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#923770 by slinky09
11 Jul 2016, 10:08
It appears that Airbus flew the A350 test plane from Farnborough to Gatwick to pick up SRB this morning, to fly back to Farnborough. Can only mean a VS order methinks, and presumably final confirmation of no A380s. I wonder how many and whether all to replace the 747s or some for Heathrow too.
#923771 by SlimpyJones
11 Jul 2016, 10:10
Yep, I'd agree with that! Reports seem to say varying things as to how many, such as "Up to 12", "At least 10", with one report being a bit more specific, saying a firm order of eight with four as options (I didn't note which ones though, sorry)
#923774 by Darren Wheeler
11 Jul 2016, 10:21
I think it will be at least 2019 before they enter service. The test aircraft hasn't even flown yet and 2017 is list as the year it will enter service with Qatar.

At least those A380 deposits will go to use at last...
#923777 by mitchja
11 Jul 2016, 11:13
Email just received from VS Trade about this:

Virgin Atlantic invests in the future with order for A350-1000 aircraft
Airline unveils $4.4 billion order for 12 A350-1000 aircraft
The aircraft will be powered with Rolls Royce Trent XWB engines
Forecasts suggest the aircraft will generate 30% lower CO2 emissions
Virgin Atlantic and Airbus announce agreement on a firm order, valued at $4.4bn, for 12 Airbus A350-1000 aircraft.

The investment demonstrates the strength of the Virgin Atlantic commitment to customer experience as it continues to focus on delivering sustained profit in the long term. It is part of a fleet modernisation program which will see 50 percent of Virgin Atlantic’s aircraft replaced in a six year period – creating one of the world’s youngest fleets.

Of the 12 firm orders, eight will be purchased and four leased, as Virgin Atlantic continues its investment into increasing the mix of owned and leased aircraft in its fleet.

The aircraft, powered by Rolls Royce Trent XWB engines, continues Virgin Atlantic’s investment in a greener, cleaner, quieter fleet. The aircraft is designed to be 30% more fuel and carbon efficient than the aircraft it replaces in the fleet and is expected to reduce the airline’s noise footprint at its airports by more than half.

Virgin Atlantic CEO Craig Kreeger, commented:

“The size of this order demonstrates our absolute focus on investing in the future for our customers and our people, and confirms the strength of our business.”

“The A350-1000 plays a pivotal role in our fleet programme, helping to create one of the youngest, cleanest, greenest fleets in the sky.”

“We’re looking forward to introducing this aircraft to our customers, as its impressive economics, fuel performance, and quiet flying offer an irresistible proposition that makes long haul travel more enjoyable and better for the environment."

The A350-1000, which will replace Virgin Atlantic’s remaining Boeing 747-400s and Airbus A340-600s, is due for delivery from early 2019. The aircraft offers outstanding levels of comfort and reliability, and the Virgin Atlantic model will be designed with its customers’ needs in mind. The airline is currently undertaking in depth research, including its customers in the process, to ensure it delivers the industry-leading experience for which it is known.

The aircraft will operate on both business and leisure routes for Virgin Atlantic worldwide with a base at both London Heathrow and London Gatwick. Initially the aircraft will fly to key US destinations from London Heathrow.

The aircraft will be delivered to Virgin Atlantic in two configurations – one for the business fleet seating up to 360 customers and one for the leisure fleet seating up to 410 customers.

Virgin Atlantic President Sir Richard Branson said:

“We’re thrilled to welcome the A350 to Virgin Atlantic. It is an outstanding aircraft from both a customer and sustainability point of view. Sustainable growth and meeting our carbon targets is incredibly important to us, and the aircraft’s environmental credentials were a genuine factor in our selection.

“We will be pairing its cutting edge customer proposition with our own Virgin magic to give customers the best possible experience.”

Fabrice Brégier, Airbus President and Chief Executive Officer said:

“This agreement allows Virgin Atlantic to set the standard on its network by being amongst the first airlines into service with the A350-1000, with an Airspace by Airbus cabin, offering superior comfort including industry leading 18" wide seats in‎ economy. These modern, efficient A350s will complement Virgin Atlantic’s existing fleet of 10 A330-300s and offer Virgin Atlantic crews the advantage of familiarity with Airbus operating procedures around the network”
#923789 by Fuzzy14
11 Jul 2016, 13:30
Something not adding up here. 12 new aircraft to replace 8 747s but some of the A350s will be non leisure config thus ex-LHR to replace the 8 A340-6, they're a few aircraft short.

Either some of the A340-6 will be replaced earlier than 2019 by the 787-9 or Gatwick fleet will get some A330s or 787-9s moved across.
#923793 by Hamster
11 Jul 2016, 13:59
gumshoe wrote:Craig Kreeger saying they still have options for six A380s and are still keeping them under consideration for the future.

Yes, Virgin changed their orders for the 6 A380's into A350 orders, now they have 'rights' to 6 A380 - Likely at no additional cost so Airbus can try and save some face on its A380 programme.
('Rights' can be dropped at any time with no penalty)
#923794 by clarkeysntfc
11 Jul 2016, 14:17
Currently VS have 8 A346's and 8 LGW config B747's.

I believe that 4 787-9's are yet to be delivered + 12 A350-1000's adds up to the 16 aircraft which will leave the fleet.

