Flying Club Membership Changes

Well with all this VS trashing let's just remember some salient facts about the dark side in the negative (the 2for1 is one of the only things about BA that gets me excited):

- you can't use EC miles to upgrade from Y to J, one cabin only is the rule
- in J you can't have cheese and dessert :0
- in J you get a 50% chance of flying BACKWARDS!
- WT+ is leagues behind PE
- Galleries lounges in some flung outputs (including LGW) are dire
- the crew, well they can be a little testy
- what's the difference in the rate of lost bags again?
- strikes :#
- constant cutting of UK domestic connections - oh and where does BA fly long haul from any non-London city in the UK?

[Darren Wheeler]

Well with all this VS trashing let's just remember some salient facts about the dark side in the negative (the 2for1 is one of the only things about BA that gets me excited):

- you can't use EC miles to upgrade from Y to J, one cabin only is the rule
- in J you can't have cheese and dessert :0
- in J you get a 50% chance of flying BACKWARDS!
- WT+ is leagues behind PE
- Galleries lounges in some flung outputs (including LGW) are dire
- the crew, well they can be a little testy
- what's the difference in the rate of lost bags again?
- strikes :#
- constant cutting of UK domestic connections - oh and where does BA fly long haul from any non-London city in the UK?

Slinky. As always, an excellent summary.

The grass is always greener, until you realise it's actually a coat of green paint.

Oh, and the flying backwards in J reminds me so much of being on a train... :$

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I buy this 'BA is worse' as an adequate defence for Virgin 'un-improving' what they used to (but no longer seem to) describe as "one of the most generous rewards programs in the air."

Its still not bad, but its not as good as it used to be - and saying 'BA is worse' won't change that.

And slipping the change in requal criteria into a 'good news' email is frankly insulting. At least when SQ re-jigged their criteria they had the courtesy to treat their FFs as adults and explained the reasons why (revenue - fair enough).

- you can't use EC miles to upgrade from Y to J, one cabin only is the rule

Yeah, but one big thing in BA's favour is that you can upgrade to club from ANY WT+ fare (for 25,000 miles return, not 40,000 too!) - and the cheaper WT+ fares are around the same price as an upgradable economy fare on VS (especially so when there's a sale on!)

Downside being that after all that you end up in club world, not UC, but the point still stands!

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I buy this 'BA is worse' as an adequate defence ...

Oh dear, I was intending to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

But ... perhaps people need a big dose of reality check here, VS is going to be making some fundamental moves soon in a bid to remain competitive and viable for the long term. Joining a global airline alliance is one of them, and it will enforce change, some for the worse, but hopefully some for the better. If all you do is 2x a year to Mouse-land that change is not going to be beneficial for you.

Yeah, but one big thing in BA's favour is that you can upgrade to club from ANY WT+ fare ...

Indeed, but my point was simply to say, as Stuart did, that the grass is not always greener when doing a beauty parade of options.

But ... perhaps people need a big dose of reality check here, VS is going to be making some fundamental moves soon in a bid to remain competitive

How you remain 'competitive' by making your loyalty programme worse is beyond me. If they are going into an Alliance, why not announce the changes at the same time?

How much say does SQ have in the day-to-day running of the business - or is it simply an arm's length share holding?

How you remain 'competitive' by making your loyalty programme worse is beyond me. If they are going into an Alliance, why not announce the changes at the same time?

How much say does SQ have in the day-to-day running of the business - or is it simply an arm's length share holding?

That depends on your point of view, thing is, for some like me it's just gotten very much better. To be blunt, for frequent fliers things got better, for infrequents not so, and VS needs to concentrate on the former but not to the total exclusion of the latter.

On SQ it's very much arms length - however I believe certain clauses in the contract when SQ acquired its stake control some activities, such as not flying Virgin branded airlines into SQ's key cities in Asia ...

Yes I agree - a FF is for Frequent Flyers not occasionals.
Less people qualify for Gold the more pleasant the CH will be.
I am now getting more miles for flying the same amount so whats wrong with that.
Maybe some passengers will switch - gives more upgrade opps for me !
It is a business not public transport.

I'm a member of both VS and BA FF programs, Red on VS and Silver on BA. Whilst VS are increasing the threshold for maintaining Silver, it's still, in my opinion, easier to get and maintain VS Silver then BA's. And the service in BA is nothing compared to VS, hence why i switched from the BA.

I won't maintain my BA silver this year, but I'm not bothered at all, I'd rather get and maintain VS silver, as the service is far better.

Less people qualify for Gold the more pleasant the CH will be.

Then why not raise the qualification criterion?

To have fewer new Gold members?

Rather than penalize already loyal customers?

Now it looks like 'qualification' = 'requalification' - where's the 'loyalty' incentive in that?

[Decker]

Brings it into line with BA I guess

This is not all about status for me - I couldn't care less really. To qualify that, I'd love to get AU, but my funds do not stretch that far, and at the current time, I do no business travel. I therefore recognise that AU is out of reach - so doesn't matter.

Reaching AG as I did, meant I got slightly more miles for my flights, which went some way to making up for the fact that my daughter gets no miles - even though she sits in a seat and pays 75% fare - roughly speaking.

It's now harder to get AG - fact.

My daughter still gets no miles - fact.

I still love flying VS - it's got a very strong product offering and is superior in many ways to other airlines - particularly in the y and W cabins, which is where this creature and his brewd will normally be found - fact.

The overall deal, regardless of it's pros and cons, just got worse for me given my particular set of circumstances and constraints - fact.

So, having "bought in", by getting the VAA Amex card, doing shopping online via click-through whenever I can etc, I am re-evaluating - fact.

