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#958897 by VS075
14 Jan 2021, 14:01
Link to Norwegian's press release here: https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... rk-3064682

If you ask me, abandoning long-haul is simply what Norwegian had to do to give itself a fighting chance of survival. I would argue that entering the long-haul market and its subsequent execution is a major factor behind their financial woes. The reliability (in the early days) and engine issues with the 787's along with the 737 MAX groundings wouldn't have helped their cause either.

I doubt airlines such as VS or BA will now be abandoning the hand luggage-only Y fares they've introduced in recent years, some of which was no doubt introduced in response to Norwegian wading into their respective territories in the long-haul market. Likewise with the densification of the LGW-based BA 777's.

All that said, I feel for the staff affected.
#958909 by Moley
15 Jan 2021, 09:21
That’s another competitor gone from Gatwick.

The number of options for flying to Orlando is dropping. I was going to say that maybe Tui will finally switch from Sanford to MCO but given Disney’s decision to ditch its Magical Express Service, it’s not going to make much difference!
#958910 by Hurricane86
15 Jan 2021, 12:44
Moley wrote:That’s another competitor gone from Gatwick.

The number of options for flying to Orlando is dropping. I was going to say that maybe Tui will finally switch from Sanford to MCO but given Disney’s decision to ditch its Magical Express Service, it’s not going to make much difference!



Hi Moley. TUI are actually switching from Sanford to 'Orlando Melbourne' airport from Spring 2022 - see https://www.tui.co.uk/press/tui-uk-announces-new-florida-airport-from-2022/

I think depending on how the recovery pans out, LGW now has significant gaps in long-haul leisure which will need to be filled by somebody.
#958911 by VS075
15 Jan 2021, 13:39
Port Canaveral's proximity to MLB was specifically name-checked when TUI announced their moving of ops from SFB to MLB. Given they also own Marella Cruises, it makes you wonder if this was partly done with a view to offering holidays involving cruises to/from Port Canaveral?

Either way, time will tell how well TUI get on at MLB. I guess people won't mind if the price is right given their long-standing presence at SFB all these years despite the distance from the main Orlando attractions, plus their onboard product on the 787 isn't something to turn your nose up to I gather. Less than ideal though if you have to drive to/from the Gulf Coast, but then TUI will have their own data of where their customers go on holiday in the Sunshine State.

I also agree that there's gaps in the route network from LGW, as well as overall drops in whatever capacity remains moving forward. Same with MAN to be fair which is something Aer Lingus is looking to exploit.
Last edited by VS075 on 15 Jan 2021, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
#958912 by VS075
15 Jan 2021, 13:43
Moley wrote:That’s another competitor gone from Gatwick.

The number of options for flying to Orlando is dropping. I was going to say that maybe Tui will finally switch from Sanford to MCO but given Disney’s decision to ditch its Magical Express Service, it’s not going to make much difference!


I wonder if the penny is finally dropping with Disney that many people who holiday at Disney don't necessarily want to stay on site from start to finish?

That said, it's a perk of staying at a Disney hotel either end of a trip that's no more after this calendar year.
#958922 by mikethe3rd
16 Jan 2021, 05:04
VS075 wrote:
Moley wrote:That’s another competitor gone from Gatwick.

The number of options for flying to Orlando is dropping. I was going to say that maybe Tui will finally switch from Sanford to MCO but given Disney’s decision to ditch its Magical Express Service, it’s not going to make much difference!


I wonder if the penny is finally dropping with Disney that many people who holiday at Disney don't necessarily want to stay on site from start to finish?

That said, it's a perk of staying at a Disney hotel either end of a trip that's no more after this calendar year.


I doubt it. It’s just another cost cutting exercise surely? APs at Disneyland* cut and the Extra Magic Hours cancellation pretty much rolled into the same announcement.

* - wrong thread/forum for it, but I don’t quite understand their logic here. We’ve owned Universal AP’s for a while and the amount of money we put it into the ecosystem each visit surely outweighs the cheap visits.

(Just to stress this is only Disneyland Annual Passes and not Orlando)
#958928 by David
16 Jan 2021, 09:18
The extra magic hours thing is being changed. Ever on-site guest will get early 30 mins entry to any park they want on any day they want, rather than just an extra hour(s) at a specific park on a specific day.

Mears, who run the magical express have already confirmed they will continue the service but I don’t think this will include the baggage facility where your bags automatically appear at your hotel room. Rumours also say that around the time Disney’s magical express finish the new Brightline train that leaves MCO will stop at Disney Springs where you will then be able to jump on a resort bus.

Not ideal when your humping suitcases around but another option.

David
#958930 by ColOrd
16 Jan 2021, 10:30
Thoughts with the staff affected, particularly those UK based crews at LGW A very sad time indeed for them personally, but also, for the travel industry more broadly, DY was a huge player at LGW with Long Haul travel and had quite a route network with some really big ticket destinations. I will set aside the questions about viability and profitability for the main part, but there was some demand being stoked for sure.

This will be another body blow, whilst inevitable, for LGW, it’s longer term recovery I fear will take some time!

It might sound slightly callous but with another TATL player out of the market, does this help VS in the medium term once the US reopens?

