Virgin to charge £25 seat selection fee for Economy

[Darren Wheeler]

Playing devils advocate...

Seating is always a contentious subject and firmly falls into the "can't please all of the people..." camp.

What is the solution?

Scrap pre-selection entirely and the seat you are given at check-in is your seat, no ifs, buts or swaps. Like it or lump it.

Free selection, but if your group is split up, again, tough?

Perhaps scrap the CAA guidelines on children being sat with parent/guardian as this seems to be the cause of some seat changes?


Ultimately aircraft have a finite number of seats in fixed locations and I can't see any method of a fair and equitable system.

When VS set out to upgrade its seating system (which feels like -- and probably was -- years ago), there was a spirited debate about what it would lead to. Charging for seats was certainly expected by some of us, so I suppose this latest announcement is not a surprise -- what's surprising is that it has taken them this long to do it!

It's a pity, though. Sometimes you feel that BA and VS are engaged in a race to the bottom -- the bottom being the way in which the US legacy carriers operate. In some areas this seems to deliver better results nowadays (discuss!), but paying lots of extra charges for things like seating (and what next -- checked baggage? food? alcohol? -- I imagine we'll see at least two of those in due course) is hardly inspiring.

My preference would be a strategy that differentiates with product and service to lure more passengers overall and therefore more revenue

Completely agree with that.

Free selection, but if your group is split up, again, tough?

I used to fly quite a bit on Cyprus Turkish Airlines, down to North Cyprus.

In the days of yore there was no seat assignment system, the seat you got was the one you grabbed on boarding.

Even now I can remember OAPs high hurdling rows of seats as if they were in an Olympic Final. Impressive stuff. y)

Start of a slippery slope towards charter airline charging approach

Next will be charging for drinks, then food then for using the toilets......bad form!

I don't have a problem with the principle of charging people who want to choose a seat. Airlines are businesses out to maximise their profits, not charities seeking to create a fairer world for everyone. If some people are willing to pay for an optional extra - which they clearly are - then why shouldn't they charge.

I don't quite agree you classifying the seat request service as an optional extra. You can also say any alcoholic drinks, food, amenity kit etc are optional extras too. What you are only paying for is a seat on a plane for VS to get you from A to B.

What a surprise!

I'd expect they won't bring it to UC as BA dont charge for seat selection in their highest cabin, though UC=CW...

How about a surcharge for polos and T10? They used to be free?

It's obvious though that the public don't care a jot about differentiated services etc. so what's an airline like Virgin to do, when what made it different is now seen as "risky"? Look at our High Streets: lots of safety: Costa, Starbucks, Sainsburys, Tesco. Foxtons, Premier Inn and Boots.


We like safe.
Safe is good.
Edgy is bad.

For Virgin to make it, they have to go mainstream.


And now Virgin find themselves in a world where BA are resurgent and growing, and have been charging you for seats for years, without anyone accusing them of being low cost. It also hasn't made people switch away.

This move was inevitable; I'm only surprised it took so long.

[Darren Wheeler]

It's obvious though that the public don't care a jot about differentiated services etc. so what's an airline like Virgin to do, when what made it different is now seen as "risky"? Look at our High Streets: lots of safety: Costa, Starbucks, Sainsburys, Tesco. Foxtons, Premier Inn and Boots.


We like safe.
Safe is good.
Edgy is bad.

For Virgin to make it, they have to go mainstream.


And now Virgin find themselves in a world where BA are resurgent and growing, and have been charging you for seats for years, without anyone accusing them of being low cost. It also hasn't made people switch away.

This move was inevitable; I'm only surprised it took so long.

Quite.

Recent airline history is littered with carriers that tried to be different. Eos, Silverjet, Maxjet anyone?

Ultimately, passenger can chose to pay it or not. It's not compulsory.

Wonder if it'll do something to improve the dire current situation with customers losing their seat requests. The VS Facebook page has gone ballistic in recent months with this seemingly being a #1 issue with VS standard "it was only ever a request response" every time. Yet other airlines don't appear to have a problem with next to no complaints?

