Freedom Menu

[preiffer]

Re-posted my question; let's see if an answer is forthcoming.

Re-posted my question; let's see if an answer is forthcoming.

Careful, you'll be marked as an agitator to the system....

[preiffer]

Re-posted my question; let's see if an answer is forthcoming.

Careful, you'll be marked as an agitator to the system....

I think it's a little late for that...

Re-posted my question; let's see if an answer is forthcoming.

Careful, you'll be marked as an agitator to the system....

I think it's a little late for that...

Surely not! Your posts are always so very supportive of the changes VS brings in....I could almost be forgiven for thinking your a staffer

Re-posted my question; let's see if an answer is forthcoming.

Your question is very well put. Unfortunately I suspect it is very easily answered by VS in that I believe the majority of passengers would confirm that they do not use or place any great importance on the Freedom menu, myself included.

However that does not make their decision correct. Most of the best companies I know, recognise the importance of catering for minority needs and tastes. There is a well known paradox that if you make decisions based on the majority view for every issue you can end up displeasing the majority. That is because many people hold one particular aspect of the service or goods which are offered as critically important. For example
I might stop shopping at my local Tescos store and switch to Waitrose instead simply because they stopped selling my favorite brand of coffee; for someone else it might be the tuna. Yet for Tescos both products might be low sales volumes.

Looking at the specific decision, its easy to see how some valued customers (Slinky09 for example?) could easily be seduced by another airline offering a flexible meal service. I find it hard to believe that anyone would switch airlines in order to be served cheese on a trolley rather than a plate. As others have stated: substance verses fluff.

Many of the changes implemented by VS in recent years seem to lack critical thinking.

[fozzyo]

So I experienced the new meal service on the way home from Havana recently (I also remembered why I haven't done Gatwick for ten years).

Much confusion by many passengers over the amouse bouche because what arrived looked like one of the described starters (well a substituted one). They crew didn't introduce it as anything, they just put it down.

The rest of the meal was good, I love the new glasses - the Champers Bowls are awesome (have several at home), table runner is nicer then the plastic tray in a pillow case too.

There is one aspect I don't understand about the removal of the Freedom menu that I don't think has been touched on yet. Cost. You have to load the food, tableware, drinks etc onto the plane. You have to prepare and heat the food and present it according to the little display cards. Doing this one hour into a flight or five hours in makes no difference to the cost. The crew have to be there as does everything else that is used.

So why get rid of it? Yes do all the new marketing spin on it, but just add "Because we have a Freedom menu for our Upper Class passengers you can enjoy your meal onboard whenever suits you best during your flight." That's it, not going to cost anything but the little detail is so important.

But it seems the little details that cost nothing is what VS seems to completely ignore and bugger up lately. I'm FC Sliver and hubby is Gold. Neither have been welcomed aboard by name on any of our recent flights, he hasn't been "welcomed back" during the menu chat or addressed by name, the FSM hasn't been around to thank us for flying again with them, and on our last fight his was the last meal order to be taken and told his first choice wasn't available as they had run out. All these tiny little tasks take a few minutes out of a ten hour flight, or no extra time at all (boarding welcome for example) but they count for so much. Particularly with frequent flyers who notice all the cut backs and so you need to do the little touches to make them feel looked after.

On the outbound flight (with Freedom menu) one member of crew was just outstanding in service, attention everything. She was the example of what crew should be like in Upper.

Mat

I'm sure If you asked the crew to eat later they wouldn't say no .? As understandably many would have enjoyed the food in the clubhouse before boarding - it seems that many feel there would be no flexibility in the issue but if was truly important I don't think the crew on the day would be that rigid strict about it? It's like they are trying to improve things but everything they do is wrong and whilst many of you are top flyers look at the positives and feed back the information to the crew- ask to speak to the fsm or onboard manager and have your opinions documented. - that's the only way things will change or improve -

I've experienced UC twice now on trips back to LHR from the West Coast of the USA. One thing I particularly enjoyed was the Full English Breakfast served before landing.

I'll soon be taking my first UC flight from the East Coast - specifically MCO/LGW. Looking at the new Dine/Graze service, I noticed that the Full English Breakfast won't be offered on that flight.

My question is for regular UC MCO/LGW flyers - did the Full English Breakast used to be offered from the old Freedom menu on this flight, but has now been removed for my convenience? Or has it never been offered?

Full english was always on the menu on the upper flights that I have taken from MCO into LGW or MAN.

It will be a shame if its taken off, especially as LGW doesn't have an arrivals lounge.

David

I'm sure If you asked the crew to eat later they wouldn't say no .?

Well, they did. On an UC flight last year, I asked to eat later as I'd eaten in the club house, and was told "No, we're doing dinner now".

