H class

The tape drive in the Atari Commodore is currently patched to the Sinclair ZX81, updates are not easy, however I have heard a rumour that the new Amstrad is being installed in two weeks time

Ha ha ha ha, still a hell of an improvement to that typewriter and wire service they were using last year

On the H fares... when I first read this I was coincidently on the phone to VS - chasing miles from an upgrade flight ha - the agent said H fares are upgradeable from flyingco but not normal flying club. Can't let the computers be too intelligent now... they may rebel :0

If I were you Billy I would push to have the H fares upgraded with miles and no additional fare cost... it is what is advertised on the site that incentivised you to purchase them in the first place.. is it not

Bonne Chance 8D

[Bazz]

ISTBC but if you purchase an H fare and the website and the confirmation all state the fare is upgradable VS would be contractually obliged to stand by that. They could get around it by saying there was no G availability on your chosen dates thereby blocking you but that would mean altering the online system, which I doubt they would do.

H is like the old K that seems to be taking a rest but can be upgraded with flyingCo miles.

I think the FlyingCO vs. FlyingClub is an unncessary complication on VS' part.

ISTBC but if you purchase an H fare and the website and the confirmation all state the fare is upgradable VS would be contractually obliged to stand by that. They could get around it by saying there was no G availability on your chosen dates thereby blocking you but that would mean altering the online system, which I doubt they would do.

This is an interesting point, becasue if I had booked an H based on the information that it was upgradeable, I would damn well expect them to honour that, otherwise they are misrepresenting the product. Even worse if they know that they are continuing to do so!

Not sure how much an 'errors and omissions excepted' clause would help them here?

This is an interesting point, becasue if I had booked an H based on the information that it was upgradeable, I would damn well expect them to honour that, otherwise they are misrepresenting the product. Even worse if they know that they are continuing to do so!

Not sure how much an 'errors and omissions excepted' clause would help them here?

I wondered about this earlier this week. (I'm not a lawyer.) The very detailed fare fules that are provided (well, linked to) when you actually purchase a ticket do not seem to deal with mileage upgrades at all. I think that it is these that you are accepting when you buy a ticket. So I fear that the incorrect message on the flight pop-up window would just be considered to be an 'invitation to treat' rather than a term of the contract.

Whether there are other possible interpretations, or consumer protections that might be invoked, I don't know.

So I fear that the incorrect message on the flight pop-up window would just be considered to be an 'invitation to treat' rather than a term of the contract.

Not a lawyer either but the way I understand it is when an ITT is made, the party making the offer is obligated to fulfil its part of the deal should it be accepted, especially as the money has already changed hands... in saying that the fare code is upgradeable with miles, it should be..

I think Ratechaser is correct in that they are technically misrepresenting the fare. It is possible to get to that info (i.e an offer or ITT if you will) without first purchasing the ticket.. as such all Sealink has to do is say "I bought an H fare as it said I could upgrade with miles.. so here are xyz miles and thank you very much.."

Got your back Billy

Checked the intranet which says that they know it's incorrect but the next site update is in about two weeks so it'll have to wait until then.

Ha ha ha ha, and all the while it is online they are obligated to upgrade any H fares with miles, aren't they? ii)

Here is something simple they may not have considered... post a news item on the site simply admitting the error, apologising for any misunderstandings and inform that it will be fixed ASAP, but in the meantime to clarify H fares are not upgradeable using Flying Club miles!! Too easy perhaps?

Well I'm certainly not a lawyer either, although I did study contract law and torts in my dim and distant past. So while I'm sure things have moved on a bit from cases like Cargill/Carbolic Smoke Ball Co (got to love some of those old cases), I am pretty sure that something like this wouldn't count as an invitation to treat.

The point around misrepresentation as well is that it could be argued that it goes from being 'innocent' to 'negligent' or even 'fraudulent' if they don't remove the incorrect message immediately upon it being pointed out to them.

Let's say I go and look for a flight tonight with a view that I'd want one that I could upgrade (and of course with no prior knowledge of the fact that VS had made this mistake). I get presented with an H, see the message and go book/pay. That's the contract there, and part of what I have bought is the value of being able to upgrade. Clearly it can be demonstrated that upgradeable fares have a value, otherwise why are they so much more expensive than the non-upgradeable ones...

So I've basically been sold something of lesser value than was advertised, and which crucially I have completed the contract on (offer, acceptance, consideration IIRC...). Am I not in my rights to expect specific performance of that contract, I.e. Honouring a miles upgrade if a G were available? Especially if as above, VS are negligent in continuing to misrepresent the terms of the fare?

As for this message versus the detailed terms against each fare code, isn't there a legal principle called the 'objective test of reasonableness' where it will be assessed on what a reasonable person should be able to expect from what they see? Not sure VS could get out of that.

But like I say I'm not the lawyer here and ISTBC if there have been a bunch of precedent cases in the meantime that put the ball back in VS's court. Would be interested to know...

RC

I am going to contact VS to register my discord.

I did pay quite a bit more than H class round trip.

To me, this is not like me finding a £99 fare and booking it. I am paying more than the lowest published rate for a specific benefit advertised on their website, and in a class that I can select when I look at upgradeable tickets.

And the limits on G Class availability added an extra dimension
where delaying booking could have meant me losing out on the upgrade. While not exactly selling under duress, I didn't feel I could take the time to challenge VS on this error.