On another forum, a comment was made that "VS are notorious for changing seat allocations" and on reflection, on all my economy flights the seat was changed before check in. I'm just not that bothered

I started flying with VS when BA introduced their charge for seat reservations. If VS start charging will move back to BA as I think that their service is usually more professional while VS service is a bit more variable.

[Darren Wheeler]

There have also been complaint along the lines of...

"Have just tried to check-in and there are no 2 seats together. We're on our honeymoon. This is discussing (sic). SHAME ON YOU VA."

To be fair to VS too, as they allow their FB page to used to raise issue, they are more public. I wonder what BA's page would be like if they allowed the same level of openness?

Singapore have similar complaints - https://www.facebook.com/singaporeair/p ... 3518488679
Emirates - Don't allow Posts by Others (PbO)
Qatar - No PbO
Air New Zealand. Allows PbO but no replies and page full of spam
Malaysia Airline - No PbO
Lufthansa - Allow PbO https://www.facebook.com/lufthansa/post ... 5183024004
Air France - Allows PbO but my French isn't good enough...
Most US airlines allow PbO, but their pages, including Delta, are complete train wrecks.

What an absolute shame. I like VS, they are my preffered carrier, for many reasons one of which being I thought they were above things like this. For me advance seat reservation is essential so all this does is add £50 to the cost of a return flight. BA do it, and its one of the many reasons I have little interest in flying BA.

My last economy flight with Virgin was £800 return, for an 8 hour flight. This is not 'cheap' or 'low cost' therefore I find the prospect of having to pay even more when I've already paid that much deeply unsatisfying.

[Darren Wheeler]

But you don't have to pay it. This is the key bit people are missing.

But you don't have to pay it. This is the key bit people are missing.

I don't want to fly long-haul without knowing I'm going to be happy with the seat I've got, so yes, I do 'have' to pay it because its an important part of the product for me.

Put it this way - a carrier which offered no seat selection at all would need to be cheaper by a large margin for me to consider flying with them.

So this really is simply £50 on top of every ticket I buy from Virgin in the future. Which is a shame. To pay £800 for an economy ticket and then be charged an extra £50 on top (Presumably it's £25 each way) to pick a seat in the same way I would be if I was buying a cheapo seat from Easyjet just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, exactly as it does with BA, who I avoid flying.

(1) I agree with the poster that said if this fee is payable that they should have all of the seats available for selection including the sets of two at the back of a 747 or all of the y section of the upstairs on a 747

(2) And again those without children are being penalised for getting what those with children get for free - that is sitting together.

What an absolute shame. I like VS, they are my preffered carrier, for many reasons one of which being I thought they were above things like this. For me advance seat reservation is essential so all this does is add £50 to the cost of a return flight. BA do it, and its one of the many reasons I have little interest in flying BA.

My last economy flight with Virgin was £800 return, for an 8 hour flight. This is not 'cheap' or 'low cost' therefore I find the prospect of having to pay even more when I've already paid that much deeply unsatisfying.

£800 return for an 8 hour flight, so that's £400 each way. Or £50 per hour. Our definition of 'cheap' and 'low cost' has been distorted over the years.

Of course, we don't know yet what Virgin will announce. But I kind of hope they don't do it on Facebook.

Even put like that it's rather expensive! Whats the per hour cost of a flight to New York or Australia? At the time, Emirates would have done the latter for the same money. The point I am making is that Virgin isn't a cheap airline - it's often an expensive airline. Which is fine, some things cost money. But when you fly with an expensive airline or pay a comparatively large amount of money you do not expect to be nickel-and-dimed for bits and peices like seat selection.

I can pick my seat for free when I buy a £20 Advance Purchase train ticket from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. I should be able to pick my seat for free when I buy an £800 air fare to North America.

Yes, BA do it. But shame on BA for that.

Even put like that it's rather expensive! Whats the per hour cost of a flight to New York or Australia? At the time, Emirates would have done the latter for the same money. The point I am making is that Virgin isn't a cheap airline - it's often an expensive airline. Which is fine, some things cost money. But when you fly with an expensive airline or pay a comparatively large amount of money you do not expect to be nickel-and-dimed for bits and peices like seat selection.