And yes, the freedom menu was apparently available on that flight...

I'm sure If you asked the crew to eat later they wouldn't say no .? As understandably many would have enjoyed the food in the clubhouse before boarding - it seems that many feel there would be no flexibility in the issue but if was truly important I don't think the crew on the day would be that rigid strict about it? It's like they are trying to improve things but everything they do is wrong and whilst many of you are top flyers look at the positives and feed back the information to the crew- ask to speak to the fsm or onboard manager and have your opinions documented. - that's the only way things will change or improve -

I don't wish to be unkind, but I think your being a little naivè about how VS operates.

Not everything they do is wrong, but so very much is badly thought out, ill- informed, or just executed with such palpable arrogance that it just grates with an awful lot of frequent flyers - who, incidentally, don't feel that thier opinions are listened to in the slightest.

I'm sure If you asked the crew to eat later they wouldn't say no .? As understandably many would have enjoyed the food in the clubhouse before boarding - it seems that many feel there would be no flexibility in the issue but if was truly important I don't think the crew on the day would be that rigid strict about it? It's like they are trying to improve things but everything they do is wrong and whilst many of you are top flyers look at the positives and feed back the information to the crew- ask to speak to the fsm or onboard manager and have your opinions documented. - that's the only way things will change or improve -

I don't wish to be unkind, but I think your being a little naivè about how VS operates.

Not everything they do is wrong, but so very much is badly thought out, ill- informed, or just executed with such palpable arrogance that it just grates with an awful lot of frequent flyers - who, incidentally, don't feel that thier opinions are listened to in the slightest.

And quite often it is the little things that VS gets so wrong - the little touches that often matter. They also get caught up in descriving them as 'enhancements' when clealy they are not.

Take the amenity kit for example it contains less items than it did and items that wern't in it (like pen, polos, moisturiser) were then available from the 'basket' that the FSM usually brought round - until it was 'enhanced' away. I have a small selection of J kits obtained from VS,LX,UA and DL and the VS one really is the worst of the bunch (I might get around to posting pics on here)

And ice cream - VS hands out cheap little tubs but on an LX flight last year the CC came round a full J cabin with a trolley and served ice cream freshly scooped and in cones - a minor thing but it just screamed 'it's only ice cream but lets do it properly' and it was fun to see grown ups enjoying ice cream! how it should be - a huge dollop on a cone not a smidge in a paper tub and plastic tube.

Swiss also had little tubes of moisturiser in the toilets rather than screwed to the wall like VS does which simply shouts 'we don't trust you lot'.

The issue of coffee also comes to mind. On a DL flight I asked for a refil - late I admit - but I was served it but I was asked to hold onto the cup for landing. Now that may have broken several rules but it was good customer services.

That's what VS used to be like and that's the VS some of us want back - the customer first even if it did inconvenience the crew a little.

And quite often it is the little things that VS gets so wrong - the little touches that
Take the amenity kit for example it contains less items than it did and items that wern't in it (like pen, polos, moisturiser) were then available from the 'basket' that the FSM usually brought round - until it was 'enhanced' away. I have a small selection of J kits obtained from VS,LX,UA and DL and the VS one really is the worst of the bunch (I might get around to posting pics on here

You know, the amenity kits are so awful these days I'd tried my very best to forget the existed at all.

Another prime example of the bean counters taking decisions which can be loosely translated as 'screw you' in relation to the passenger.

The rationale for reducing the packs to basically sod all still makes me laugh; 'We have developed a new Upper Class Snooze Pack that contains all the basics you need for a great flight' - read as 'We can't afford the little niceties anymore, but don't want to admit it, so have changed the pack to something more akin to Economy'

VS servce may have some niggles but it does not have any flaws.
They are not in the restaurant business - they are transporting us from A to B - considering the limitations of being 30k feet in the sky with little working space they do a great job.

I have never seen anyone have the freedom menu - maybe the customers don't know about it in which case they have lost a service they didn't know existed.

Most flyers seem to want to eat, sleep and eat (work and tv fitted in around that).

The 'gift'(pens, polos or playing cards etc) all seem a bit out dated. Sure the pens were nice quality but I'll go to Paperchase if I want a pen. I want VS to focus on what they do - get us from A to B safely and in comfort.

Cheese trolley - nice idea and elegant trolley but a bit pointless as it only serves the same 3 cheese they offered before so seems to be trollied just for dramatic effect.

Tea trolley is a nice addition. You get the same sarnies and cakes but the presentation makes the experience nicer.

VS are running a travel business and I think they are doing an excellent job.

VS servce may have some niggles but it does not have any flaws.

