quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
All very true, however LH know what the slots / aircraft are worth, so I can't see them losing money on the deal just because, in the end they will shut BMI down and liquidate it first.
They would not wish to give BA even greater advantage at LHR
All very true, however LH know what the slots / aircraft are worth, so I can't see them losing money on the deal just because, in the end they will shut BMI down and liquidate it first.
They would not wish to give BA even greater advantage at LHR
I did raise an eyebrow at the reason for the sale, to avoid a downgrade on their credit rating....
quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
I did raise an eyebrow at the reason for the sale, to avoid a downgrade on their credit rating....
Which seems a smokescreen to excuse what may have simply been a bad deal for LH?
Time will tell, I could see a partial break up with LH keeping some prime slots, maybe selling some others but the majority to VS. The slots may have value, but many are not at prime times however.
Then their's SRB's comment about not buying companies whose culture is misaligned with VS, it'd be a lot of work ...
I did raise an eyebrow at the reason for the sale, to avoid a downgrade on their credit rating....
Which seems a smokescreen to excuse what may have simply been a bad deal for LH?
Time will tell, I could see a partial break up with LH keeping some prime slots, maybe selling some others but the majority to VS. The slots may have value, but many are not at prime times however.
Then their's SRB's comment about not buying companies whose culture is misaligned with VS, it'd be a lot of work ...
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
We had our Lufthansa rep in yesterday and they said:
'The newspapers usually get it right'
They then went on to say the LH will keep the slots at Heathrow they want, sell BD to whoever will buy it and then enter into a new agreement with VS that uses their bases in Austria, Italy, Germany and Switzerland for the feeder flights to the UK and then use VS as a Transatlantic partner.
BD has only 2 profitable routes which don't fit into Lufthansa so why would they want it.
I think it was a loss making exercise from the start to get LHR slots that were valued at a lot more than they are now worth.
'The newspapers usually get it right'
They then went on to say the LH will keep the slots at Heathrow they want, sell BD to whoever will buy it and then enter into a new agreement with VS that uses their bases in Austria, Italy, Germany and Switzerland for the feeder flights to the UK and then use VS as a Transatlantic partner.
BD has only 2 profitable routes which don't fit into Lufthansa so why would they want it.
I think it was a loss making exercise from the start to get LHR slots that were valued at a lot more than they are now worth.
Move to the red side...
Please hurry up and buy BMI and get some flights from edi to lgw to feed the b&s routes [y]
BA's flights from lgw to edi 8am, 12am, 17.10 and 21.05
With the delays from MCO - no chance of getting the 8am so you hang around trying to stay awake till 12 and if that ones full, like it was yesterday and is most days, you have to wait till ten past five - just hopeless[n].
David
BA's flights from lgw to edi 8am, 12am, 17.10 and 21.05
With the delays from MCO - no chance of getting the 8am so you hang around trying to stay awake till 12 and if that ones full, like it was yesterday and is most days, you have to wait till ten past five - just hopeless[n].
David
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Bmi don't currently fly from Scotland to Gatwick and I would doubt that they would ever plan to... especially as they didn't when times were good.
yeah, unfortunately they don't, so you have only BA or easyjet which is even more expensive when you start adding on all the extras.
Its amazing how many people you do see on the BA flights to EDI that have just come off a VS flight - there is definately a market for a feeder service. Look how the Glasgow flights are pretty solidly booked with the few the VS have.
You can but dream ....
David
Bmi don't currently fly from Scotland to Gatwick and I would doubt that they would ever plan to... especially as they didn't when times were good.
yeah, unfortunately they don't, so you have only BA or easyjet which is even more expensive when you start adding on all the extras.
Its amazing how many people you do see on the BA flights to EDI that have just come off a VS flight - there is definately a market for a feeder service. Look how the Glasgow flights are pretty solidly booked with the few the VS have.
You can but dream ....
David
quote:Originally posted by David
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Bmi don't currently fly from Scotland to Gatwick and I would doubt that they would ever plan to... especially as they didn't when times were good.
Its amazing how many people you do see on the BA flights to EDI that have just come off a VS flight - there is definately a market for a feeder service.
You can but dream ....
David
I hate to pour cold water on your dreams... [:#] but... I am sure bmi are aware of the amount of business they get on the Heathrow service, to connect to VS flights. And have probably done their sums.
I think there's more change of VS enhancing their Glasgow services before starting domestic flights if they get their hands on bmi.
The current Glasgow VS services are very busy because they have basically cherry picked the most popular dates to operate on.
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Bmi don't currently fly from Scotland to Gatwick and I would doubt that they would ever plan to... especially as they didn't when times were good.
Its amazing how many people you do see on the BA flights to EDI that have just come off a VS flight - there is definately a market for a feeder service.
You can but dream ....
David
I hate to pour cold water on your dreams... [:#] but... I am sure bmi are aware of the amount of business they get on the Heathrow service, to connect to VS flights. And have probably done their sums.
I think there's more change of VS enhancing their Glasgow services before starting domestic flights if they get their hands on bmi.
The current Glasgow VS services are very busy because they have basically cherry picked the most popular dates to operate on.
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
That was the manchester route in its second year - we had the dubious pleasure of that experience - a plane white (think an ex air india) jumbo with no ife [n].
However, your right, they have cherry picked the dates - they are also losing out to a huge number of people now flying continental from edi / gla to ewr and then onward to mco.
David
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
That was the manchester route in its second year - we had the dubious pleasure of that experience - a plane white (think an ex air india) jumbo with no ife [n].
However, your right, they have cherry picked the dates - they are also losing out to a huge number of people now flying continental from edi / gla to ewr and then onward to mco.
David
quote:Originally posted by David
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
That was the manchester route in its second year - we had the dubious pleasure of that experience - a plane white (think an ex air india) jumbo with no ife [n].