That was my point much earlier - yes VS has a bucket of fares that compare with some other airlines, but that bucket is small and pretty soon you're into expensive fare classes. VS is an expensive airline to fly for many, because of this it loses a lot of corporate travel, and as a consequence of charge additional fees will become more expensive. This classically is not a good story. Here for example is the comparison should you need to go to NY in January in Y for a non-Saturday work trip in Y:

And this is perfectly normal - yes there are considerations (short notice, non-weekend stay), but that is how most business travellers book.

For VS it isn't the case that it already is price competitive and this won't help ... AA, DL, UA don't charge either. The problem is VS is costly and needs to look at how to reduce it's cost base not charge passengers more.

Agreed, imagine paying that £1557 for an economy flight to New York and then being asked for another 25 quid each way on top to chose where you sit!

Don't worry Derek, I don't think there's any question of seats not being assigned. Everyone will still have an assigned seat but presumably VS will follow a similar pattern to BA where, unless you have status or pay in advance, you'll only be able to select a seat when OLCI opens.

Gumshoe, I am not concerned over un-assigned seats but I have always adored the pre-booked seats longhaul brings, and as so many are rightly saying, milking the public for certainty of sitting together is slightly wrong given the price of the seat to begin with. I would much rather they just slipped another £20 or so onto the ticket cost and left us with the feel-good factor of selecting our seats well in advance.

Having paid £3500 for a Virgin Holiday in April 14, last thing I feel generous enough to do is give them another £75 for the privilege of selecting my seats, however I would still have paid £3575.00 if you get what I am saying? However, ,,,,,the competition companies cost for the same location, same hotel same holiday was £2600.00 so I have already forked out £900 to fly Virgin,,,,,

BA don't charge a seat reservation fee on fully flexible fares.

I wonder if the same will apply with VS.

[Neil]

BA don't charge a seat reservation fee on fully flexible fares.

I wonder if the same will apply with VS.

From what I have seen, it will apply to all economy bookings, regardless of fare code.

However, unlike BA, VS won't be charging for PE and UC pax to select seats.

Neil

Confirmed then - though from May/June, not April.

This has just appeared on the VS website, here:

http://virginatlantic.custhelp.com/app/ ... /related/1

As ever it raises more questions than it answers: no mention of economy only; no mention of whether Ag/Au members have to pay too - and why is Tokyo the exception?

T-90 goes though - you'll be able to pay to reserve a seat from T-336, when booking opens - and you'll be able to book exit row & extra legroom seats online which is good news.

Between 18 December 2013 and 30 January 2014 you will only be able to assign seats for flights departing on or before 01 March 2014. For most flights between 01 February 2014 until 31 May 2014 seats will be available to select 30 days before departure and from 01 June seats will be available from time of booking. Seats can be assigned through Manage Flights which is available up to 24 hours before departure. To request seats before check in opens, please go to Manage Flights or contact your travel agent.

From 01 April 2014, customers flying between London Gatwick and Las Vegas will be able to pay to choose seats up to 336 days in advance. If you’re travelling to or from Tokyo you’ll also be able to choose seats 336 days in advance, free of charge.

• From 01 April 2014 exit row and extra legroom seats will be available to choose and buy from the online seat map up to 336 days in advance, on all routes.

• From 01 May 2014 customers flying to our Africa, Asia, Caribbean and Australian destinations will be able to pay to choose seats up to 336 days in advance.

• From 01 June 2014 customers flying on all routes will be able to pay to choose their seats up to 336 days in advance.

Please note: If you already have a seat selected for a flight that departs either before or after 01 April 2014 you will be able to keep it.

How much will advanced seat assignment cost?
The cost to assign a seat will be from £25 per person per flight (£50 per round trip) on Virgin Atlantic long haul flights. This is with the exception of our Tokyo route which will remain free of charge. There is no charge on Virgin Atlantic Little Red UK domestic flights.

Please note: For now you won’t be able to pay to choose your seat using Miles or Miles plus money, but we hope to be able to offer you this soon.

Golds will be able to book seats few of charge including exit seats and extra keg room seats.. This will include people on the same booking

Hmmm no mention of different travel classes so presumably it's a flat £25 across the board for Y, W and J. And I wonder about online check in. Free selection or just take what you're given...?