I think the flaws stem from lost opportunities, rather than a drastic loss of service - freedom menu excluded. They seem quite content to be the same as other airlines, or in most cases worse, which seems to go against thier initial innovative and unique branding.

VS are running a travel business and I think they are doing an excellent job.

Were these changes brought in for Economy passengers, who pay about 10x less for thier tickets than J class, then I would agree. But for a minimum of £2000, then it's not unreasonable to expect a little more engagement by VS, and a little less 'like it or lump it' attitude, wrapped up in PR waffle.

VS are running a travel business and I think they are doing an excellent job.

Were these changes brought in for Economy passengers, who pay about 10x less for thier tickets than J class, then I would agree. But for a minimum of £2000, then it's not unreasonable to expect a little more engagement by VS, and a little less 'like it or lump it' attitude, wrapped up in PR waffle.

The 'new and improved' Y service has its (many) critics too - mainly down to it being poorly explained by VS (e.g. the term 'welcome cocktail' meant one thing to VS but almost everyone else thought it meant something different) and different versions of the service operating on different routes and depending if it was a day or night flight.

VS servce may have some niggles but it does not have any flaws.
They are not in the restaurant business - they are transporting us from A to B - considering the limitations of being 30k feet in the sky with little working space they do a great job.

I don't think many are saying the service is awful, just not what it used to be. And that is what annoys people. UC used to be so much more, but over the years, all the little "improvements" have led to a far inferior product. There is now less and less between VS and the competition.

Tea trolley is a nice addition. You get the same sarnies and cakes but the presentation makes the experience nicer.

But tea and coffee now come around too. So will I get my Americano before I finish eating? Also the trolley will still be blocking the aisles, and how many times will it need re-filling?

It's like they are trying to improve things but everything they do is wrong and whilst many of you are top flyers look at the positives and feed back the information to the crew- ask to speak to the fsm or onboard manager and have your opinions documented. - that's the only way things will change or improve -

I don't understand why you think we are just moaning for the sake of it? We are discussing our thoughts on the new meal service, and are telling VS what we think. Just because you think the problem is meaningless to you, doesn't mean we can't discuss it. You can't just pass on positive feedback (many people do pass on positive feedback, myself included), you need to pass on all feedback, and on this subject it's generally negative.

The 'new and improved' Y service has its (many) critics too - mainly down to it being poorly explained by VS (e.g. the term 'welcome cocktail' meant one thing to VS but almost everyone else thought it meant something different) and different versions of the service operating on different routes and depending if it was a day or night flight.

I agree, and actually, I think this change is just one in a long line of 'exciting changes' that have done nothing for the passenger experience. It shows, if anything, how selective VS is with the truth with its onboard products.

I'm sure If you asked the crew to eat later they wouldn't say no .? As understandably many would have enjoyed the food in the clubhouse before boarding - it seems that many feel there would be no flexibility in the issue but if was truly important I don't think the crew on the day would be that rigid strict about it? It's like they are trying to improve things but everything they do is wrong and whilst many of you are top flyers look at the positives and feed back the information to the crew- ask to speak to the fsm or onboard manager and have your opinions documented. - that's the only way things will change or improve -

I don't wish to be unkind, but I think your being a little naivè about how VS operates.

Not everything they do is wrong, but so very much is badly thought out, ill- informed, or just executed with such palpable arrogance that it just grates with an awful lot of frequent flyers - who, incidentally, don't feel that thier opinions are listened to in the slightest.

And quite often it is the little things that VS gets so wrong - the little touches that often matter. They also get caught up in descriving them as 'enhancements' when clealy they are not.

Take the amenity kit for example it contains less items than it did and items that wern't in it (like pen, polos, moisturiser) were then available from the 'basket' that the FSM usually brought round - until it was 'enhanced' away. I have a small selection of J kits obtained from VS,LX,UA and DL and the VS one really is the worst of the bunch (I might get around to posting pics on here)

And ice cream - VS hands out cheap little tubs but on an LX flight last year the CC came round a full J cabin with a trolley and served ice cream freshly scooped and in cones - a minor thing but it just screamed 'it's only ice cream but lets do it properly' and it was fun to see grown ups enjoying ice cream! how it should be - a huge dollop on a cone not a smidge in a paper tub and plastic tube.

Swiss also had little tubes of moisturiser in the toilets rather than screwed to the wall like VS does which simply shouts 'we don't trust you lot'.

The issue of coffee also comes to mind. On a DL flight I asked for a refil - late I admit - but I was served it but I was asked to hold onto the cup for landing. Now that may have broken several rules but it was good customer services.

That's what VS used to be like and that's the VS some of us want back - the customer first even if it did inconvenience the crew a little.

