Virgin Atlantic are being heartless & cruel

I managed to get moved from VS23 to VS7 today so keep trying. If there is availability in the original booking class VS told me they would have no problem making the change. For me there wasn't but luckily I had a clever travel agent who managed to work something out for me and get me rebooked in the original booking class.

I think it is quite clear cut that a change of 3:10 is significant (the VS agent even said to me it was significant, although not officially!), especially as the flight now gets in quite late and can inconvenience onward travel plans. If they didn't have alternatives then tough luck, but the fact that they have a flight 1:20 earlier that would save the customer from significant inconvenience, why on earth would they not choose to actually help the passenger and rebook them. So simple and if they actually looked at the bigger picture they would realise this would be good for loyalty. Standing by their policy does nothing for them.

Anyway do keep trying, it can be done.

There are some very nice agents in the call centre, you've just gotta try and find them so I'd just keep calling. Good luck with this as IMO VS are in the wrong here

Hello again. I have tonight sent off an email to Mr Craig Kreeger outlining our problem and mentioning so many of your helpful comments. Honestly I am so grateful for all your support, thank you so much.

One point that has struck me which is not nice. I think VS treat us by the level of booking class we are in. For instance I have booked G fares, lowest level of UC available. I bet if I had booked either a sale fare or any other more expensive fare then they would have been far more accommodating. Makes me wonder what's the point of being a FC member and booking by using miles

I will keep you posted on any developments. Hev

[quote]If I accept the rescheduled VS23 arriving into LAX at 19.30, there are no flights with any other airline which could get us to Phoenix on time (ie for 6am on April 17th).

Hi Hev60,
I am so sorry to hear about your plight, changing flight times can be a nightmare. My flight to Chicago has been changed (less time in the clubhouse ).
One possible solution if all else fails - there is another flight with US Airways after your flight.
Your flight - 5735 - 7.40 arriving 9.01 pm
Next flight - 5757 - 8.45 arriving 10.06pm $121 one way. That would give you 1hour 30 mins to transfer. Not sure in reality how long it would take to transfer.
You could use your original ticket for the return trip. Just a thought.

Anna

When I rang both UC and FC neither of them were in a position to do anything but for e it's actuslly more of benefit, I don't need to leave Peterborough till 0610 rather than 0410 and I get to have both lunch and breakfast in the clubhouse !! Slightly annoying I won't get to the hotel till after 10 compared to 6-7 with the original times but I think overall for my plans it's better!!

I hope your email Hev gets some response as its not fair what they have done!!

I think you date was the 16th of April? Here is a load check if VS flights on the LAX route:

One point that has struck me which is not nice. I think VS treat us by the level of booking class we are in. For instance I have booked G fares, lowest level of UC available. I bet if I had booked either a sale fare or any other more expensive fare then they would have been far more accommodating. Makes me wonder what's the point of being a FC member and booking by using miles

I will keep you posted on any developments. Hev

If you have booked via miles then do a dummy booking for the earlier flight to see if there are any redemption seats. If there are no redemption seats, then there is not much CS can do as they are not the ones who release the seats.
I just done a dummy booking & there are only economy seats available for redemption - so maybe consider downgrading & then keep checking to see if it is possible to upgrade to a better class later if more become available?

or

Maybe you could look at cancelling the flight & getting your miles back & booking via another airline? possibly a partner airline to use your miles?

I have had nothing but good service from Virgin (at least when I speak to people in the Swansea call centre) for my booking using miles. They have even allowed me to use my single upgrade voucher for 2 people as I only require it for a single leg of a flight.

I completely understand your anger and hurt, for an important trip with well made plans that are less than straightforward. VS is unfortunately renowned for this kind of change and their lack of flexibility when responding to queries.

A couple of points to add to the above:
- The VS7 switches to a B789 from 26 April (I think) and I'm heading out on 24 April to LAX. I have observed clearly that VS's revenue team have withheld Z's on 789 flights to LAX for many days after the change of aircraft type. It seems dunderheaded to me, but they do sometimes behave oddly. As the dates come closer I am sure these will be released but if you're on a Z fare on 23, it is likely there are no Zs on the 7, which is a supposition for a reason why they've not been flexible.
- There are later flights from LAX to PHX, see:

And the fares are not terrible on SouthWest (which flies from T1 at LAX I think, so next T2 where VS lands:

In the worst case you could pay the additional $250 and keep your hotel and plans then try insurance.

However, I would try VS again by telephone and immediately ask to speak to a supervisor and calmly explain your schedule and plans and what the change means, and ask for their flexibility. You can try writing to the CEO too, and I would also go down the social media route.

[Neil]

It would seem your issue is the fact you are booked on G's. For VS to move you they are looking to see if there are G's on the 7, which there aren't. This is most likely why the went to revenue management to see if they would release some. Pax on straight revenue fares have an easier job of moving because there is more likely to be the same or very similar fare code to move them in to.

For me, this is where it is very frustrating booking using miles. It's great when you get miles seats on a popular flight/route, but it really leaves you with so little flexibility if plans have to change. It is even more frustrating that the plans have to change due to a change completely out of your control.

