frustrating PE seat selection process

Travelling MAN/MCO 14/11 -06/12 in PE (747 both ways) and have carefully monitored "Manage Your Flights" for both flights around the 90 day prior date for seat selection. My conclusion is that this system is frustrating, time consuming and not particularly fair on those of us who book flights many months in advance. It was a lot easier when seats could be assigned at the time of booking (even if occasionally a change of plane rendered the choice pointless).
Outbound went reasonably well and got 2 seats by the window downstairs - even though the seat map was visible but not active for a full 24 hours!
Inbound is so far proving more difficult. When the seat map opened only 7 out of a possible 21 pairs of window seating was made available. Effectively two-thirds of the entire window seating in PE is not available for passengers to select from. Whilst I managed to get 2 of those seats I would have liked to have the choice of being in the bubble on the eastbound overnight flight. Within 24 hours all the prebookable windows had gone. The entire upper deck was greyed out as well as the usual first and last rows downstairs.
I understand that some of the upper deck is held back for VS holidays passengers (which I feel discriminates against other full fare paying guests) but why take the entire deck off the seat choice? I will keep monitoring the flight to see what opens up but why not have a more open policy that is fair to everyone?
As a travel agent my company used to process seat requests for passengers booked on VS. With the varying time window and lack of seat selection the process has become so time consuming and we were getting blamed when particular seating was simply not available so now we advise customers to process their own seat selections 90 days prior.
It is a situation that could be much improved!

I agree with you 100%. We have been Virgin customers since the airline started and we book (and pay!!) for our flights 11 months in advance, due to work commitments. Virgin are happy to take our money at this time, but we are thrown into the 90 day lottery with everyone else. Surely you should be able to choose your seat when you book like theatres and sports grounds?
We are travelling around the world business class next year and this seating policy has persuaded us to book with United, Cathay Pacific and Singapore - all seats already requested! Unfortunately the loss of a significant fare for Virgin!

This gets debated on a regular basis.

VS did used to allow seat requests at the time of booking but changed it to 90 days before the flight as past of an upgrade to the reservation system (but thats been a long time coming though ...).

But I think this is a lot fairer than the BA system where being able to select a seat depends on the type of ticket you buy (so a more expensive fare bucket or your status in BAEC or if you are prepared to cough up cash - £60 for a seat in CW comes to mind.

Of course we could always just go back to how seats used to be allocated - at arrival at the airport or the LCC general policy - 1st on gets 1st choice !

Janeclar's decision to book with alternative airlines should be concern to va.. particularly as it is company policy rather than the product which has cost them business. Personally i wouldn't mind the 90 day lottery if all the seats, rather than such a small percentage, were put in the draw.

I found on my recent lgw-mco flight that most of the PE bubble seats were released a few hours before olci opened having been greyed out since the 90 day mark.

It does require obsessive watching of mmb but sometimes you can get the better seats.

[honey lamb]

Janeclar's decision to book with alternative airlines should be concern to va.. particularly as it is company policy rather than the product which has cost them business. Personally i wouldn't mind the 90 day lottery if all the seats, rather than such a small percentage, were put in the draw.

All the seats cannot be put into the draw as FAA regulations say that a proportion must be held back for allocation at the airport. In addition only 60% are available for pre-requesting with others being released at OLCI.

Regulations also state that families should be seated together as far as possible so that on some routes, especially routes like MCO, airlines, including VS restrict pre-selecting to enable this to happen

Thanks honey lamb for the explanation.. wouldnt you think that va would hold back the seat blocks of 4 to protect families.. in this instance all bar one row of 4 in PE was available for advance allocation whereas two thirds of the double seats were not.. including the entire upper deck.. complying with regulations is one thing.. lack of common sense is another. VA need to sort this particularly as the most families on this route are in EC leaving the main demand in PE for couples who dont want to pay a premium to be sat in a row of seats..

When requesting seats for Vegas, I was the first to do so for my flight (quickly followed by a fair few others).

The first two rows of both the upper and lower deck were greyed out from what I remember, additionally the whole left hand side of the upper deck PE was reserved for Virgin Holidays. This left 6 seats in the bubble to reserve which I think is the same for all LGW flights.

I don't see any problem with holding back some seats for Virgin Holidays. You seem quite angry at Virgin Atlantic for various things that are basic business concepts that are replicated in many industries. Hotels reserve spaces for their best customers, banks give extra benefits to those on high incomes, etc etc.

It sounds like you may have been too late to log on.

[honey lamb]

ISTBC but I think the PE section in the bubble reserved for VH travellers is dependent on their also booking 4* accommodation with them. As not everyone meets this criteria then often the whole section may be released at OLCI.