Another key question to be asked - what will IAG now do with the remaining LEVEL routes? I suspect quietly dropped as there’s just no need for it now!
#958950 by nicsbx
Yesterday, 12:44
David wrote:The extra magic hours thing is being changed. Ever on-site guest will get early 30 mins entry to any park they want on any day they want, rather than just an extra hour(s) at a specific park on a specific day.

Mears, who run the magical express have already confirmed they will continue the service but I don’t think this will include the baggage facility where your bags automatically appear at your hotel room. Rumours also say that around the time Disney’s magical express finish the new Brightline train that leaves MCO will stop at Disney Springs where you will then be able to jump on a resort bus.

Not ideal when your humping suitcases around but another option.

David


I don't think the Brightline service will be up and running within the next 11 months. I believe the idea is that the service will reach MCO sometime in 2022, but the extra track to Disney/Tampa will begin construction after that. It might be good for American visitors who are just visiting for a short spell but for international visitors it's really little use, given the singular destination and need to get to resort hotels with a lot of baggage.

Magical Express's end is a really confusing situation. Mears will pick up the business, but it leaves a sour taste for Disney resort guests for sure.
#958962 by VS075
Today, 10:40
nicsbx wrote:
David wrote:The extra magic hours thing is being changed. Ever on-site guest will get early 30 mins entry to any park they want on any day they want, rather than just an extra hour(s) at a specific park on a specific day.

Mears, who run the magical express have already confirmed they will continue the service but I don’t think this will include the baggage facility where your bags automatically appear at your hotel room. Rumours also say that around the time Disney’s magical express finish the new Brightline train that leaves MCO will stop at Disney Springs where you will then be able to jump on a resort bus.

Not ideal when your humping suitcases around but another option.

David


I don't think the Brightline service will be up and running within the next 11 months. I believe the idea is that the service will reach MCO sometime in 2022, but the extra track to Disney/Tampa will begin construction after that. It might be good for American visitors who are just visiting for a short spell but for international visitors it's really little use, given the singular destination and need to get to resort hotels with a lot of baggage.

Magical Express's end is a really confusing situation. Mears will pick up the business, but it leaves a sour taste for Disney resort guests for sure.


Brightline's future expansion west of Orlando towards Tampa is some years away yet and will be of little consolation to those who would ordinarily use Magical Express in the meantime. It'll be good to have a rail option between MCO and Disney in the future.

ColOrd wrote:It might sound slightly callous but with another TATL player out of the market, does this help VS in the medium term once the US reopens?

Another key question to be asked - what will IAG now do with the remaining LEVEL routes? I suspect quietly dropped as there’s just no need for it now!


It might help VS on routes they competed together on, but their impact has long been felt already with the three tier economy fares. The bigger issue as I see it is how quickly will demand recover?

As for LEVEL, it wouldn't surprise me. BA were quick to dump their LGW-OAK and LGW-FLL routes as soon as Norwegian had initially announced moving to SFO and MIA respectively, plus if I'm not mistaken LEVEL long-haul uses Iberia aircraft and AOC anyway. The short-haul side was shut down last year.
#958963 by Kraken
Today, 11:16
I agree the withdrawal of the Magical Express service will be a blow for guests who just wanted to stay on-Disney property for the duration of their break & not leave the Disney bubble. Personally this is my idea of pure hell - hence why we never have & never would stay on-site at Disney. That said, as above, it will be a blow to many guests. I can see Mears will pick up the business - but it will doubtless be chargeable from next year & some of the benefits, i.e. luggage delivered direct to your room will probably cease.

When Brightline does go to Disney Springs, it's going to be a right sod of a journey. The MCO railway station will be in terminal C. So it will be AGT from the B satellite to the main terminal, then onto the new AGT to get out to terminal C - with bags in tow. Then a train ride to Disney Springs, then a Disney bus ride to your hotel. And as it's been mentioned on various forums, Disney transport does not currently permit luggage. I can foresee many families just forking out for the Mears DME replacement service - especially if they have luggage including car-seats, pushchairs & tired fed-up children in-tow.

Personally, I would not hold my breath for Brightline. The USA goes not really do public transport - particularly rail.

I'd be far more concerned about what may happen to direct flight prices to MCO from London & Manchester. Virgin have the market to themselves at Manchester now & there is only them & BA from London. APD is not going to decrease as the chancellor can't afford any tax cuts. Airport usage fees are unlikely to decrease. Capacity has been reduced from both London & Manchester due to the retirement of the VS 747's. Admittedly, the capacity reduction won't matter in the short-term, but longer term it may have an effect. That said, there are enough slots knocking round for additional flights to be run, as long as the airlines have suitable aircraft available (somewhat likely!).

The US DOT cannot approve the Aer Lingus direct flights from Manchester to MCO soon enough to give Virgin some competition. Admittedly, this would still result in a VS / IAG duopoly on the routes, but at lest there would be competition at both London and Manchester. If I didn't have Global Entry, I'd actually consider doing Aer Lingus indirect to take advantage of the pre-clearance facility in Dublin, if the flight times were reasonable - as you have to take the US CBP hit somewhere.
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