VS Skytrax 3* Downgrade

I can't see this mentioned elsewhere, sorry if it is.

What do you think of Skytrax decision to downgrade Virgin Atlantic to a 3* airline from last years 4* rating? It means VS are now rubbing shoulders with Philippines Airways, Continental and newly upgraded Transaero.

http://www.airlinequality.com/news/airl ... ngJuly.htm

Disappointed but not at all surprised. I read Skytrax passenger airline reviews and over the past year (at least) the VS ones have been dominated by disappointed holidaymakers flying on the old LGW and MAN planes. The reality (for them) is far from the shiny, sexy images portrayed in the recent advertising campaigns.

You can also note recurring themes in a lot of these reviews -- notably, disinterested crews who complete the meal service as quickly as possible then gossip in the galley, and poor quality food.

I hasten to add that this is not my experience of Virgin at all (I fly from LHR and not in Y), but I have always been struck by the strength of feeling in these reviews. Also, if you read frequent flying forums all over the place, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that VS have declined somewhat in recent years. Of course, this self-selecting feedback isn't a scientific sample nor is it consistently measured/measurable, but the straws in the wind blow in one direction.

I hasten to add that this is not my experience of Virgin at all (I fly from LHR and not in Y), but I have always been struck by the strength of feeling in these reviews. Also, if you read frequent flying forums all over the place, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that VS have declined somewhat in recent years. Of course, this self-selecting feedback isn't a scientific sample nor is it consistently measured/measurable, but the straws in the wind blow in one direction.

I am often surprised at SkyTrax reviews - compare them with the BA reviews and those for Virgin are often visceral, yet is VS in Y from LGW really that much worse? Well, I never fly VS in Y let alone Gatwick, and like you my experiences are vastly different. Sometimes I wonder if there's an anti-VS campaign on Skytrax ...

That said, we've all noticed the cuts over recent years, and VS has reached a point in its history when the onboard product needs regenerating, that is happening, but really VS needs to pull its finger out and accelerate that. I was disappointed that the cabin refits on the LGW fleet were delayed so much into 2012, so there's at least another year of the same.

I have flown Y from LGW in my time, and will again in Dec...on VS.

To be honest, the VS product in Y is no better, no worse than most mainstream airlines.

I have the feeling that this "downgrade" represents the dro in reality versus expectation more than relative quality of service and experience.

My willingness to return to VS time and again is more about the slightly quirky, fun aspects of flying with VS - yes, even in Y. There was always something just slightly different and more light-hearted about the VS product. (This was equally true of PE and UC).

Over recent times, much of that has gone - I say much, not all. And, it's probably gone the most from the Y product where the passenger experience is very similar to that on BA/UA etc...

Why? Well, that's a whole new debate, but I'd personally still put VS equivalent with BA (and above in some respects), but my expectations are still higher than reality.

Make any sense?

I agree with the previous poster. It's very dangerous to deploy a marketing strategy and website that shows the latest generation of products and services, but only make them available to customers using Heathrow airport. This is bound to lead to disatisfaction.

Sometimes I wonder if there's an anti-VS campaign on Skytrax ...

I doubt it; I think the disappointment is real. I agree with Concorde RIP that part of the problem is that expectations can be high. I imagine that quite a lot of people who fly from LGW to holiday destinations are spending (very) hard-earned savings on a trip the likes of which they will not be able to repeat every year. So it's a big disappointment when a special holiday starts with a grubby and tatty old plane. Also, if you don't fly frequently, the gradual degradation of the flying experience comes as much more of a shock. I didn't fly long-haul between 1998 and 2005 and I was truly shocked by the extent of the change in those years.

But there are other variables in the equation and they all change constantly.

For instance, competing products. Last week there was a thread on this website that was comparing AA transatlantic economy favourably with VS. I've seen good write-ups of AA F versus BA F. We all know that some Middle and Far Eastern carriers are rated higher than most European and American airlines. So you have to run fast just to stay still. Is VS running fast enough?

