Au to Ag - Reckless Abandonment

Having completed my latest flight I have managed to regain Au status from a (effective) standing start in less than 6 months. This follows my losing Au status last August by a single flight (6 TPs) having held Au for the last 5 years.

Over the last 6 months I have had to endure 7 return flights with no CH access - and while this is not a big deal on the way out as I normally arrive at LHR quite late - I have really missed not being able to enjoy the JFK CH on the return trips. Indeed back in December, when I knew I had these flights coming I was quite tempted to switch to BA, simply because I would have lounge access after only 4 return flights rather than 7.

I am really pleased to be Au again but somewhat discouraged that I felt almost abandoned by an old friend for the last year and this leads to my question. Should VS recognise that even the most frequent of travellers occassionally have 'slow' years and introduce some kind of residual benefit for Au member that drop a level? This could take the form of small number (e.g. 4) of CH vouchers that could be used in conjunction with Ag status to gain personal admission to the CH.

I think the idea of CH vouchers with regard to Ag status has been touted before and I for one think that a single voucher (no guest) for all Ag would be useful. Extending this to a Au/Ag residual benefit would encourage ex Au'ers to stay with VS. Even for Au holders vouchers are very useful for those of us that do not always take our leisure travel in pairs and therefore cannot use the CH on family trips. The converse argument that always comes up is overcrowding in the CH but my personal feeling here (although I am sure it has been shouted down before) is to do away with the automatic guest option - If you give Au holders personal admission + 4 or 6 guest passes they can use them as they wish.

Anyway just some thoughts - maybe there is another way to provide a residual benefit to former Au'ers.

Phil FM

[Nottingham Nick]

I agree with an awful lot of what you have said, Phil.

There have been many discussions in the past about the structure of the Flying Club, and the benefits associated with the various tiers of membership, so a lot of your suggestions make perfect sense to me.

If we go back to basics, the purpose of elite levels of membership is to encourage brand loyalty. I think that the whole ethos of FC tiers should be re-done, so that frequent Premium class travel and very frequent Y class travel is rewarded accordingly.

For example, what incentive is there for a regular J passenger to fly on VS once he/she has reached Au level / renewal? Also what tangible perks do Ag members actually receive, other than PE check in?

I see the point of keeping the Clubhouse entry exclusive, but surely there is scope to offer some sort of voucher / discounted paid entry to former Au or current Ag members?

Nick

[preiffer]

If we go back to basics, the purpose of elite levels of membership is to encourage brand loyalty.

I'd agree in part, but it does something very significant to ONE particular group of travellers - look at the other airlines too.

The aim is to encourage high-revenue travellers to fly with you rather than your competition. Look at BA, UA, et al. They're shifting their models entirely to ecourage SPEND on, rather than frequency of, travel.

[Nottingham Nick]

I would agree that the top level of elite membership may be aimed at the high revenue fliers, but my point was that the whole ethos of having tiered membership is to encourage brand loyalty from different types of passenger.

Silver level appears to me to be aimed at fairly frequent economy fliers who just want their loyalty to be recognised.

Nick

[preiffer]

Ah, agreed Nick.

I think the concept of 2 lounge passes per Ag pax MIGHT work - it could give them a "taste" and the potential to convince them to spend more to move up to Upper/Au.

I'm just not sure what else you'd add to Ag membership to make it more attractive.

I'd also like to see Au members GIVEN 2/4 complimentary transfers per year, for use against ANY ticket. (or maybe at the 50/60 TP level) ie: if I take a Z fare on my own personal vacation, it'd be nice to make use of the service (if it arrives) for that one occasion per year.

[Nottingham Nick]

I think there are lots of little tweaks they could make to encourage loyalty. A couple of very quick thoughts are:-

The gold card events for example are a great idea, and could be expanded.

Lounge entry for miles is something to consider - make it members only for Silvers, allow Golds to bring in guests? Strictly capacity controlled, of course.

Space available upgrade vouchers on the lines of the Virgin Amex vouchers?

Once the new T3 improvements are complete - fast track security, dedicated check ins?

Contributors to V-Flyer have said time and time again that they WANT to be loyal to Virgin, but IMHO it is up to Virgin to give them this incentive. Firstly, and most importantly, with consistent levels of service / food but also with a frequently flier scheme that rewards frequent fliers (especially high spending ones) and not people who use their credit cards a lot. [:w]

Nick

This year,like last, I have come close to Ag.
Currently I have 9 TP's and have recently booked a trip to SFO. I could have easily booked a PE return earning me the required 6 TP's taking me to the 15 needed for Ag. However, with the use of miles I decided to book a "L" fare and upgrade to UC.
Point I am trying to make here is I don't really see the benifits of being Silver. A few extra miles and the use of PE check in really does not do it for me[|)].
Totally agree with what's been said so far, VS need another incentive to encourage people like me to become Ag. I would like to see Ag being able to buy entrance to the clubhouse.

