VS's Future at MAN

Our 109 flight in mid November is B744 , however the late November return flight is now changed to A333.

Is pre-clearance seen as a good thing?
I recently experienced it in Dublin for the first time using AA. It was an absolute zoo, far worse than I’ve seen at any US border in years. OK for me as I have GE, but the regular queues were filling the hall and they’d started to hold passengers at the initial BP check.
Given a general sense of how everything else is managed at Manchester it’s hard to imagine they wouldn’t botch pre-clearance.

At least with preclearance, even if it’s a zoo you’d be at the airport anyway so the only time you’re losing by waiting in line is eating/drinking/sitting around/lounge time.

Arguably better that than wasting an hour queueing at immigration in the US when with preclearance you can be on your way as soon as you’re off the plane.

I think it is unlikely that US preclearance will appear at MAN in the foreseeable.

My expectation is that MAN will deliver some infrastructure to support VS in particular (for example facility to enable “Virgin Connect” to move to terminal 2 and facilitate domestic flights and transfers, as well as domestic-international transfers) but how far this goes I’m not certain.

The two go hand in hand, as an expanded VS at MAN facilitated additional facilities at MAN and vice versa - so hopefully the lines of communication are open on a full and frank basis.

I've not witnessed pre clearance in Dublin, seen it via BA1 in Shannon, which is something different.

I've sailed through LAX after a VS flight. Barely half an hour. Mainly due to the timings of the flight, arriving late afternoon/early evening.

I've stood for 2.5 hours in the queue at LAX when every nationality in the world piled off planes into the immigration hall, after me arriving on a BA flight just after noon.

So there's definitely cases when it would be useful. But it does sound as if shifting the problem across the channel, when a number of flights won't suffer queues...

I think USPC would be helpful for onward transfer passengers at the US end (which might be more helpful on routes to ATL, JFK, BOS - possibly DTW in future).

Anyway - I don’t think it will happen anytime soon...

At least with preclearance, even if it’s a zoo you’d be at the airport anyway so the only time you’re losing by waiting in line is eating/drinking/sitting around/lounge time.

Arguably better that than wasting an hour queueing at immigration in the US when with preclearance you can be on your way as soon as you’re off the plane.

Still just a time shift though, no? You leave earlier to allow for the pre-clearance. So you extend your journey time at the beginning, which is offset at the end. Still can't see any overall benefit.

Why leave earlier? Most people get to the airport 2-3 hours before a TATL flight and spend at least half of that just waiting around in bars, restaurants, lounges or shops.

In my experience travelling to the US, the Immigration and Baggage collection often offset each other. If you get through Immigration quickly you spend time waiting at the baggage carousel. If Immigration takes a while (as it did at ATL on our last visit) there is much less of a wait for baggage (last time by the time we got to the baggage hall our baggage was neatly lined up on the floor).

This leads to the question if you have pre-clearance and a connecting flight presumably your luggage gets cleared through and you don't have to reclaim at the US arrival airport?

Something innovative, like the a Clubhouse on the “US side” of the “border” would be handy, as it would encourage you to go through early doors.

Of course that would not be of use to VS’s non-US flights at MAN (of which there are currently very few) and would require a duplication (or near duplication) of the clubhouse facility which would probably not be cost effective (I don’t even know if the authorities would allow that).

[mitchja]

I don’t think a lounge would be allowed would it once through pre-clearance as how would they go about staffing it as technically it would be on US soil?

Dublin has a lounge post pre-clearance, so shouldn’t be an issue.

But I can’t see MAN getting pre-clearance any time soon, so it’s really a moot point.

Whilst the redevelopment of T2 gives MAN the perfect opportunity to build in US pre-clearance facilities, it won't happen. You only have to look at how the original T2 expansion plans have been scaled down / designs changed to cut costs.

I am guessing any pre-clearance gates have to be in a dedicated area that remains completely "sterile", even when the gates are not in use as technically it's classed as US soil. No way will MAN pay for restrictive use gates like that as they would only be used for say 6hrs a day maximum.

You only have to look at how the original T2 expansion plans have been scaled down / designs changed to cut costs.

As a fairly frequent MAN flyer, I'd be interested to see how the plans evolved. Have you got any links that show the original ideas/intentions?