I agree with the little touches making things 'special'. I've only flown UC twice and will be flying UC again in the summer. For me I want things to be 'special' and to feel special for this rare treat.

I'm not sure I like the clinical aspect that appears to be coming into the service. Even the web page promoting the new meal services looks a little...... cafeteria? See here

The more I think about it, the more I agree with most people on here. Upper Class is VS's premium service and like most people that pay for premium services, we expect that little bit extra. I've not been flying VS UC for very long but I reckon that those who have are rightly upset with the fact that the product is depreciating rather than improving. If you gained my custom because of certain innovations, you cannot take them away and expect to keep my business.

And all I've seen from VS is double edged improvements like AG and AU now get double miles but you have to work harder to get there. Or there's an improved meal service which gives you less of a choice in some cases and includes the inefficient cheese trolley service.

Imagine if I've had a long day at work and didn't get a chance to eat at the Clubhouse but I'm really tired and want to nap before I eat, I'd either have to wake up and eat with every one else or settle for tomato on a stick, finger sandwiches and probably bit of cheese.

Even the express breakfast option. I may be speaking for myself, but I like to have big breakfasts. I remember when on even short night flights, I could wake up to a full English breakfast, but not any more.

I believe that it's slinky that said earlier that customer focussed improvements are key.

You can't base your research on 3 or 4 customers opinion out of a cabin of 30. They should give the questionnaires to everyone.

OMG! I've gone and ranted haven't I?

The OP mentions "feedback from passengers and crew", there appears to be a lot of "passengers" on this thread who disagree with the decision Virgin have made.

Is it worth someone creating a standard letter detailing the "dissatisfaction" with the decision to remove the Freedom menu and getting everyone to send it in individually, perhaps email to Customer Services? Power in numbers and all that....

It's a shame the OP hasn't come back to address any of the points raised here but I'm sure they have all been read.

Even the web page promoting the new meal services looks a little...... cafeteria? See here

Perhaps wheoever came up with the design was being "ironic" or "post modern" Wonder whether it's laminated?

Even the web page promoting the new meal services looks a little...... cafeteria? See here

Perhaps wheoever came up with the design was being "ironic" or "post modern" Wonder whether it's laminated?

There is a certain 1970s cafè quality to it now you mention it

Swiss also had little tubes of moisturiser in the toilets rather than screwed to the wall like VS does which simply shouts 'we don't trust you lot'.

The issue of coffee also comes to mind. On a DL flight I asked for a refil - late I admit - but I was served it but I was asked to hold onto the cup for landing. Now that may have broken several rules but it was good customer services.

That's what VS used to be like and that's the VS some of us want back - the customer first even if it did inconvenience the crew a little.

Although thankfully in UC the moisturiser is not screwed to the wall, I do agree, this stupid rule about coffee is just banal, written up by people with the minds of anuses.

I have never seen anyone have the freedom menu - maybe the customers don't know about it in which case they have lost a service they didn't know existed.

I partake on like 50% of my flights, so losing the freedom menu for a mini burger and a packet of crisps is not my idea of progress.

Cheese trolley - nice idea and elegant trolley but a bit pointless as it only serves the same 3 cheese they offered before so seems to be trollied just for dramatic effect.

Tea trolley is a nice addition. You get the same sarnies and cakes but the presentation makes the experience nicer.

VS are running a travel business and I think they are doing an excellent job.

Cheese trolley = style over substance, especially since you don't even get cheese to cut from, just pre-chunked lumps.

And I agree, overall it is excellent, but degraded.

I'm not sure I like the clinical aspect that appears to be coming into the service. Even the web page promoting the new meal services looks a little...... cafeteria? See here

That's just rank - I have a rule about dining, never go anywhere where the menu is printed in pictures (apart from China and Chinatown in San Francisco, especially the muckier restaurants)! Ironic, schmyronic, that's just naff, naff, naff. Dare I say it again, naff.

Imagine if I've had a long day at work and didn't get a chance to eat at the Clubhouse but I'm really tired and want to nap before I eat, I'd either have to wake up and eat with every one else or settle for tomato on a stick, finger sandwiches and probably bit of cheese.

Even the express breakfast option. I may be speaking for myself, but I like to have big breakfasts. I remember when on even short night flights, I could wake up to a full English breakfast, but not any more.

Ah but that's all your fault Tinuks for not fitting in with the new VS the customer comes way down the list model of service!

VS expect pax to have eaten in the CH prior to boarding - they even say it on the website -

On our shorter night flights from destinations like New York and Boston, you’ve probably already dined in our Clubhouse and would rather focus on sleep.

*

and then to use revivals on landing!


* of course some of us want to and will do both