-Steve

[mitchja]

Both BA and BMI give lounge access to Ag's. Not sure how BA works but with BMI Ag's get access on all but the lowest BMI fares. BMI lounges never seem over-crowded.

Why not make VS Ag a little more work to earn (ie needing say 20 TP's) but give CH/lounge access on all but the lowest N fares [:?] Just my thoughts...

Regards

[preiffer]

To be fair, there is a significant difference in the amenities offered in (for instance) a bmi lounge to that of the VS Clubhouse [:0]

First point: Hilton Kept me at Diamond this year despite falling far from the mark. The first time, I hasten to add, in 6 years. very kind of them, which is why they get my business

Second point: Whilst the lounge at LHR is indeed wonderous, next time you are in, have a count of seats.... There aren't as many as you think. It gets ultra crowded in there from time to time, and whilst I am lucky to be gold, and whilst if I was silver, I'd love lounge access, I can see why it's gold or UC only. Take a look at the so called 'priority line' for the security check at 11am. It's not what you'd call a fast moving line!

I do think, however, for silvers, a coiple of vouchers a year for lounge access would be a great idea!

[HighFlyer]

I think giving a number (say, 2-4) Clubhouse passes on Silver renewal would be a great idea and very easy to implement, and give Ag members that little bit extra without diluting Au.

Thanks,
Sarah

i agree they do need to beef up Ag i am 6 tier points short of Ag but the advantages of Ag are not worth the spend required as we only travel for pleasure . P.S. the site looks much better on a mac than windows!!!!!

[Darren Wheeler]

I like the idea of a couple of CH tickets for Ag members. Certainly a little fringe benefit even if it was to cost say, £20.

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by HighFlyer
I think giving a number (say, 2-4) Clubhouse passes on Silver renewal would be a great idea and very easy to implement

VERY easy to implement. Add to or change the HEX/GEX upgrade vouchers to CH vouchers.

Now here comes the questions:

Would you favor of these vouchers being limited to the LHR CH or CHs worldwide?If there are two vouchers given; would you be in favor of the ablity to buy addtional vouchers for people traveling with you on the same PNR (must use atleast one given voucher)? If so at what cost? What about SSAs? Would that be given CH vouchers? Would you be in favor of a FlexVoucher that would allow either CH access or a GBP95 Y to W upgrade only confirmed at checkin? If you do not get the upgrade you get the CH and walk away happy.

[ChuckC]

An excellent thread, Phil, and a real opportunity for VS to do some productive lurking.

If you look back at the dawn of the airlines' FF programs there were really quite a few extras for passengers who flew more miles. The early Premier Executive on United, for example, used to receive a personal escort from the Red Carpet Club to his or her seat on the aircraft (the Premier Exec would be equivalent to Gold on VS). United also always had fresh flowers for each first and business class meal tray; true, the flowers were low cost carnations, but the thought was there.

What we're really talking about is loyalty. The basic question for VS is "what's it worth?"

Chuck-

[preiffer]

Originally posted by ChuckC
What we're really talking about is loyalty. The basic question for VS is "what's it worth?"

About £2.5k a ticket, Chuck [:0]

I echo, an excellent thread albeit one that comes up infrequently but regularly. I myself am very much in favour of FC revising the bands and benefits, having renewed Au within six weeks of the new year like others I see no great benefit in remaining loyal to VS for the next twelve months, I could easily go for Gold on BA or another if I wanted to try to get used to that (and one reason I don't is because I am a miles addict who loves to book holidays in UC all on miles).

Some things I might like to see:

- Au and Ag points levels to rise, Au to 50/60 (50 makes it comparable with BA Ag where I think you need five long haul Club flights) and Ag to 20 to compensate for extra benefits which should be meaningful (i.e. not HEX vouchers)
- Au's to be able to book exit rows / front row of PE online (AA have offered this for years and I think it's a good one when we have to travelling PE or Y)
- complimentary upgrades / transfers when renewing subject to availability, so for Ag renewal 1/2 upgrades to PE from Y and for Au from any class one up
- Ag a couple or more of CH vouchers
- I'd actually do away with events and spend the money on better service for top fliers
- and put more emphasis into the little touches, like in Napa Matt's recent TR why not ensure that priority boarding is clear and free even if just at Heathrow

[Decker]

As has been said - a perenially interesting topic. As Slinky so neatly encapsulates so much of what has gone before I'll take the shoulders of giants approach and bounce off his!