The reason for the first rows of both the upper deck and the main deck (and specifically the main deck) in PE is that these have to be reserved for people with disabilities. In the past they were regarded as bassinet seats but even these have been given way to disabilities. They can only be allocated at the airport if it has been established that no-one meeting the criteria needs them

ISTBC but I think the PE section in the bubble reserved for VH travellers is dependent on their also booking 4* accommodation with them. As not everyone meets this criteria then often the whole section may be released at OLCI

Yes this is still the case, and it's only a request. Not too sure exactly how it works apart from a note being placed on your booking. I had this offered to me on my flight to Vegas, I assume they are assigned a few days before the flight, but as I had already bagged upper deck seats perhaps they left us in them.

In response to Nlkollc your response does not add up. Unlike banks and hotels VA fails miserably in looking after its regular customers in this particular area of service. As a member of their frequent flyer programme for obver 10 years, albeit humble silver, why should a one-off passenger with the airlinet get priority over me just because they booked through a subsiduary company of the airline? I do however agree with you that they should offer priority to their more valuable customers. The problem being they do not appear to recognise who those customers are unlike a number of other carriers. The system is flawed and needs fixing. I see the frustration all the time of customers i have recommended PE to who, having paid a hefty supplement, are denied access to seating of their preference at T-90. It is a shame because PE is a wonderful product and VA a superb airline. Yes, I am a fan!

The new 90 day rule has had a knock on effect in another way. Being a wheelchair user since 1991, for me it was always convenient to be able to contact the special needs department to book specific seats to meet ones need the very day I have booked the flight. I have no issues providing medical information/ doctor's letter to support that request and in the past have truly appreciated being able to do this.

With the new system one has to wait till the airport check in to confirm where we will sit, meaning we have to at the airport first thing, in the mean time we have booked three seats as a safe guard which hopefully if all goes well we wont use...but in doing this sudo booking we are denying others choice. We are off to the USA shortly, with VA in PE and even if I get allocated an appropriate seat that meets my needs.... with my wife along side as carer I cant guarantee that my daughter will be next to us due to the late seat booking as on line does not allow for special needs requests

The system is flawed and it can be improved IMHO

Cloudscudder

I concur that Seat Selection with Virgin is very poor, needs a complete overhaul, is a lottery and often relies on "who you know that works for VS with the required access to their IT systems".

Yesterday I booked a return flight with BA for June and July 2014. I was able to book a specific emergency row seat (12A and 12F) for a small amount of money.

If BA can do this, why cant VS especially when you read that they have recently redesigned their IT Systems in this respect.

Equally Frustrated VS customer.

When oh when will Virgin realise that Seat Selection is very important to their customers? Customers will reasonably pay for this facility as it will stop them wasting so much time around the 90 day point and even then its not guaranteed as I found out!

?|

This gets debated on a regular basis.

VS did used to allow seat requests at the time of booking but changed it to 90 days before the flight as past of an upgrade to the reservation system (but thats been a long time coming though ...).

But I think this is a lot fairer than the BA system where being able to select a seat depends on the type of ticket you buy (so a more expensive fare bucket or your status in BAEC or if you are prepared to cough up cash - £60 for a seat in CW comes to mind.

Of course we could always just go back to how seats used to be allocated - at arrival at the airport or the LCC general policy - 1st on gets 1st choice !

Tony I know your not a moderator but this post highlights what I said last week about diverting the problem away from VS by attacking BA. The 90 day seat selection process is totally unfair to the early bookers( whose money provides vital cash flow) and with regard to BA I am fortunate to have status and free seat selection, but prior to this when I booked with BA the flights were significantly cheaper VS so the £80 for the UD was still over £500 cheaper than VS. As for the loss of income, I personally used to spend I've £30k per year of my on money flying VS but I'm afraid ths year it's gone to BA/AA

Seat selection whether paid or not is in my humble option a high priority in the booking decision. Also with BA the ability to select free is based on status not the ticket code.

Tony I know your not a moderator but this post highlights what I said last week about diverting the problem away from VS by attacking BA. The 90 day seat selection process is totally unfair to the early bookers( whose money provides vital cash flow) and with regard to BA I am fortunate to have status and free seat selection, but prior to this when I booked with BA the flights were significantly cheaper VS so the £80 for the UD was still over £500 cheaper than VS. As for the loss of income, I personally used to spend I've £30k per year of my on money flying VS but I'm afraid ths year it's gone to BA/AA

Seat selection whether paid or not is in my humble option a high priority in the booking decision. Also with BA the ability to select free is based on status not the ticket code.

How am I attacking BA or diverting away from VS? I simply stated what BA do re seat allocation - compare and contrast and all that which people do all the time on here.

Indeed I used the words 'But I think this [the VS system] is a lot fairer than the BA system ...' i.e my opinion. Other people - like you - have different views - are those that don't like the VS system 'attacking VS' or boosting BA? I don't think they are but simply stating their opinion. You said the VS system was 'totally unfair' is that not an attack on VS and boosting BA? You are doing what you accuse me of doing but in reverse !

To me early seat selection is not an issue but I appreciate that for others it is.

But on BA free seat selection IS dependent on fare bucket - BA clearly states you need a 'flexible ticket' to get that.
from 'choosing your seat'

Customers with fully flexible tickets

When you choose a flexible ticket, you can change your flights at short notice with no penalty fees.

