Tax (fuel!!!)

When I booked flights in August - the extra tax on the flights were 152. I have just been quoted taxes of 212 for a flight in July. A 60 per person tax increase is HUGE - howcome this increase seems to have slipped by with nobody jumping up and down about it! (except me!)

[fozzyo]

For me its one of those can't do anything about it issues. If you don't pay the 'charges' you don't fly - no matter which airline you choose you still have to pay them.

Mat

[Nottingham Nick]

fozzyo is right - there is not a lot we can to about it.

Unfortunately - in August '07 Oil was $70 a barrel. Last month, it hit $110 , though it is down to 'only' $105 now. [n]

I think we can get ready for an awful lot of 'unfair' price rises - and not just in the aviation field. Looking at how the price of wheat has surged - I think our low inflation days are seriously numbered. [V]

The good news is that though taxes are increasing, you can immediately see their benefit to society.

Lower waiting times at the NHS...better schools...gang violence practically eliminated...effective border controls enforced...affordable housing for all throughout Britain...vastly increased rail service quality...

Erm...wait...

Nevermind.

GJ

[RichardMannion]

But GJ, surely the longer waiting times at the NHS are in fact helping society?

Your Grace,

As long as it's the lame and infirm of mind shuffling off the coil whilst waiting, I can see your point.

GJ

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
The good news is that though taxes are increasing, you can immediately see their benefit to society.

Lower waiting times at the NHS...better schools...gang violence practically eliminated...effective border controls enforced...affordable housing for all throughout Britain...vastly increased rail service quality...

Erm...wait...

Nevermind.

GJ

and oil companies who earn billions of dollars in profits yet selflessly donate them to r and d....

rr[:?]

Beginning of June 2007 the fuel surcharge on VS flights (to HKG) was only £40.50 one way. Today the same YQ charge is £66.50 meaning in the space of ten months you now pay an extra £52 on a return ticket LHR-HKG-LHR. Ouch! [B)]

However, I recently booked a semi flexible one way ticket from HKG-LHR. The VS YQ charge on my e-ticket itinerary is only HK$508!!! That's roughly half the cost of the YQ charge ex-UK (about £33). Work that one out!

Originally posted by musicmanbrain
When I booked flights in August - the extra tax on the flights were £152. I have just been quoted taxes of £212 for a flight in July. A £60 per person tax increase is HUGE - howcome this increase seems to have slipped by with nobody jumping up and down about it! (except me!)

I thought most of these rises were due to fuel surcharges rather than tax ?

Paul

(edited for a missing 't' and to correct Starbucks induced gobbledegook)

Here's the problem I have with Fuel surcharges.

While I have no problems with airlines compensating for sharp and unexpected fuel price increases with the levying of surcharges you have to ask at what point the 'normal' fuel price should be factored in to the standard price, or are we forever going to be paying a fuel element as a surcharge? How far back does some of the current surcharge go? I suspect, cynic that I am, that airlines use this surcharge as a way of increasing revenue.

In particular if I fly with an airline and pay a fuel surcharge should not the miles I recieve from the flight include a similar allowance for fuel? Why then do I need to pay another surcharge when I redeem the miles, effectively we don't get loyalty rewards on fuel. The value of mileage tickets is continually being eroded and on some redemptions the tax/fees are over half the price of a standard ticket.

FM

Since corporate discounts are based on the before tax price (AFAIK) with the airlines putting the fuel surcharge under taxes they get excluded from the discount.

As above - yes - this is about the Fuel Sups. An increase of £60 per person on a return leg (thats the fuel supplement increase since last August with VS) means about an extra £24,000 income for VS per return flight. Ok, fuel has gone up - but not by as much as that (by a LONG shot). Given the recent press with VS and BA about fuel surcharges, I would have thought VS might be a little more careful about this.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by musicmanbrain
As above - yes - this is about the Fuel Sups. An increase of £60 per person on a return leg (thats the fuel supplement increase since last August with VS) means about an extra £24,000 income for VS per return flight. Ok, fuel has gone up - but not by as much as that (by a LONG shot). Given the recent press with VS and BA about fuel surcharges, I would have thought VS might be a little more careful about this.