Well I'm certainly not a lawyer either, although I did study contract law and torts in my dim and distant past. So while I'm sure things have moved on a bit from cases like Cargill/Carbolic Smoke Ball Co (got to love some of those old cases), I am pretty sure that something like this wouldn't count as an invitation to treat.
RC

Yes, you have (I think) convinced me you're right, and I agree with your point about negligent misrepresentation.

One thing that occurred to me is that as a member of flying club, there is of course another contract in operation and the t&cs for FC (and the web pages, so far as I can see) do not state that H fares are upgradable. Not sure whether this has any relevance.

It's bad form for a company to hide behind the very small print, when the big print says the opposite.

Although this seems quite clear:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/fl ... 134224.png

[preiffer]

"E&OE" = The generic "safety net" for all online businesses wins

7.2 While Virgin Atlantic uses reasonable efforts to include accurate and up to date information on the website, it makes no warranties or representations as to its accuracy or completeness. Virgin Atlantic is not responsible for any errors or omissions or for the results obtained from the use of such information.

Unfortunately, not a leg to stand on :#

Interesting. T&C can be challenged.
It's more the fact that they know it's wrong and aren't updating the site that is annoying me.

Here's a summary about a mistake Dell made...

Dell relied on its terms and conditions which said that Dell was "not responsible for pricing, typographical, or other errors". However there is a risk that such a sweeping exclusion clause in consumer terms and conditions may be challenged on the grounds that it is unreasonable.

Websites should be double/triple checked before publishing , they must stick to what they publish even if it wasn't their intent.

Another example of "poor attention to detail" by Virgin

Two weeks to update a page! Good job the BBC don't follow Virgins example.

Now doubt they would weasel out of their error and quote something in the small print anyway rather than stand up for their error.

The unfortunate thing here is that at the end of the day, you will have to go to court to get an interpretation of the contract and to determine if VS will escape liability by it's sweeping exclusion clause.

I am not certain about UK Contract Laws, but it's all the same common law which should not allow a party to breach its obligations under a contract when the other party was induced into entering into the contract on the basis of its misrepresentation.

But isn't it shameful that a company that flies in the face of ordinary has such collosal IT issues? That just flies in the face of common sense. Like International Hitman(?) said if someone told me that I had put up wrong info on my website, I'd take it down or change it pronto. I've emailed them twice over conflicting information once. I was told that it was a mistake and something would be done about it and a year on, nothing has been done.

I have just gone through the whole process again, only this time selecting S class for my flights.

Guess what the website does with that... yip, offer H class, with the upgradeable note, again.

It's because I love Virgin that this is annoying me so much!

[Darren Wheeler]

Booking tool is down until 05:10GMT...

And you can still select H class and get the upgradeable message.


However it's more difficult to ascertain if you follow the main booking screen, there seems to be an extra page in the new style. Unless I've missed something.

Well here is the tell ladies and gents..... Login to flying club go for spend miles>upgrade/companion flights in the booking window select premium economy lowest and there it is the class drop down menu - H as a qualifying fare!!! ii)

I still say they have to honour upgrades from this fare bucket.. 8D

[Neil]

Well here is the tell ladies and gents..... Login to flying club go for spend miles>upgrade/companion flights in the booking window select premium economy lowest and there it is the class drop down menu - H as a qualifying fare!!! ii)

I still say they have to honour upgrades from this fare bucket.. 8D

It has been there for a while now, and I pointed it out to Greg last week so nothing has really changed and VS still have a very easy get out if they wish.

It has been there for a while now, and I pointed it out to Greg last week so nothing has really changed and VS still have a very easy get out if they wish.

Yep I know, commented on this a while back. After Darren posted the booking tool was down I just wanted to confirm that this little farce is still being advertised.

Easy get out? Such as increase the YQ from an H fare ticket when it is being upgraded perhaps

In seriousness, if they start denying people an upgrade from an H to a G after advertising them as such, especially if they are up against someone willing to fight their corner, not sure how far their small print will get them... it will show remarkable bad faith and who knows may very well be worthy of a daily mail item :w . Regardless it would cause a headache easily avoided ii)

Let's see what happens.

Have emailed the Executive Office.

Let's see what happens.

Have emailed the Executive Office.

Please let's know what they say. All I see is H fares for PE.

I was speaking to the FC Gold line today about booking an upgradeable fare and she quoted me an "S". When I challenged that, she told me that it was an error on the website "at the moment..."

But, she did tell me that from next Tuesday it would be sorted out. When I queried whether that meant corecting the website's booking engine or allowing "H" fares to be upgraded, she told me the latter. Watch this space...

y) y) y)

[Neil]

I was speaking to the FC Gold line today about booking an upgradeable fare and she quoted me an "S". When I challenged that, she told me that it was an error on the website "at the moment..."

But, she did tell me that from next Tuesday it would be sorted out. When I queried whether that meant corecting the website's booking engine or allowing "H" fares to be upgraded, she told me the latter. Watch this space...

y) y) y)

While I hope you are right, from what has already been said by VS I think the agent has just made a mistake, VS said it would take a couple of weeks to update the website to remove the wording that a H fare is upgradable, and that still seems far more likely than them added H to the upgradable bracket.