I lost my VIRGINity today.

This is just a case of limited resources on a popular route, but this was always going to happen with only one A330 on that route in that con fig

'Partial Refund'? NO ! It is 75% for being bumped down under the EU 261/2004 regulations.

75% is a partial refund, is it not?

Well yes but the OP reported

we are told we can have a partial refund and fly economy, a smaller refund and possibly fry PE.....".

(my bolding)

and that was what I was referring to as a partial refund - the staff trying to make some sort of differentiation between a downgrade to PE and to Y and the the refund they would receive.

The EU rules are quite clear - 75% with no differentiation allowed for being bumped down one or two classes.

It is shocking that airport staff (whether directly employed or on contract) are so ignorant of the law in a topic that must come up on a regular basis.

Or is this VS policy to try and ignore the regulations ??

Poor Airline behavior has already lead to the tightening up of EU261 which come into force in January 2015. If they want to avoid a further tightening they need to start behaving properly.

I think VS have some sort of policy to offer less than 75%.

I say that due to the check in staff's offer and a reply Howard gave on Facebook to a customer affected

Sorry to hear about this Victoria, it seems we've had a technical problem with one of our aircraft in Barbados. This means we've had to change to an aircraft which doesn't actually have an Upper cabin. I will clarify though that any passengers who have been downgraded, will definitely receive a refund of the difference in fare.
Howard

(my bolding)

I'd be really grateful of anyone who is flying this route between now and Friday to keep us updated with status and whether they fix the original aircraft before Friday morning or alternatively replace it with a 3 class cabin.

If not then it looks like I may be bound for economy on Friday which would be disappointing as I've been looking forward to UC very much.

I think VS have some sort of policy to offer less than 75%.

I say that due to the check in staff's offer and a reply Howard gave on Facebook to a customer affected

Sorry to hear about this Victoria, it seems we've had a technical problem with one of our aircraft in Barbados. This means we've had to change to an aircraft which doesn't actually have an Upper cabin. I will clarify though that any passengers who have been downgraded, will definitely receive a refund of the difference in fare.
Howard

(my bolding)

So VS has a deliberate policy to break the law ???

Howard certainly cannot plead ignorance as he has dealt with plenty of EU 261 related queries in the past.

If this is policy then it is shocking and begs the question - what other laws and regulations are VS deliberately breaking?

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/tr ... tions.html

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/travel-information/customer-service/eu-regulations.html

Interestingly no mention of downgrading? Not that I can see anyway...

[Neil]

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/travel-information/customer-service/eu-regulations.html

Interestingly no mention of downgrading? Not that I can see anyway...

Yes, it seems they have decided to omit the involuntary downgrade part of the EU regulations from their website ii)

As someone who had this happen to me on a recent flight with VS, and being given the incorrect level of compensation by the airport team, it is frustrating to see that despite the assurances I was given by the CS department re extra training, when I queried and finally receive the correct level of compensation as per the EU regulations, the VS airport teams are still not notifying their inconvenienced pax correctly.

May I ask why people are willing to put their trips off by several days rather than accept a downgrade to PE (with partial refund/miles/flight voucher). Statements like "PE is not a option" perplex me.

Things happen, it's only a few hours in a metal tube. The folk who turn right don't bite.

[Neil]

May I ask why people are willing to put their trips off by several days rather than accept a downgrade to PE (with partial refund/miles/flight voucher). Statements like "PE is not a option" perplex me.

Things happen, it's only a few hours in a metal tube. The folk who turn right don't bite.

I don't think there is any need to turn this in to a class war.

Obviously some people want to fly UC (otherwise there would be the product on the market), and for a number of reasons and if they would rather alter their trip to still do this then it is their prerogative.

Hi jlucioli;

I am not sure what is normal on a Thursday flight but my itinerary has been saying a 3 class A330 since T-90 for Friday's flight.

