a manager.

Best advice is stay calm but forceful (however hard that is), you'll get much better results...

Claim from VH for the cost of the upgrades plus say £500 for loss of enjoyment.

Perhaps the best suggestion yet.

For some reason VA and VH are provide appalling customer service in these situations - you should have been dealt with quickly, efficiently, and correctly. Repeatedly we hear of similar situations, where it takes forever for Virgin to reply,and then completely inadequately. Often leaving people completely frustrated and recoursing to the media or other ...

You could try Richard Branson's Victoria Angel!

Following the volcano in April 2010 we were stuck in Florida for 11 extra days on a Virgin Holidays Fly-Drive. Trying to claim the EU compensation from either Virgin Holidays or Virgin Atlantic was a total nightmare - emails and letters unanswered, a payout far less than it should have been etc. etc.. As a last resort I issued a claim through Money Claim Online (the County Court) a few days before Christmas last year. The procedure was fairly straightforward with no copies of expenses or correspondence required. The case was not contested and Virgin Atlantic paid up in full (including the court costs) in early January this year.
I am aware that other stranded passengers took the same action and we all received the same letter stating that payment had been made as a gesture of goodwill!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all for your replies.

I am have finally spoken to someone at VH today. I phoned and spoke to a very nice lady who tried to transfer me to customer relations - 25 minutes later with her as the go between they agreed to call me back (I had to collect daughter from school).

VH customer relations did call. They said the claim should be with VA as they had caused the problem. I said why I was unhappy with VA's response so kindly VH are giving me my upgrade money back and £50 compensation (I am being sarcastic!!). I know this is totally laughable. The hassel and stress they have caused me just trying to get my money back is worth more than £50 let alone the disappointment to my hol. I just don't want to stress about it anymore and ruin my christmas fuming about it.
Virgin have won.
I hope they are happy. All I can say is they will never get another penny of my money again.
They obviously do not give a stuff about their customers and all their advertising speel is just that - total speel.
I think they have lost sight of how they became what they are today - good customer service which meant customers were loyal - Richard Branson should be ashamed.
But his planes are full and he is making loads of money so why should he give a stuff.

Betsie - it's disappointing that it's taken you so long to get an answer.

It seems VS and VH are good at pointing the finger at each other and failing to take ownership/provide resolution.

Had you been offered a full refund and £50 comp. within 7 days of the flight, would you have been happier?

No, not really.
As I was expecting 75% of total flight cist inc upgrade i was expecting to get around £500 in total. £300 refund for upgrade I paid for and around £200 in comp. At no point have VA explained to me how they arrived at £255 as 75% of a PE flight from Orlando to Gatwick.
I think £50 is a insult. It was their mistake, they gave my seat to a single man who was a silver card holder and split my family up. We paid £1,100 extra to upgrade to PE to all sit together - I would not have paid this if I had thought we would not all be together.

Betsie - "I think they have lost sight of how they became what they are today - good customer service which meant customers were loyal - Richard Branson should be ashamed."...

In my opinion, you've well and truly hit the nail on the head.

Ts & Cs aside, I totally empathise with the way you feel. I'd probably feel the same in the situation you find yourself.

Well done Virgin Group - well handled.

You know, if you could be bothered, why not dump the whole lot on "Victoria Angel" via the virgin group website and test out that piece of PR nonsense...

No, not really.
As I was expecting 75% of total flight cist inc upgrade i was expecting to get around £500 in total. £300 refund for upgrade I paid for and around £200 in comp. At no point have VA explained to me how they arrived at £255 as 75% of a PE flight from Orlando to Gatwick.
I think £50 is a insult. It was their mistake, they gave my seat to a single man who was a silver card holder and split my family up. We paid £1,100 extra to upgrade to PE to all sit together - I would not have paid this if I had thought we would not all be together.

Totally agree with how you feel. After being loyal to VS for more years than I can remember, I now only fly with them when they are significantly cheaper than other carriers. Back in the day I didn't mind paying a small premium based on the great service and edge they once had.

Totally agree with how you feel. After being loyal to VS for more years than I can remember, I now only fly with them when they are significantly cheaper than other carriers. Back in the day I didn't mind paying a small premium based on the great service and edge they once had.[/quote]

Totally agree, even we have gone over to the dark side for our next flight, just to check out the opposition for future flights.
Stopped bothering with PE for a while now as don't think its that much better than being in Economy on most flights and the extra money saved means a couple of extra good meals at the destination.

Stopped bothering with PE for a while now as don't think its that much better than being in Economy on most flights and the extra money saved means a couple of extra good meals at the destination.

Agreed,Snomo, flying economy on the next few flights for that exact reason!! Also think that the decline in VS customer service could be their downfall if they don't get a handle on it soon v(
Come on VS get it sorted !

Whilst I am not attempting to defend the practice of downgrading which every airline does, I will defend VS as still one of the best airlines regardless of which cabin you are in. The 'dark side' may seem brighter until you get there.
Take a few flights with legacy US carriers then go back to VS and you will notice the difference.
Try United domestic and then take a VX flight. You will not look back.

Whilst I am not attempting to defend the practice of downgrading which every airline does, I will defend VS as still one of the best airlines regardless of which cabin you are in. The 'dark side' may seem brighter until you get there.
Take a few flights with legacy US carriers then go back to VS and you will notice the difference.
Try United domestic and then take a VX flight. You will not look back.

Have you tried AA recently? They are now leagues ahead for onboard service than VS.

AA may have older cabin crew but at least they know they are there to serve.

AA may have older cabin crew but at least they know they are there to serve.

I suppose all that your comment does is remind us how variable things can be, my experiences of AA would lead me to comment the exact opposite. On my last flight from Dallas to Palm Springs I think the comment, when asked if I wanted a drink in First, then taking 5 seconds to think before replying, warranted a "Well if you don't hurry up, no one on the plane will get one"! And I was probably the only passenger who actually paid for a First seat, the rest are probably on guaranteed upgrades (which really should be the only reason for sitting in that cabin!).

AA may have upgraded its hard product in internationalJ, but it's still so poor that they're having to do it again on their new 773s. As for domestic, it's tatty with no comparable features to say VX's amenities, even international First, while exceptionally spacious, is leagues behind VS UC in all aspects apart from perhaps their ability to conjure up a decent steak. As for the crew, there are individual stars, but they're only there for their pension mostly, and as soon as the basics are complete it's off to the galley to catch up on People.

Back to the OP, I hope VS customer service does kick in at some point, and someone takes ownership to help you.

Whilst I am not attempting to defend the practice of downgrading which every airline does, I will defend VS as still one of the best airlines regardless of which cabin you are in. The 'dark side' may seem brighter until you get there.
Take a few flights with legacy US carriers then go back to VS and you will notice the difference.
Try United domestic and then take a VX flight. You will not look back.

I don't think so.
In the past year, VS service has gone down the pan. I have been using them for many years and have seen a gradual decline in all areas of service. But in the last 12 to 18 months it has dived off a cliff.
Try BA at the minute, and there is no comparison. BA is miles better every time.

There are many who think back to the halcyon day where VS were the class leader. Some seem to have an emotional tie to this an can or won't look objectively to what is clear. VS have simply lost their way and that is very sad!