However this is a further cut in capacity in respect of seat count.
#923795 by Fuzzy14
11 Jul 2016, 14:24
clarkeysntfc wrote:Currently VS have 8 A346's and 8 LGW config B747's.

I believe that 4 787-9's are yet to be delivered + 12 A350-1000's adds up to the 16 aircraft which will leave the fleet.

However this is a further cut in capacity in respect of seat count.


That's what I'm getting at. Currently the fleet size is 39 consisting of
8 747
8 A340-6
10 A330
13 787-9 (three more 787-9 to be delivered)

By 2020 the fleet size will be
12 A350
10 A330
16 787-9
Total: 38
Less planes and less seats.
#923797 by Joshl257
11 Jul 2016, 15:05
Good news all round I might be wrong but I think Virgin has 4 options on the Dreamliner that they do plan to take that would make a fleet of 21 787 -9. With regard to A350 think it's going to be a fantastic aircraft and for the LGW/MAN fleet.
Big emphasis on Virgin wanting to own more aircraft now rather than leaseing them.
#923798 by SlimpyJones
11 Jul 2016, 15:48
I'm finding a lot of different answers when it comes to how many 789s were on order. Wikipedia page for 789 orders says a total of 17, VS wiki page says 17 plus 5 options. Confusing!
#923799 by mitchja
11 Jul 2016, 15:56
SlimpyJones wrote:I'm finding a lot of different answers when it comes to how many 789s were on order. Wikipedia page for 789 orders says a total of 17, VS wiki page says 17 plus 5 options. Confusing!


Boeing's own order / delivery page states:

17 orders
13 deliveries
4 unfilled

You need to drill that page down to see just VS info.
#923809 by Hamster
11 Jul 2016, 18:40
cheesebag wrote:Talk of Boeing making a stretched version of the 777-3 .... an idea but maybe too late for replacing the 744's


The 777-9 (will be the largest twin engine aircraft) is already longer than the 777-300, estimated in service date of 2020.

And Boeing are looking into a 777-10, even longer version.

Likely that BA will buy some of these to go with its current 777 fleet
#923860 by clarkeysntfc
12 Jul 2016, 15:26
mitchja wrote:
SlimpyJones wrote:I'm finding a lot of different answers when it comes to how many 789s were on order. Wikipedia page for 789 orders says a total of 17, VS wiki page says 17 plus 5 options. Confusing!


Boeing's own order / delivery page states:

17 orders
13 deliveries
4 unfilled

You need to drill that page down to see just VS info.



Indeed - so this means that the fleet will be the same size as it is now in 2020, albeit with a decline in overall seat numbers.
#923861 by getinjonathan
12 Jul 2016, 15:39
Fantastic news! I've been told those A350s allocated for LHR will serve the JFK route initially, which makes perfect sense. Very happy about that! It's been a bit disappointing so far with very few 787-9 flying the route.

Roll on 2019.
#924004 by VS075
17 Jul 2016, 10:09
I saw the announcement the other day - good news! I've always maintained the A350-1000 is a good fit for VS and its good to see that VS are planning to use the A350-1000's capacity across both LHR and leisure as I always felt moving LHR to a wholly 787/A330 base would be a big cut capacity-wise.

I'll be sad to see the 747's go, though I look forward to see an A350 in VS colours at MAN (assuming of course they deploy them there on routes such as MCO).

As for growth, I expect VS will exercise those options they have on the 787 for this, unless demand grows sufficiently to justify more A350's.
#924046 by ColOrd
18 Jul 2016, 22:23
The seat numbers mentioned for the leisure variant suggest a very similar ratio of classes as the existing LGW 747s. I would speculate they will go for 1-2-1 in UC, the XWB seems to support it looking at some of the airlines already flying it as its more comparable to a 777 (5.89m) than a 787 (5.49) at 5.96 meters across so we might see a very small cabin of maybe 16 seats at the front?

I don't believe that any Airlines have gone 10-Abreast with it, but if they can do it with a 777 why not here? I sincerely hope not!
#924068 by Hamster
19 Jul 2016, 14:57
Virgin do seem to be putting a lot of seats on board, don't know if it's going to be roughly average, but I know BA are putting in far less (mostly due to a large CW cabin and having an F cabin)
#924069 by stuart_f
19 Jul 2016, 17:46
Virgin's seat figures for the business version is quite reasonable but their leisure layout must be packing them in!

The aircraft will be delivered to Virgin Atlantic in two configurations – one for the business fleet seating up to 360 customers and one for the leisure fleet seating up to 410 customers.


Airbus' reference layout only reaches 369 seats.
Image

If you go with 1-2-1 in UC, you lose some density which will account for 360 in the business layout. I'm not sure how you get to 410, that's a lot of extra seats to fit in.

Even this proposal which eliminates the centre galley and uses slimline toilets only manages to get to 387.
Image

In other news, the first A350-1000 prototype left the factory for the paintshop today

Image
Photo credit Eurospot
#924070 by gumshoe
19 Jul 2016, 18:31
ColOrd's fears may be realised - can't see any way to get 410 on there without opting for 3-4-3 in Y.

Something along the lines of:
35 rows x 3-4-3 in Y = 350
5 rows x 2-4-2 in PE = 40
5 rows x 1-2-1 in J = 20

And on the LHR config:

26 rows of 3-4-3 in Y = 260
7 rows of 2-4-2 in W = 56
11 rows of 1-2-1 in J = 44
Virgin Atlantic

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