It's worth keeping Skytrax reviews in perspective, of course. If a flight gets one negative review, there may be another 200 passengers who were perfectly happy. However, the worrying thing for VS, in my opinion, is that frequently the complaints do not relate to aspects of the passenger's personal experience that only he or she would have experienced (e.g. rants about a particular exchange with cabin crew, or something similar). Instead, the complaints relate to things that are shared by everyone -- aircraft cleanliness, toilet smells, quality of food, huge mismatch of advertising and reality. That seems pretty worrying to me.

I should say again that I enjoy flying VS and have had consistently great experiences regardless of route and cabin ex-LHR.

I doubt it; I think the disappointment is real.

I think its real too. Flying Virgin still retains kudos with holiday makers who if travelling the leisure routes get tired planes and old IFE. I do think it takes the shine off the airline when the glossy TV adverts shows them an experience they probably won't get back in Y.

Every airline markets their latest generation product, who is going to put an old product on a poster or website? This is even the case with ME airlines who have new fleets, Emirates always market their first suite when the majority of passengers will never board a plane with the suite, or fly first class.

It's also been commented by many contributors are being censored or heavily edited before being approved for the website.

I dont know what the fuss is about. VS is in such good company as a 3* airline: Aeroflot, Easyjet, China Eastern, Ethiopian, Jazeera, Vietnam - what is all the fuss about ?

I do agree that overly slick marketing that promises more than you can deliver can only lead to dissapointment.
Where are the pole dancers in UC as promised in the advert ??

Hi folks

As you might imagine, we aren't happy with a 3 star rating from anyone. Customer feedback via our internal XPlane survey (the one you get in the envelope on board) is much more positive than the comments on Skytrax, plus TripAdvisor rate us 4/5 with 86% positive feedback. So the Skytrax survey stands out like a sore thumb, and we do wonder how they collect and process their data.

So a favour to ask of you. When you next fly on us, can you post your honest review on Skytrax and feedback here what gets published on Skytrax, versus what you originally posted please ?

Many thanks
Fergus
Virgin Atlantic eBusiness

Hi folks

As you might imagine, we aren't happy with a 3 star rating from anyone. Customer feedback via our internal XPlane survey (the one you get in the envelope on board) is much more positive than the comments on Skytrax, plus TripAdvisor rate us 4/5 with 86% positive feedback. So the Skytrax survey stands out like a sore thumb, and we do wonder how they collect and process their data.

So a favour to ask of you. When you next fly on us, can you post your honest review on Skytrax and feedback here what gets published on Skytrax, versus what you originally posted please ?

Many thanks
Fergus
Virgin Atlantic eBusiness

How do you decide who gets the on-board survey? I've seen them being handed out but pretty randomly. I've never been handed one in over a year of fairly regular flight with VS now.

Actually, posting a review on Skytrax and tracking back to what gets published might be a good exercise.

I might have a go later...

Hi folks

As you might imagine, we aren't happy with a 3 star rating from anyone. Customer feedback via our internal XPlane survey (the one you get in the envelope on board) is much more positive than the comments on Skytrax, plus TripAdvisor rate us 4/5 with 86% positive feedback. So the Skytrax survey stands out like a sore thumb, and we do wonder how they collect and process their data.

So a favour to ask of you. When you next fly on us, can you post your honest review on Skytrax and feedback here what gets published on Skytrax, versus what you originally posted please ?

Many thanks
Fergus
Virgin Atlantic eBusiness

Fergus - take the point about the other surveys, but these customers do exist and did have those experiences, so you can't bury it. Plus, how do you know that those positive XPlane surveys are the ones the crew decided not to throw in the bin, as has been heard of happening?

Hi Fergus I have posted my good and average/poor flight reports on skytrax and they are word for word as I wrote them.

In my eyes it would have been better not to have posted your request, as to me it says self denial and hardly humble of VS to not accept criticism where its due.(Or maybe its not as far as VS are concerned)

You should be saying to yourselves that yes we can do better instead, you would rather jump on the conspiracy theories that all those pax want to muddy your reputation and that skytrax are manipulating the truth.

Cheers

Alex

Hi Fergus I have posted my good and average/poor flight reports on skytrax and they are word for word as I wrote them.