Hopefully they are confident of a resolution by Thursday then with the 747 (maybe this is the normal aircraft on a Thursday or maybe this is one they are bringing in as an emergency) and then back to A3330 as planned on Friday.

Surely they wouldn't put you on Friday's flight if they weren't 100% sure that they could resolve the situation. If not then they run the risk of disappointing you twice.

I don't think there is any need to turn this in to a class war.

Obviously some people want to fly UC (otherwise there would be the product on the market), and for a number of reasons and if they would rather alter their trip to still do this then it is their prerogative.

I wasn't trolling. I realise people enjoy flying UC and they pay handsomely for the service. If I had paid for it and it was cancelled I too would be suitably annoyed (especially given the reports of poor customer service towards these individuals). However I'd accept the compensation and get on the plane rather than lose hours or days out of my holiday. If they want to do otherwise that's up to them, I just don't understand why.

I wasn't trolling. I realise people enjoy flying UC and they pay handsomely for the service. If I had paid for it and it was cancelled I too would be suitably annoyed (especially given the reports of poor customer service towards these individuals). However I'd accept the compensation and get on the plane rather than lose hours or days out of my holiday. If they want to do otherwise that's up to them, I just don't understand why.

Maybe people don't mind the loss of a couple days of their holiday? Or they might be able to add on a few days on the other end? People might not be going on holiday and what they do over there isn't time critical. Personally I would rather wait a day or two, or get the whole thing refunded and use miles with BA (if possible)
Many reasons why people act differently. I'm sure many did take the downgrade.

May I ask why people are willing to put their trips off by several days rather than accept a downgrade to PE (with partial refund/miles/flight voucher). Statements like "PE is not a option" perplex me.

Things happen, it's only a few hours in a metal tube. The folk who turn right don't bite.

I don't think there is any need to turn this in to a class war.

Obviously some people want to fly UC (otherwise there would be the product on the market), and for a number of reasons and if they would rather alter their trip to still do this then it is their prerogative.

I agree. As someone who struggled with Airsickness for many years, even though when flying PE on long haul I am now basically ok though tad groggy, on our most recent flight from NRT we were given an upgrade to UC at the gate and I had the best flight of my life in terms of only feeling a tad rough during the middle of the flight while at the bar however upon returning to lie down on the flatbed I felt totally fine after a few minutes. Next time we go long haul we booked to fly UC.

Hamster, gfonk thanks. Without context it was coming across a bit snobby.

@Fuzzy14
I probably wouldnt say "PE is not an option" however if I am only going to fly once that year and its a long haul destination that has been a year in the waiting I may well want to rebook for the next flight out in UC for example.

My commiserations with the OP and others who have been through this with VS. I feel your pain. My gripe with VS has always been that they simply cannot come any where close to the service on board on the ground. In the air, generally very good (with the odd rotten apple, but all airlines have them, and we all have bad days). On the ground, particularly CS, just dreadful. And IME, consistently dreadful!

As someone who works in the industry, I can tell you that ALL airlines screw up now and again - it is a complex business, loads of things are outside of the airline's control, and Sod's Law is a harsh taskmaster. But what separates a great airline from a bad one is how they deal with the fallout, and how their unhappy customers get treated. Would anyone say VS is great having read this TR - and others?

The 747 is scheduled for thursdays this summer with every other day fri-wed as a three class A330, so as someone has already posted VS must seem confident that the problem with the BGI A330 should be fixed by friday if they are scheduling it back.

Gfonk, do you take anything for your airsickness? If so, what? I've always suffered with motion sickness in cars, boats, buses etc but the last few flights I've started to suffer too. I wondered whether you could recommend a treatment (unless its UC, can't afford that!)

Hi Rachel,

I've found either Dramamine 2 or Scopoderm patches to work well, used both on a cruise last year to good effect when I normally suffer really badly.

I think you can only get the Dramamine in the USA, and the patches from your doctor.

Hope this helps.