I am not sure that is 100% correct. I remember VS leasing a 767 of Martinair for the MAN routes one year and I believe they also used a couple Air Atlanta Icelandic 742's for a season (prior to them joining the VS fleet on a long term lease, IIRC 'Island Lady').
quote:
However, your right, they have cherry picked the dates - they are also losing out to a huge number of people now flying continental from edi / gla to ewr and then onward to mco.
VS will be well aware how CO are performing and how many passengers connect to MCO.
You cant really compare CO's operations ex GLA with those of VS. The reason being is that CO rely heavily on connecting passengers on the EWR flights, most passengers will not be staying in NYC for the majority of their stay (rather like EK with DXB). However the passengers on GLA-MCO for VS will all be O&D passengers.
VS have cherry picked the dates because they are well aware that they could not sustain a weekly service all year round, CO can do it because when there are less people flying to MCO (ie term time) there will be more people flying to Denver for skiing or NYC for weekend breaks or connecting down to South America or connecting to MIA for winter cruises etc. This is exactly how CO can operate from the regions in the UK but BA can't. CO operate on the policy that they can 'suck up' all passengers heading to the America's from BRS/GLA/BFS/EDI/BHX exactly in the same way that EK 'suck up' all passengers heading to Australia/NZ/Far East/Africa from GLA/EDI/BHX/NCL etc.
VS can't do this- hence the lack of expansion in the regions and cherry picking. When CO are seeing healthy loads all the way through to MCO ex GLA on a consistent basis, you can bet any money VS will be adding more frequencies.
Anyway back OT.....BD and VS....heard a million times before, believe it when I see it!
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
That was the manchester route in its second year - we had the dubious pleasure of that experience - a plane white (think an ex air india) jumbo with no ife [n].
I am not sure that is 100% correct. I remember VS leasing a 767 of Martinair for the MAN routes one year and I believe they also used a couple Air Atlanta Icelandic 742's for a season (prior to them joining the VS fleet on a long term lease, IIRC 'Island Lady').
quote:
However, your right, they have cherry picked the dates - they are also losing out to a huge number of people now flying continental from edi / gla to ewr and then onward to mco.
VS will be well aware how CO are performing and how many passengers connect to MCO.
You cant really compare CO's operations ex GLA with those of VS. The reason being is that CO rely heavily on connecting passengers on the EWR flights, most passengers will not be staying in NYC for the majority of their stay (rather like EK with DXB). However the passengers on GLA-MCO for VS will all be O&D passengers.
VS have cherry picked the dates because they are well aware that they could not sustain a weekly service all year round, CO can do it because when there are less people flying to MCO (ie term time) there will be more people flying to Denver for skiing or NYC for weekend breaks or connecting down to South America or connecting to MIA for winter cruises etc. This is exactly how CO can operate from the regions in the UK but BA can't. CO operate on the policy that they can 'suck up' all passengers heading to the America's from BRS/GLA/BFS/EDI/BHX exactly in the same way that EK 'suck up' all passengers heading to Australia/NZ/Far East/Africa from GLA/EDI/BHX/NCL etc.
VS can't do this- hence the lack of expansion in the regions and cherry picking. When CO are seeing healthy loads all the way through to MCO ex GLA on a consistent basis, you can bet any money VS will be adding more frequencies.
Anyway back OT.....BD and VS....heard a million times before, believe it when I see it!
quote:Originally posted by willd
quote:Originally posted by David
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
That was the manchester route in its second year - we had the dubious pleasure of that experience - a plane white (think an ex air india) jumbo with no ife [n].
I am not sure that is 100% correct. I remember VS leasing a 767 of Martinair for the MAN routes one year and I believe they also used a couple Air Atlanta Icelandic 742's for a season (prior to them joining the VS fleet on a long term lease, IIRC 'Island Lady').
The white jumbo was used for the second years' flights from Manchester before the 742's were used (originally VS owned and then transferred to Air Atlanta or it could have been the other way round[?])
The first years operation from manchester was a brand new a340-300 [y] which was strangley configured (no upper class). We were in row 1 listening to the announcement and I remember the stewardess correcting herself as she had mentioned upper then realised there was none [:)]
After experiencing the brand new plane, we booked the same route the second year and were dumped in this smelly old plain white 747 [n] (which aquired a new purple carpet in its second week - this was the only tie in to VS that you could see)
It was after that that VS moved to their own 742's
I never experienced the 767's so don't know where they fitted in about.
David
(apologises for the history lesson [:I])
quote:Originally posted by David
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
Didn't they get into trouble years ago when it transpired that VS were chartering another 'plane that wasn't even in VS colours?
That was the manchester route in its second year - we had the dubious pleasure of that experience - a plane white (think an ex air india) jumbo with no ife [n].
I am not sure that is 100% correct. I remember VS leasing a 767 of Martinair for the MAN routes one year and I believe they also used a couple Air Atlanta Icelandic 742's for a season (prior to them joining the VS fleet on a long term lease, IIRC 'Island Lady').
The white jumbo was used for the second years' flights from Manchester before the 742's were used (originally VS owned and then transferred to Air Atlanta or it could have been the other way round[?])
The first years operation from manchester was a brand new a340-300 [y] which was strangley configured (no upper class). We were in row 1 listening to the announcement and I remember the stewardess correcting herself as she had mentioned upper then realised there was none [:)]
After experiencing the brand new plane, we booked the same route the second year and were dumped in this smelly old plain white 747 [n] (which aquired a new purple carpet in its second week - this was the only tie in to VS that you could see)
It was after that that VS moved to their own 742's
I never experienced the 767's so don't know where they fitted in about.
David
(apologises for the history lesson [:I])
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