You know how much fuel a 747-400 holds right? I know how much more it costs to fill my gas guzzler with its 65 litre tank, so when you're talking ~240,000 litres [;)]

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/15087

[Scrooge]

Richard, your also putting unleaded into it, not jet fuel which is a lot cheaper...or used to be least..

At about $6 a US gallon - figure about £180,000 to fill her up!
The fuel surcharge covers not much over 10%

Originally posted by Bill S
At about $6 a US gallon - figure about £180,000 to fill her up!
The fuel surcharge covers not much over 10%

You're assuming that each flight requires a full load. Having looked around a bit I am computing on a figure of around £.50 per litre and consumption of around 16 litres of fuel per mile.

That puts an East Coast US flight (Ex LHR) at around £30k of fuel. I guess the fuel surcharge has to consider average loads rather than everything sold to capacity and that longer flights might be higher cost but the subsidy on balance seems high.

FM

P.S. Edited to include better knowledge of fuel prices by Slinky [:)]

Originally posted by Bill S
At about $6 a US gallon - figure about £180,000 to fill her up!
The fuel surcharge covers not much over 10%

$3.19 a gallon currently for aviation fuel - less if the airline has successfully hedged for this period. See here, scary stuff and up 62% on this time last year.

So to fill up a 747 = $153k or £78,000 (5 litres a gallon, 240,000 gallons, $1.95:£1 exchange)

If a LHR 747 is full that's 344 seats x £60 = £20,640 fuel surcharge increase so 30%+ of the cost. Reduce by loading average. So, using FM's good calculation, the surcharge may at most equal a 1/3 of the price of fuel for a US East coast flight.

Hope that works [:?].

I just went on the VS Web site to check the fuel surcharge and got quoted a price of £268 to New York in two weeks in economy, that's made up of £72 for the flight and £196 for the surcharges [:0][:0][:0].

Originally posted by slinky09
I just went on the VS Web site to check the fuel surcharge and got quoted a price of £268 to New York in two weeks in economy, that's made up of £72 for the flight and £196 for the surcharges [:0][:0][:0].

Interesting - I'd not noticed that fare breakdown feature before. A bit like saying 'this is what we would be charging you if it weren't for BAA, the government and the oil companies / commodity speculators'...

Paul

Originally posted by slinky09
I just went on the VS Web site to check the fuel surcharge and got quoted a price of £268 to New York in two weeks in economy, that's made up of £72 for the flight and £196 for the surcharges [:0][:0][:0].

Absoloutly and a miles redemption (40k) will save you the £72 but not the surcharge. [?]

FM

Careful on the price calculations - Fuel prices are often quoted as refinery door price not airport average prices although I fully agree that airlines will probably be paying much less than that at the moment. Hedge prices are rising even faster than spot price.
Also the price is per US gallon - only 3.78 litres in a US gallon.
747-400ER has fuel capacity of 241,140 litres
We should also remember that quite a bit of freight is carried - its not just the pax who pay the fuel bill.
Whatever way we look at it the fuel price rises are really hurting. And there is every possibility of steep rises to come.
If anyone wants to calculate trip fuel usage try here

Incidentally, what justification is there for charging a full fuel surcharge on an infant ticket when they are not even occupying a seat and may weigh as little as 5-6 kilo. I checked a Y infant fare to NY and VS want £16 for the ticket and £136.50 for the supplements including fuel surcharge.

FM

Glad to see my question has sparked such a mathematical debate! I agree with the person who was questioning the actual amount that the flight costs (without all the charges). Is it the case now that the basic flight cost does not include fuel? After all - its not as if you can fly without the fuel surcharge, so why not just include it in the basic flight price? To me this is a bit like selling a car, but then charging you a surcharge to put an engine in it!