Gfonk, do you take anything for your airsickness? If so, what? I've always suffered with motion sickness in cars, boats, buses etc but the last few flights I've started to suffer too. I wondered whether you could recommend a treatment (unless its UC, can't afford that!)

UC doesn't help -- in fact I now reliably feel worse in UC than in any other cabin (and no it's nothing to do with alcohol!). I think that the seat angle is part of the problem.

Gfonk, do you take anything for your airsickness? If so, what? I've always suffered with motion sickness in cars, boats, buses etc but the last few flights I've started to suffer too. I wondered whether you could recommend a treatment (unless its UC, can't afford that!)

Hi Rachel
I suffered terribly until I was about 26-27. I have been badly dehydrated from several 12hr bouts of motionsickness on all forms of transport. I decided in 2003 that I was going to try to overcome airsickness somehow, as I wanted to travel and found it so tough. Even though I love espresso, jus the smell of it on a flight would make me feel ill.
I dont remember the specifics but somehow on a short flight I had some lockets and found that sucking them when I felt sick helped me to fight it. I then took a flight to NZ on SQ and on each leg got through about 1.5 packets of lockets plus travel sick pills. I felt that in the past the pills never worked for me as I was still motionsick on planes. However after that long haul experience in which although I felt quite rough was not actually sick I began to fly to Tokyo and this time decided to ditch the travel sick pills but stick to the lockets. However sucking that many lockets has its downsides too so I think on my second trip I tried to avoid taking them unless I felt desperate. On my second trip I was also lucky enough to be upgraded to PE which I also noticed a masked difference in how I felt, psychological? maybe, who knows. On that trip I had only about half a pack. On the return leg of my fourth trip I didnt have any lockets at all. however on my fifth trip I still had a packet in my pocket and only after about 7 hrs of the flight did I take some. I know you wont like it but on my fifth trip earlier this year we were upgraded to UC on the return and I didnt take even one locket and I only felt a bit rough for about 10mins during the flight.
I find that if I am in a car/bus/train where I know I have a long journey I will still take some menthol sweets like lockets or an equivalent and they sort of help.
My method is by no means scientific nor medically proven and should only be taken as my random personal experience. Despite this I dont know if I am cured as I would love to do a trip on the QM II but....
Anyway all I can say is that touchwood I have not been sick on a flight since August 2003, since then I have done numerous flights.
Hope this helps.

Gfonk, do you take anything for your airsickness? If so, what? I've always suffered with motion sickness in cars, boats, buses etc but the last few flights I've started to suffer too. I wondered whether you could recommend a treatment (unless its UC, can't afford that!)

UC doesn't help -- in fact I now reliably feel worse in UC than in any other cabin (and no it's nothing to do with alcohol!). I think that the seat angle is part of the problem.

Really? That is interesting. I found the flatbed really helped. Being able to lie down was awesome somehow.

Oh dear this is a bit scary for my trip to MCO from MAN, currently a two config A330 but they assure me its a 3 config by October. Told me it would be a new one.

Hamster, gfonk thanks. Without context it was coming across a bit snobby.

It certainly was not meant to be "snobby" I am anything but. It was written late evening and after what was, for us, a stressful day. That sentence should have said that we considered that it wasn't what we wanted given that we were able to travel a couple of days later. We are fortunate to work for ourselves (downside is that we have to take work away with us on holiday) and can be a bit flexible with dates so that we had the option to travel later on and so the PE option wasn't so attractive. It is true to say though that we were very upset about the whole situation as we enjoy travelling UC etc. and plan and save for it over a period of time. Just our choice - rather spend our money on that than other things I guess.

I've always be a bit hesitant posting to forums as stuff can be misunderstood (or badly put in my case) but our experience seemed relevant to the topic.

I understand your side of the coin and to be honest probably would react the same in that situation.
It's easy for me comment without having been in that situation.

Hope you won't be hesitant to contribute to this forum.
I am still a newbie here and am really enjoying learning and hearing about others experiences.