Virgin losing its soul :-(

I've been flying Virgin Atlantic for over two decades - I even flew on Maiden Voyager... but I think Virgin is losing its soul. Its marketing/personality seems to be disappearing - they're adding fee after fee (booking rewards flights is just ridiculous now...). With the Delta partnership - my biggest question is - when will Delta acquire 2% more, to get full control?

I love this airline - and have paid more so many times just to fly with it. However, I'm not sure how much longer I can justify this. Norwegian Air looks like it will disrupt the market (in a good way) - and I just hope that Virgin can re-invigorate itself.

I agree that VS has gone downhill in recent years.

I suspect that it will start to pick up soon though, just look at BA, a few years ago it had an ageing fleet, terrible PR, unhappy crew (all the strikes!) and crew known to be borderline rude. But now, it has an incredibly young fleet, quickly expanding & getting younger, it runs great PR and Ad campaigns, Crew aren't striking and are now known to be much friendlier with a great sense of pride. They have also introduced/kept unique service details (Club kitchen for example). More importantly though, they are making a profit!

I sincerely hope so. I haven't flown with BA since their dirty tricks campaign - and I really hope Virgin gets its act together. The seat selection fees for economy passengers is really a stupid move - and will alienate cost-conscious families.

I know this board tends to be more PE/UC oriented, but it's the mass market that makes/breaks a business - and the wealthiest flyers cannot single-handedly revive virgin.

[Darren Wheeler]

It's the premium passengers in both Upper and PE that allow the cost-concious families fly for the price they pay, and that applies for the non-low cost market worldwide.

Off to HKG with Virgin Monday and was tempted to go BA fo a 380 flight. Used to be loyal for air miles with virgin but so much tougher than BA to redeem I am seriously considering swapping over to BA.

At the moment the only thing holding me into Virgin is LHR Clubhouse !

With the Delta partnership - my biggest question is - when will Delta acquire 2% more, to get full control?

Don't think they can....

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1621614740

I know this board tends to be more PE/UC oriented, but it's the mass market that makes/breaks a business - and the wealthiest flyers cannot single-handedly revive virgin.

Interesting how there are many different lenses on the same issue. Not 6 months ago there was a vigorous discussion on whether economy business was being favoured over the premium business.

It's the premium passengers in both Upper and PE that allow the cost-concious families fly for the price they pay, and that applies for the non-low cost market worldwide.

To an extent - but that WAY oversimplifies the analysis. If economy were empty, the plane wouldn't be economical to fly - so there wouldn't be any Upper Class. The reverse is also true - they are symbiotic. However, when economy tickets are approaching $2000 roundtrip (for the 'cheap' fares), I'd make an argument that the traditional value proposition just isn't as true anymore.

I think an awful lot depends on what cabin you fly. I've flown in all three over the past few weeks and I thought that economy was surprisingly poor -- considerably worse than some alternatives (I have some trip reports brewing to justify this...). PE has been pared back but is still good. UC is good too, but there is no doubt that the cutbacks mean that you really rely on a good crew and the ground (i.e. mainly lounge) experience -- if they go wrong, then you are wasting your money.

The saddest thing of all is when you take a flight on another airline and you think, wow, this is so much better than VS. Sadly, that happened to me twice in the past week, and even more sadly (and almost incomprehensibly) one of those flights was on UNITED!

I've only flown United domestically in the United States several times (from NYC to San Francisco), and they were all horrible experiences. It's very sad if United is 'beating' Virgin

I'm one of those 'frugal flyers' who only flies Economy - I can afford 'better' cabins, but just can't justify it financially (I'm cheap). Economy on Virgin has always been 'ok' - but I totally agree - it depends on the cabin crew. I think it also depends on which route you fly. I'm always coming out of JFK, and I *think* that most airlines put their best foot forward on the JFK/LHR route.

Atlantic should look more at America. They are doing all v-atlantic should be doing.

Off to HKG with Virgin Monday and was tempted to go BA fo a 380 flight. Used to be loyal for air miles with virgin but so much tougher than BA to redeem I am seriously considering swapping over to BA.

At the moment the only thing holding me into Virgin is LHR Clubhouse !

You and me both. The quality of the CHs, plus their more flexible policy of allowing extra family members in for a fee is about the only thing stopping me from a wholesale switch to BA. I'd rather not have to do it because I too remember the good old days...