Au takes slightly more effort to get than BA Ag - Ag requires 600 TPs or 5 long haul legs in Club. Au requires 40 TPs or 8 long haul legs in UC. So VS Ag is really not represented on the BA scale, we have a strange situation where VS Ag = 3/5 of BA Ag and VS Au = 8/5 of BA Ag. Trouble is BA Au is onerous in the average VS traveller's terms, being 1500 TPs (and I am confused as to whether upon reaching Ag this zeros down making it actually 2100 TPs in a year).

The online booking for Au's is such a good idea (BA even allow this for their lowly Ags) that I can only assume the technology is the barrier.

Upgrades would be much more welcome than companion fares - and preferably two so that the partner can potentially benefit.

Again CH vouchers for Ag seems like a good idea and one which might not cost alot. In fact abolish paid entry for VH and make the CH passes transferable. EBay here we come...

Most Events seem to be for the GBVTOP flyers at the moment in any case so the only people hacked off by abolishing them would be the people who represent most of VS's regular income... oh wait...

Priority Boarding should just work. Period. Non negotiable. The issue I suspect is that the lounges work differently here. In the US the gate effectively IS the lounge so by the time it comes to be boarding everyone is there and they can ANNOUNCE the boarding order and enforce it there. Here we NEED two policed queues. Now frequently we see only one member of ground staff policing these two queues. Whose decision is this? Are VS charged for 2 but only get one or are they chosing to only pay for one?

Trouble is BA Au is onerous in the average VS traveller's terms, being 1500 TPs (and I am confused as to whether upon reaching Ag this zeros down making it actually 2100 TPs in a year).

It does indeed zero down once you hit the 800 TPs for Ag and you then have a further year to earn another 1500 TPs for Au. From no status it is 2100 TPs.In both membership levels you have to have 4 TP earning flights on BA metal to be promoted.We had a situation with Junior who had over 2000 TPs but did not have the required 4 legs on BA metal to be promoted to Au.When she took the 4th leg on BA she was then promoted but lost all the TPs over the 1500.When you first make gold your membership year resets again and you have 12 months to hit the 1500 for renewal.In subsequent years the TPs do not zero when you hit 1500 but at the end of the membership year.

[ChuckC]

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by ChuckC
What we're really talking about is loyalty. The basic question for VS is "what's it worth?"

About £2.5k a ticket, Chuck [:0]

Ah, aren't you the smart one![oo]

As to Decker's point regarding priority boarding, point well taken. This type of benefit should be zero cost to the airline, yet clearly worth something to the frequent flyer and premium pax too.

Chuck-

I agree with Slinky, it would be ok with me if the TP requirements for Au (and Ag) were a bit higher - if coupled with more meaningful benefits. I'd like to add to the wish list an on-line priority queue (wait-list) for upgrades (like the major US carriers do). Priority in the queue based on both FC status and the fare paid.

Some of the enhancements suggested would require Virgin to improve the robustness of its web page services. Perhaps a little money spent in a remake of the web and database behind-the-scenes stuff would go a long way. I can't believe that we still have to call to get mileage and TP credit for flights when the seat is upgraded, for example!

[Scrooge]

That would mean spending money, Vs's IT is seriously lacking as it is.

Originally posted by casey0999
I agree with Slinky, it would be ok with me if the TP requirements for Au (and Ag) were a bit higher - if coupled with more meaningful benefits. I'd like to add to the wish list an on-line priority queue (wait-list) for upgrades (like the major US carriers do). Priority in the queue based on both FC status and the fare paid.

Some of the enhancements suggested would require Virgin to improve the robustness of its web page services. Perhaps a little money spent in a remake of the web and database behind-the-scenes stuff would go a long way. I can't believe that we still have to call to get mileage and TP credit for flights when the seat is upgraded, for example!

Absolutely agree. But as Scrooge has pointed out, VS's investment in its Web portal is shall we say, lacking.

I agree with you decker - AU (and indeed AG) in Virgin seems too easy to obtain compared with other airlines - perhaps they will tighten up AG and AU and at the same time adopt some of the BA perks offered !?
Just a thought !
Cheers,
Ian

[preiffer]

So, Ag at 25TP's, Au at 60? [:w]