Keep on at VS and let us know how you get on.

Hmmn, I tend not to book onward flights when taking a reward flight from VS, but its interesting to know that this is a downside of booking a G.

I can't really add anything new beyond what other members have advised; I just wanted to say that I hope this can be resolved positively for you. I'm very fearful of booking separate onward flights for precisely this reason, I've noticed that VS seem to have schedule changes more than many other carriers. Last time I was affected by it I was fortunately book for an onward DL flught on one PNR and they changed my onward flight at no additional cost. I really hope they can accommodate you and am sorry you've had to deal with this.

Another vote for trying VS again, I have been amazed over the years how agents have such different levels of knowledge and helpfulness. Also social media.

Just also wanted to wish you the very best and hope it works out for you in the end. So frustrating when even the best laid plans are ruined from events out of your control.

Sadly the airlines still have the ability to screw over customers like this by changing plans with no legal recourse as long as its outside the 14 day window.

As tontybear says - the EU261 made airlines squeal, and eventually we will see some sort of legal precedent on schedule changes like this.

This is awful - really, really feel for you.

If I may offer some perspective - The very worst outcome here is that you loose your domestic flight booking with US Airways and need to take a different flight with the associated cost of that.

It's not fair, and the Virgin of old would probably have dealt with this differently, but you must not let it spoil your holiday.

Follow through with all the other suggestions made by the good folk of V-Flyer, I have nothing new to add to that, but just focus on the holiday, how much fun you will have and just accept that perhaps you need to pay for an additional flight to maintain all your hotel and event bookings. As others have shown, there are other flights you could take that evening to get you to PHX and get back on track.

In the final analysis, Virgin have no obligations here, you are just dependent on them demonstrating the kind of customer service we all once took as standard with VS and what, in part, made them so different and special.

It's not fair and I'm sure it's distressing, but focus on thhe holiday - and buy an extra flight if you need to - you may even be able to make an insurance claim, so keep all emails etc as evidence.

Meanwhile, Virgin may come up trumps, let's stay positive on that!

Please do report back with any progress...

I'm assuming that you are booked on AS4232 or AA5735?

A quick hunt on ExpertFlyer pulled up these possibilities for 16 April, flying into Phoenix Sky Harbor International:

AA 5757 0 LAX
04/16/15 8:45 PM PHX
04/16/15 10:06 PM CR9
F7 A7 P7 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M7 L7 W7 V7 G7 S7 N7 Q7 O0

Note Alaskan Airlines has a codeshare with American Airlines; it may be worth giving Reservations a call (1-800-252-7522) if your original internal flight is with AS?

VA (**) 6652 0 LAX
04/16/15 9:20 PM PHX
04/16/15 10:42 PM CR9
F4 A4 Y7 B7 H7 K7 L7 E7 N7 V7 Q7 T7


UA (**) 6453 0 LAX
04/16/15 10:25 PM PHX
04/16/15 11:47 PM CR7
F6 C5 A5 D5 Z4 P1 Y9 B9 M9 E9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 S9 T9 L9 K9 G7 N0

[Darren Wheeler]

I have exactly the same problem on exactly the same flights.

The earlier flight that is fully available (just checked) is very close to the original time but they would like £1031 to move our family of 4!

£1031 !

It's amazing they would charge any fee for such a simple change when they have delayed flights by over 3 hours.

Really poor.

VS Staff: Hi, you're chatting with xxxxxxxx. How can I help you?
VS Staff: Hi Graham, hope you're well today!
Graham: Hi, we're booked on VS023 on 25 July. I just got a text to say the flight is now leaving over 3 hours later, which is going to cause us problems travelling onwards. On your website I see there is an earlier flight on the same day - can we switch?
VS Staff: Oh okay I see, as the flight is under 5 hours then unfortunately we cannot switch you onto the earlier flight free of charge. There will be fees associated with amending the flight times.
Graham: That's not good. Do you mean the flight is under 5 hours different as it's a 11 hour flight?
VS Staff: No, as the schedule change is under 5 hours we're unable to offer re-protection free of charge Graham.
Graham: The earlier flight leaves at 11:15, which is only an hour different to our scheduled flight.
VS Staff: Yes, I understand but as per our conditions of carriage if we run a schedule change and it is under 5 hours then we cannot change you on to another flight free of charge. We can only do this if the schedule change is over 5 hours.
Graham: I see. What are the fees to change a family of 4?
VS Staff: Can you confirm your full name and booking reference please?
Graham: ***
VS Staff: Can you confirm the children's date of birth's please?
Graham: ***/2009 and ***/2008
VS Staff: Thank you, the change fee is £100.00 per person plus an additional collection for the adults of £168.80 per person and for the children the fare difference is £146.80 per child.
Graham: !!
Graham: Well that's our holiday plans ruined then! :-( Thanks for the info anyway.
VS Staff: Sorry to hear that Graham, I do apologise for any unintentional inconvenience caused.
VS Staff: Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Graham: that's it. bye
VS Staff: We look forward to welcoming you onboard, take care.
VS Staff: Thanks for chatting with me today. Virgin Atlantic really values your feedback about this chat. Please click the "End Chat" button at the top of this window and answer a few questions about your chat experience with us today. Enjoy the rest of your day.