I was quite disappointed to get a call the other day, to tell me that Virgin had made a mistake when switching my flights, and actually I owed Virgin £11 (£5.50 each) for the difference in ticket price they had neglected to charge me first time round we I paid the fee £100 each and they even took the time to check that no other fees were payable.

The idea that they did not just waive that fee and called me up to hold my flight to ransom for this I could not believe!

I think an awful lot depends on what cabin you fly. I've flown in all three over the past few weeks and I thought that economy was surprisingly poor -- considerably worse than some alternatives (I have some trip reports brewing to justify this...). PE has been pared back but is still good. UC is good too, but there is no doubt that the cutbacks mean that you really rely on a good crew and the ground (i.e. mainly lounge) experience -- if they go wrong, then you are wasting your money.

The saddest thing of all is when you take a flight on another airline and you think, wow, this is so much better than VS. Sadly, that happened to me twice in the past week, and even more sadly (and almost incomprehensibly) one of those flights was on UNITED!

I agree with this. We used United to fly to New York for our honeymoon, largely because Virgin don't fly directly from Manchester. I was very pleased with both flights, great service, a normal food portion size, and economy plus seating had excellent legroom.

I agree with this. We used United to fly to New York for our honeymoon, largely because Virgin don't fly directly from Manchester. I was very pleased with both flights, great service, a normal food portion size, and economy plus seating had excellent legroom.

Good to hear (well, from one perspective!).

<shameless plug> This thread spurred me on to write up my recent United flight: forum/index.php?f=6&t=285268&rb_v=viewtopic

I'm happy people are expressing valid feedback in this thread - I was worried it would elicit 'troll-like' posts. I really hope Virgin reads these forums - it's obvious we care about the airline, and want it to thrive.

Interesting read this - I've been a regular BA flier for many years, and recently had to use VS to JFK and back (was able to fly UC as I had some Amex points I could transfer over) and found it a revelation. Food was much better, crews were great, the wine was better than anything I'd had in Club on BA (other than the Club World London City service), and I really liked the seat (on an A346).

In fact, I liked them so much, Mrs Lem and I are flying with them to Grenada later this year (although that's on the A333, and this forum has given me the fear about that now).

So if that was Virgin at a low, I can only imagine what they were like at a high!

So if that was Virgin at a low, I can only imagine what they were like at a high!

Past my time of flying it, but there were onboard massages in UC, apparently.

Crew can definitely make a huge difference to your flight experience. On my recent HAV flights the outbound and inbound crew in UC were like chalk and cheese comparatively. Inbound not very friendly, no smiles, forgot to bring a requested bottle of water and not that it's important but no recognition for being FC Gold

I agree with this. We used United to fly to New York for our honeymoon, largely because Virgin don't fly directly from Manchester. I was very pleased with both flights, great service, a normal food portion size, and economy plus seating had excellent legroom.

Good to hear (well, from one perspective!).

<shameless plug> This thread spurred me on to write up my recent United flight: forum/index.php?f=6&t=285268&rb_v=viewtopic

I'm a little inspired to do my own now, great TR!

I was quite disappointed to get a call the other day, to tell me that Virgin had made a mistake when switching my flights, and actually I owed Virgin £11 (£5.50 each) for the difference in ticket price they had neglected to charge me first time round we I paid the fee £100 each and they even took the time to check that no other fees were payable.

The idea that they did not just waive that fee and called me up to hold my flight to ransom for this I could not believe!

I think that's a bit bad that they called you for that.
If it's their mistake it's their mistake. Little things mean a lot. I would have been annoyed too.

I think they have lost a little spark but I also think has a lot to do with them not making enough money.
I would be extra disappointed if once they are back in the black they don't also return to flying in the face of the ordinary etc
And bring decent amenity kits in UC lol

I've only flown United domestically in the United States several times (from NYC to San Francisco), and they were all horrible experiences. It's very sad if United is 'beating' Virgin

I'm one of those 'frugal flyers' who only flies Economy - I can afford 'better' cabins, but just can't justify it financially (I'm cheap). Economy on Virgin has always been 'ok' - but I totally agree - it depends on the cabin crew. I think it also depends on which route you fly. I'm always coming out of JFK, and I *think* that most airlines put their best foot forward on the JFK/LHR route.