You can also choose your seat for free as soon as you've booked.

They even show a screen shot. Now why would they do that if free seat selection wasn't ticket type dependent?

And I know from personal experience because last year I booked a CW ticket on BA and had to wait until OLCI opened as I had no status at all in BAEC and my ticket was a 'cheapest' not a 'flexible' one. And when I tried to select in manage my booking it stated I had to wait until OLCI.

If i can select my seat on booking my flight, and had to pay to do so i would, other airlines do, it would be my choice. If i was not botherd where i sat i would wait untill check in at 24hrs, but i could choose. This is what these people are saying. Our choice.

We have been going 1,2 or 3 times a year to MCO with VS since 2001. I never got to silver, but did accrue a lot of miles which I used last year for 2 PE seats which I was able to request when I booked via Flying Club. Seat request is very important to us for lots of reasons and VS suited our requirements. We usually only book 1-2 months prior to our flights but have never failed to be successful in requesting the seats which suit us by being extremely flexible on our dates. So this year, we are going to give BA a whirl to see if they will provide the seats which we have booked and paid for to book as we have no status with BA at all. Admittedly, we booked earlier than usual this year but this was entirely down to cost of comparable flights of VS vs BA. In fact we are flying CW plus a 4 week car hire for not much more that VS wanted for VS PE seats at the time of booking. I will reserve judgement on whether I will use VS or BA in future until I have experienced the flights both ways. I have read conflicting reports on how good BA's service is but I will wait & see. I have always had excellent service from crews on the MAN/MCO flights so I have no complaints at all about VS apart from the 90 day seat request introduction. Just my thoughts.

Katie

I respect everyone's right to have a opinion, I just feel aggrieved that when OP makes a genuine complaint that BA is the counter argument and in this case I feel felt the comparison was wrong for the following reasons

Free seat selection is part of the reward system with BA and rewards silver and gold card holders for their loyalty and expenditure. If however you are not bothered about where you sit it is still free at T24. If however seat selection is important to you seats can be reserved at a cost at the time of booking. You can't do this with VS.

Finally it has been my experience and that of many other posters that even after paying for the seats BA is considerably cheaper.

My experience, with short haul flights into Europe has been different. I have on several occasions paid to book a specific seat, then checked in online and printed boarding pass, only to have my seat changed, which I had paid for, when I arrived at the airport for bag drop!! When I challenged this, I was told that loads were light for the flight and they have to ensure even distribution of weight throughout the cabin (I don't know how true that is), but I have never managed to get the airline to back down - they have reissued my boarding card with a new seat allocation and I've been left a few quid out of pocket with little chance of getting it back. Seat preference is reasonably important to me, but in the end I gave up paying for seat selections when I knew that even then they're not guaranteed.

if I get chance to select my seat in advance, great, and if it's changed when I check-in, then tough, I just have to go with the flow, because it's futile trying to argue your point, especially as the people you end up arguing with are not the decision makers.

There, that's my two pennorth! lol

Bretty

If you paid with BA I believe you should be entitled to a refund. If it was a low cost operator I'm not sure

To me seat selection is very important. In June we flew BA BC to Las Vegas and although it was expensive it was worth it to select the seats I wanted at the time of booking (11 months previous)as you can with many low cost airlines at a cost. We often fly Emirates and as long as you have booked direct with them you can select your seats for free at the time of booking In December we're flying PE to St Lucia and have found it a real hassle having to stalk the site until I could select seats Could someone just clarify 'If you book a Virgin Holiday (subject to hotel choice)are you allocated PE seats at the time of booking' Thanks

Bretty,

If you pre-book seats with BA and don't get them for something like a change of aircraft type, you can apply for a refund BUT only within 14 days of the event.

Be warned.

The current situation is one thing - and if new to VS, you'd just need to accept the status quo - those are the Ts&Cs.

As a long-standing and expired customer of VS, I used to travel PE a great deal, and valued the bubble above all. With the change in aircraft type, reduction in number of PE seats on upper deck of LGW/MAN 747s, and the 90 day rule...well, this all meant that the likelihood of being fairly certain of PE seats in the bubble reduced.

I now fly BA and have achieved AG - this means I get to make my seat selection as soon as I book - for free.

BA operates a different set of rules, - that's all. The fact that I get to select seats without paying is a perk I have attained by showing loyalty to BA - that seems a pretty good business strategy to me.

Conclusion? The 90 day rule was a contributory factor in me switching my preferred airline group.

We seem to be allocated 747 flights to Orlando from October onwards, Why dont VA let us choose seats for a limited time, and see the reaction from the customers view. This would be good publicity for them, and a user reaction from us, Say 6 months. Unless they are going to spring a Dreamliner on us and have yet to tell us. All MAN/LGW/GLA aircraft are the same configeration.

Bretty

Just to put your mind at rest if your booked from LHR BA normally use a low J config so any change would be to high J so you would be likely to receive an OP upgrade. From LGW the normal config is 24W so any aircraft change would have at least same amount of seats or greater.