In my eyes it would have been better not to have posted your request, as to me it says self denial and hardly humble of VS to not accept criticism where its due.(Or maybe its not as far as VS are concerned)

You should be saying to yourselves that yes we can do better instead, you would rather jump on the conspiracy theories that all those pax want to muddy your reputation and that skytrax are manipulating the truth.

Cheers

Alex

y)

How do you decide who gets the on-board survey? I've seen them being handed out but pretty randomly. I've never been handed one in over a year of fairly regular flight with VS now.

There is a list with the X-Planes saying which seats on which aircraft registration to give them out to.

The fact that you can't use paragraphs on Skytrax makes anything you post look like a rant !

Also the reports are not in any sort of searchable order so you can't find a particular route / class it is all just mixed in together.

[mcmbenjamin]

How do you decide who gets the on-board survey? I've seen them being handed out but pretty randomly. I've never been handed one in over a year of fairly regular flight with VS now.

There is a list with the X-Planes saying which seats on which aircraft registration to give them out to.

Ahh - so it is random if my understanding is correct. So (solely for example) when aircraft G-ABCD operates a flight seat 2C, 17F and 56B get the survey. It does not matter who is in the seat. The survey goes to the same seat irregardless of the route or passenger occupying the seat. Correct?

If service was measured in terms of getting through to the call centre and response times to emails then I could understand the downgrade.

A particularly big issue for me personally is waiting 20-30 minutes (sometimes much more) to ask a question is unacceptable.

The same as waiting 2-3 weeks for an email response to a general question (not complaint).

The Facebook team are good and I have spoken to some excellent people on the phone, but only once I finally get through (if I decide I can wait!)

I only ever seem to get an XPlane questionnaire when I have had a godo flight and not when it has been bad. My last flight to Havana, I travelled in Upper and was asked to complete a questionnaire that I think was destined for the A330 fleet as classes of travel were only Economy / Premium Economy (unless they don't want feedback from LGW Upper Class passengers).

I agree that the contact with/from VS can be very slow - even when you send an e-mail commenting on staff who have been exceptional, it still takes a long time to get any acknowledgement.

And as for the LGW fleet - it is disappointing when you travel from there and more from the fact you don't have "proper" entertainment.....although you can get lumbered with one of those lovely A34-300 withou vPort when you travel from LHR. Once that is sorted, then my flight would be hugely better!

I think it is understandable that the leisure travellers out of LGW/MAN are disappointed if they have booked through VH. In every VH brochure for years the images and descriptions have been of the VA 'product' that is not available on most routes sold through the brochure.

Many leisure travellers have saved for a long time for that flight/holiday so when they are being sold a premium product and then don't get it delivered they are not going to be happy. The new Airbus' and the refurb will make a difference but how many leisure passengers are VA/VH losing to the likes of Thomson as the charter airlines have upped their game while VA have stood still?

I think that if I was Virgin I would be more worried about the 4 out of 10 from customer reviews: http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/vir_atl.htm

Hi Fergus I have posted my good and average/poor flight reports on skytrax and they are word for word as I wrote them.

In my eyes it would have been better not to have posted your request, as to me it says self denial and hardly humble of VS to not accept criticism where its due.(Or maybe its not as far as VS are concerned)

You should be saying to yourselves that yes we can do better instead, you would rather jump on the conspiracy theories that all those pax want to muddy your reputation and that skytrax are manipulating the truth.

Cheers

Alex

Amen.

[Darren Wheeler]

When you actually read the 'review' I have to wonder it they are being accurate or just grinding an axe.

Some of the paraphrased comments include

"Crew took 3 hour lunch break"
"have to pay for extra legroom seats"
"Cabin crew too busy to help you"
"door seal let in cold air" ?|
"films available were rubbish"
"Booked seats had been released"
"had to walk to get a drink"
"meal options was pork or vegetarian. I don't eat pork and not vegetarian"
"Guy sat next to me was huge - spilled over (you get the picture)"
"asked for breakfast 30 minutes before landing. It was refused"
Etc.
Etc.

The one complaining about the unaccompanied 'child' is a classic.

Many end with "will never fly VS again..." Until next time that is as BA are far more expensive :w

Skytrak is like the Tripadvisor for hotels. Reading monst of the reviews, you would never stay in any hotel.