EXACTLY the same - only ever fly Economy - FRUGAL flyer gets my vote. Mainly BOS or JFK. I am tempted to look at alternatives right now as FC miles are pretty useless due to crazy surcharges - maybe Delta due to tie up?? Lots of research due here I think.

Recently have been given a complimentary Gold status by BA - unsolicited (have not flown them in YEARS but was gold when i did fly) and United have offered similar (I asked them for status match if I moved).

Interesting a good friend of mine flew United the other week on a new Dreamliner and said it was stunning.

Love the Cabin crew in VA though - always seem nice but have not flown international with anyone else apart from Air Canada for a while - maybe worth having a look though..... decisions, decisions...

I am maybe in the minority here, but I actually think that VS are getting better than they were a few years ago.

Sure, if you go back 10 years, we had nice amenity kits, red pillows and flowers on the bar in Upper but times have changed and the world is just coming out of a recession.

Companies had to adapt and change to survive - maybe some cut too much or didn't / couldn't make important decisions quick enough and have been slower to recover (retirement of A340-600's, refits to 747's etc) but I think things are on the up.

The refits of the 747's have went down very well in all classes - the IFE is leaps and bounds over what is was (if you remember its "touch" screen and not thump screen), the bigger premium cabin has went down a storm and most seem to be happier now the debacle with the seat assignment has kinda sorted itself out.

Seating assignment doesn't bother me at all, but it is very high on some peoples priority. Paying for it on a "full service" airline is probably wrong and the excuse that BA has been doing it for years really shouldn't wash, but you have a choice. Pay or don't pay. I would be astonished if they repeatedly split families up and weren't able to get them seated together at check-in.

The lessons of the new "dream" suite seem to have been learned and I believe it has died a quiet death before the Dreamliner appears and the worn out A340-300's and some of the older 600's have already left the fleet.

The last few flights I have taken, admittedly in Upper, have been some of the best flights ever with VS over the last 20 odd years of flying with them.

The food has dramatically improved and the crew, almost without exception have been brilliant.

Little Red seems to be starting to work and its nice to have a seamless journey when connecting through Heathrow rather than having to take BA. It would be even better if they started to fly out of Gatwick.

Their soul, in my opinion has a huge percentage made up by its people and as I have said before, most of the crew on my last flights have been brilliant.

Hopefully, their new boss realises this, allows them to prosper and then starts reversing some of the cuts that have been made 5 - 10 years ago.

In my opinion, its not all doom and gloom, yes it has been better in the past, but VS are still my carrier of choice.

David

In another thread recently I gave my initial thoughts on Virgin after two flights with them recently.

Overall I was very happy with the service. Certain things stand out (the Clubhouse, the friendly, relaxed and informal but polite staff). Certain things do need some attention and the website is certainly tops in priority.

Every time I use it I get irritated. It is erratic, poorly designed and is a mish-mash of different styles. I can not help thinking it will deter some potential customers from booking flights. Compared to the BA site it is appalling.

Sorry to harp on about it, but it vexes me!

But none the less I am very excited about booking our VS UC flights to Tokyo for next Spring. ^)

I cannot comment on " losing its soul" as I didn't fly Virgin in its heyday when its advertising and its delivery apparently matched.

I guess the management have to decide where they want to position the airline, what markets they want and how to survive within them. But they are nothing more than a niche airline now with a decreasing fan base. And they cannot compete on a world stage now, they don't have the resources.

The future is Middle Eastern. I have just flown out of Abu Dhabi and the airport development is incredible, many new buildings in various stages of construction. Etihad, as Emirates, is clearly going to be a world player.

And that I can post this on here from 35000 feet nearing Singapore using on board wifi, having just had a wonderful restaurant quality meal with fabulous wines, at a price below what a routing to Australia on VS would have cost really does say it all.

And with great respect to David above I have noticed that many of the died in the wool old VS fans who used to frequent this site are now using other carriers, not everyone thinks the clubhouse is adequate compensation for other inadequacies. And rightly so because it isn't.

And I still think the FSM and cabin crew on the VS200 to Hong Kong at Christmas were a disgrace. They should be sitting here on this Etihad flight right now and see proper customer service done with a smile. It really is special. Anyway, it is now time for pudding. And a glass of Tokaji.