My last VS flight from MAN to LAS departed from the new pier 1. I was totally underwhelmed. Everything from the lack of styling in the building to the stairs down to the jetway; from the choice of seating to the uninspired toilets. The whole thing felt very cheap to me.

I don’t think a lounge would be allowed would it once through pre-clearance as how would they go about staffing it as technically it would be on US soil?

Pre clearance does not mean you are on US soil just that you have been cleared to enter the US for the purposes of immigration.

Basically you don't actually physically enter the US - and become subject to US jurisdiction - until you land on actual US soil such as JFK or MCO airport.

Punch someone at DUB after you've precleared and it's the Guarda who will arrest you and an Irish court which will try you and not a US police officer or US court.

If there were to be pre clearance at MAN then UK law would still applies just as Irish Laws apply at SNN and DUB and Canadian Law at Toronto or Vancouver.

Having lounges and shops etc in pre clearance is perfectly fine. There are shops and lounges at both SNN and DUB for example.

Having lounges and shops etc in pre clearance is perfectly fine. There are shops and lounges at both SNN and DUB for example.

Yes, but once you've pre-cleared don't you have to remain in the pre-clearance area? i.e. you cannot pre-clear then decide to go duty free shopping in the main duty free shop. So any shops / lounges have to be in the specific pre-clearance area.

yes that's correct. At SNN for example the duty free shop is between security and the CBP posts with some smaller shops and a cafe after that.

I don't know what the facilities are like in non pre clearance departures areas at SNN are like but any passenger starting there would go through normal security and be in main departures before then going on to the pre clearance area.

In my experience travelling to the US, the Immigration and Baggage collection often offset each other. If you get through Immigration quickly you spend time waiting at the baggage carousel. If Immigration takes a while (as it did at ATL on our last visit) there is much less of a wait for baggage (last time by the time we got to the baggage hall our baggage was neatly lined up on the floor).

This leads to the question if you have pre-clearance and a connecting flight presumably your luggage gets cleared through and you don't have to reclaim at the US arrival airport?

Yes. You’re effectively arriving as domestic. If you have a connection after you arrive in the USA your bags are automatically routed, there’s no need to collect them at your US arrivals point, because really that’s become where you pre-cleared. If you connect to a Pre-Clearance airport, say going LHR-DUB-DFW, my understanding is at the US border in Dublin they have photos of your luggage and may question you in regard to it, I connected in Dublin on separate tickets and checked my own baggage with AA in Dublin so have no direct experience of this.

Having lounges and shops etc in pre clearance is perfectly fine. There are shops and lounges at both SNN and DUB for example.

Yes, but once you've pre-cleared don't you have to remain in the pre-clearance area? i.e. you cannot pre-clear then decide to go duty free shopping in the main duty free shop. So any shops / lounges have to be in the specific pre-clearance area.

Yes this is correct. It’s a sterile secure area, but as Tonty says it’s most definitely not a part of the USA.

The “Virgin Lounge” is now being openly referred to on MAN-TP update material.

Doesn’t confirm it is a Clubhouse, but as the only other thing it could be is a V-Room (and MAN already has one of those) it is highly likely to be a Clubhouse (the space looks pretty big on the images so hopefully it will live up to its billing).

Can you link this material if possible?

Hi there - I hope the link below works.

It should be post number 3326 (Scottie Dog) and you are looking at the fourth image (titles Terminal 2 extension).

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airport ... st10550000

The MAN Clubhouse is just about the worst kept secret out! Am amazed Virgin have not announced it officially yet.

[mitchja]

My guess will be this will be similar to the current LGW setup having both a VS Clubhouse and a V Hols V:Room adjacent to each other.

What’s the plan for the existing airside areas in what is currently T2 once this new section opens? I would imagine once the new check-in /security areas open the existing landside areas will close for renovation/rebuilding. Will the airside areas also close too? If so there will be no access to the current V:Room or other lounges on the upper level.

Hi there - I hope the link below works.

It should be post number 3326 (Scottie Dog) and you are looking at the fourth image (titles Terminal 2 extension).

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airport ... st10550000

Ah thank you! Normally those get posted to a-net but I guess they haven't been