I too would suggest Social Media - I had a problem sorted through Facebook immediately yesterday evening at about 11pm. This morning I spoke to a different agent on the phone and she also went to enormous lengths to ensure that there were no further problems.

Hi again. So many of you have suggested postings on VS's social media site Facebook?
But can I ask how this is done. Do you message them privately via the Facebook messenger? Thanks Hev

Post onto their FB page rather than sending a private message. Also, I would recommend Twitter over FB as they are a bit more proactive on there

I must admit, reading this thread has really made me feel quite disappointed with how VS is treating their customers. I am not affected but it is hard to see so many others who have had difficulties with the schedule change.

VS appears to have decided a 5-hour rule somehow (apparently not written into the Conditions of Carriage), which to a reasonable person would likely be a significant change, and is using this self-made rule to cover itself from all the (pretty significant) schedule changes that it's got going on due to the DL joint venture and the route changes. I can't believe that they are demanding customers to pay extra, who are willing to be moved onto a different plane of theirs...

I do hope that someone important in VS wakes up soon to change this, as otherwise it will certainly lose some loyal customers and put off quite a lot of people from booking future flights with them.

I am with all these people that are a bit miffed at VS attitude. I just didn't realise this, and most people do not expect to have to be fully conversant with the conditions of carriage. VS are just not doing the right thing and that is it. I don't do social media but if it happened to me I think I would sign up just to plaster it over FB and twitter and if they want to boot me off the flight then so be it.

I would guess here that VS will quite happily swap fare paying passengers but will need to wait before issuing more G's? That seems the logical way and also the way most businesses would work with a very limited product to sell,
It's unfortunate but I can understand it.

9.1 Schedules

9.1.1 Departure and flight times shown in timetables may change between the date of publication and your date of travel. We do not guarantee them to you and they do not form part of your contract of carriage with us.

9.1.2 Before we accept your booking, we will give notice of the scheduled flight time in effect at that time, which will be shown on your Ticket. We may need to change the scheduled flight time subsequent to issuance of your Ticket. If you provide us with contact information, we will use our best endeavours to notify you of any such changes.

9.1.3 If, after purchase of your Ticket, we make what we consider to be a significant change to the scheduled flight time which is not convenient to you, and we are unable to book you on an alternative flight of ours which is convenient to you, you will be entitled to an involuntary refund in accordance with Article 10.2 if, in our opinion, you have acted reasonably.

9.1.4 For the purpose of the rights and benefits conferred by Article 9, the minimum check-in deadline is 60 minutes before the scheduled departure time or, if longer, such other time period notified by us in advance of travel.

I think the have a blanket 5 hours is unfair.
My Boston flight was brought forward 3 hours - as I have to get a train to Heathrow, it means I now have to travel during peak hour & will see my cost at least double for the train. However, I accept that - as I am choosing to get a train.

However, it probably affects me more than someone living in Reading for example, yet someone in Leeds would be more affected than myself.

The Term is :-
9.1.3 If, after purchase of your Ticket, we make what we consider to be a significant change to the scheduled flight time which is not convenient to you you will be entitled to an involuntary refund.

I would say missing a connection is a big inconvenience to you!

The Term is :-
9.1.3 If, after purchase of your Ticket, we make what we consider to be a significant change to the scheduled flight time which is not convenient to you you will be entitled to an involuntary refund.

I would say missing a connection is a big inconvenience to you!

I guess the bit before which says "what we consider to be a significant change", i.e. 5 hours, is what they are using to get out of the refund.

I do wonder whether the 5-hour rule, if tested, would stand up in court. I'm not a lawyer by any means but would consider that to be unreasonable.

[Neil]

The thing is, Virgin have covered themselves by rule 9.1.3, which we all accept when making the booking, so it's very tricky to argue against it.

I too would suggest Social Media - I had a problem sorted through Facebook immediately yesterday evening at about 11pm. This morning I spoke to a different agent on the phone and she also went to enormous lengths to ensure that there were no further problems.

Hi again. So many of you have suggested postings on VS's social media site Facebook?
But can I ask how this is done. Do you message them privately via the Facebook messenger? Thanks Hev

Hev, twitter is the best social media approach because the post cannot be altered by VS or dumped as spam, unlike Facebook.

You sign up, follow them and then tweet - write your message. You have 140 characters and the whole world will see it, so make it count. You can of course write several messages but one captivating one will be best. What should happen is they then follow you and ask you to. 'DM' (direct message ) them. This means you can add personal details re the booking as only you and VS will be party to the message.

If you need help, just shout back this way.

The thing is, Virgin have covered themselves by rule 9.1.3, which we all accept when making the booking, so it's very tricky to argue against it.

While sad, I do have to agree with Neil and while they can bend the rules VS certainly do not have to.

I think I read in this chain that it is a reward fare(??), if that is the case have you tried, and again, I apologize if you have tried this, changing the reward flight the day or two days before?? the extra night for a hotel may be mean less in real terms than missing the trip.
I do hope it works out for you.