That's it

The pros and cons of VS as aposed to BA entirely depend on those same personal circumstances and constraints - many of the cons mentioned in this thread about BA simply do not apply to me, so my decision will be based on different sets of pros and cons.

I'm not knocking VS per ce, they're still the same company (at the moment anyway), it's just this change has disadvantaged - me.

Arguments about whether the thresholds etc for FF status levels are too low, too high, or about right are valid, but not when considering the "deal" I "bought in to" given one set of rules, which worked for me and has now changed.

What remains for me, is the question "why now" - that is fascinating me

Oh heck - I'd promised myself that I'd had my say, and would bow out of the debate, and here I am writing an essay

I guess I'm just urging everyone to realise, as Neil said much earlier in the thread, that everyone's personal circumstances, constraints, travel habits, travel companion age groups, etc are so different that we could probably agree to disagree rather than argue points from a different perspective - albeit, the debate is interesting to read.

I just don't get the strategy behind this move...I wish I could solve that riddle.

Right, enough already...

I just don't get the strategy behind this move...I wish I could solve that riddle.

And there's the issue!

On the one hand we have some glad that 'fewer oiks will be cluttering the CH - Hurrah!'

And on the other 'this will disadvantage me/my family/what price loyalty?'

But without any sensible context of why its being done we've got winners cheering and losers despairing.

What ever the reasons, its been poorly handled.

And to the happy corporate frequent flyers...some day you'll start paying your own airfares....

So the men in suits have redefined the criteria for achieving and maintaining status. I'm sure it has changed before and it will change again.

At least when you are in those tiers your benefits are defined and collectible (i.e you will get your clubhouse entry, you will get your extra bag, you will get your percentage uplift in miles etc.)

Now, when it comes to miles and reward upgrades are you guaranteed your upgrade or reward when you want it.? what's in it for the loyal infrequent flyer (especially one with a family.. 4Gs!!!)?

Imagine going in Sainsburys and being told you can't use your Nectar points today.

Imagine going in Sainsburys and being told you can't use your Nectar points today

Also imagine going into Sainsburys and being told that although you've spent a couple of hundred pounds, you're not going to get any points on your discounted items. In the case of VS fares - you can spend thousands of pounds on M+M fares and you don't get any miles whatsoever.

FC benefits seem to 'appeal' to the minority but for as long as VS get away with that -the process will continue.

So to previously keep AG you needed 2 UC legs, 4 PE legs or 5 CC legs.

Now you need something like at least two flights a year in a mix of PE/UC or at least three flights. Fair enough.

This is going to hit those who do 2 PE return trips a year the hardest without a doubt. The thing that gets me is that there are many people who have to pay for the whole family/other half, if they are going to do this, they should create a joint account facility.

This is going to hit those who do 2 PE return trips a year the hardest without a doubt.

2 trips a year is not a frequent flyer and the whole point of a FF program is about regular flyers. The whole FF industry is not aimed at occasional flyers and an airline cannot survive with such a customer base.
What do people who buy the product once or twice a year expect from the supplier ?

This is going to hit those who do 2 PE return trips a year the hardest without a doubt.

2 trips a year is not a frequent flyer and the whole point of a FF program is about regular flyers. The whole FF industry is not aimed at occasional flyers and an airline cannot survive with such a customer base.
What do people who buy the product once or twice a year expect from the supplier ?

If frequency were the whole story tier points would be the same across all classes of travel and fare types.

you are correct.

Frequency AND fare paid.

good business practice.

I don't think that it should come as to much of a surprise that this is related to joining a global alliance and normalizing the tiers of membership within that - it'll take more time than I have to work out how the changes relate to either *A or SkyTeam to determine which one it is.

Whether people like it or not, company business is the lifeblood of any airline. People who book at short notice, exclude Saturdays, in premium cabins, are buying tickets in the highest fare codes and contribute legions more in cash flow and margin per head than others. If anyone thinks that such people should be rewarded the same as the once a year flier, then some cold hard thinking about airline business models needs to be attached to that.

Do these Flying Club changes apply to members from all countries?

My membership account is based in the UAE and I have just renewed AU. Being aware of the August/September start dates, what do you think of this:

** VS have not informed me of any changes. Okay there is a link to ‘The Little Red Book’ on the UAE website, but as I am not currently planning any VS flights, why would I look. I only know changes are afoot because of V-flyer.

** My online accounts states 30 tier points by 31 May 2012

** All documentation that came with my new AU card (delivered today) is based upon existing arrangements

Surely they are not going to change goal posts during the year without directly informing me in advance?

Thanks

Looking at it a different way. Assume VS are roughly happy with the current number of status members in each tier. Could it be a positioning for a relaunch of the UK Credit Card with accruable TPs? Have they found the US offering has garnered significant loyalty? Other than the Regus card it's been quite a while since there were significant changes.

I have no knowledge on this, simply playing Devils advocate.

Just wait until a "Z" fare won't qualify you for CH access, unless you also have status within FC !!

Does anyone have a copy of the email that was sent out to AU members? If so, please can someone post it here. I don't get any mail from the FC despite setting my preferences correctly in my account and more recently speaking directly to the call centre.

Many thanks

Martin

ok, so as to keep this one going, as of today, the FC account page has been changed to add in the message about raised TP renewal threshholds, and removing the calculator that tells you how many TPs you need to renew (I guess a calculation based on membership year expiry date is far too hard to implement).

So, hands up all of you that have post-September membership year end dates, but have already heard that you have successfully renewed AU/AG at the lower threshholds... I wonder how Virgin will handle this...

RC