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#960275 by David
28 Mar 2021, 12:33
Will all the new freight routes that have been keeping VS going in the last year, do you think they might keep them going when things get back to normal and add passenger traffic onto to them ?

Would be great to add some European routes


David
#960279 by ColOrd
28 Mar 2021, 16:06
Seoul was temporary from a Cargo perspective, but there is a longer term contract that VS are in discussions with that could be very lucrative, and if it happens and comes off would almost certainly see the route opping with Pax.

San Juan I agree could be a bolt on to other Caribbean sectors?

Harstad-Narvik could stay but would probably be slotted in as a cargo rotation between pax flights!

There is no way that MXP or BRU will convert to Pax flights, but again may slot as cargo rotations if the freight demand is there, but as recovery starts to happen there will be more cargo capacity on Pax flights restarting from those locations so VS may not be required to.

The one to watch for me - ORD - it’s a popular tourist destination and provably the most popular big city in the US VS don’t serve, DL are underserved there from a hub perspective and it’s AAs stronghold, but the Cargo traffic might just tip it?
#960284 by David
28 Mar 2021, 17:50
Are there any regulations why VS couldn’t put passengers on the current freight flights notwithstanding the current legal travel issues.

Am guessing that these flights don’t have anywhere a full crew so that must have a barring but you might think that if they were able to sell seats, they would but maybe the costs of manning check ins / gates etc out way the benefits of some passenger revenue.

David
#961449 by ColOrd
26 Jul 2021, 18:29
https://www.hangar.no/virgin-atlantic-c ... e-med-usa/

Its in Norwegian, but easily translated in most browsers, and I cannot find the press release that I saw on LinkedIn, but VS are expanding Harstad, now flying from there to JFK for Shellfish deliveries! I am not sure how frequent those will operate, but again, an interesting, and somewhat odd route that one would have never expected pre-Covid!
#961451 by VS075
27 Jul 2021, 11:45
ColOrd wrote:https://www.hangar.no/virgin-atlantic-cargo-kobler-nord-norge-med-usa/

Its in Norwegian, but easily translated in most browsers, and I cannot find the press release that I saw on LinkedIn, but VS are expanding Harstad, now flying from there to JFK for Shellfish deliveries! I am not sure how frequent those will operate, but again, an interesting, and somewhat odd route that one would have never expected pre-Covid!


Could have been one for Norwegian had they not downsized and disposed of their 787's.

mitchja wrote:Yes, VS have tried ORD twice now!


I'll be surprised if a third attempt is made. To compound the previous attempts, ORD can't really be utilised well for onward connections as Delta doesn't have a great presence there. If Wikipedia is accurate, their only flights are to other DL hubs and major places that are already served by either VS or DL from the UK (or was pre-COVID).

ORD is well and truly a fortress for AA and United, so VS are probably better off focusing efforts elsewhere.

David wrote:Will all the new freight routes that have been keeping VS going in the last year, do you think they might keep them going when things get back to normal and add passenger traffic onto to them ?

Would be great to add some European routes


David


It's a good question. There are numerous routes operated by other airlines worldwide (including VS maybe) that are there because the cargo revenues are lucrative and make the route profitable even when passenger revenues alone aren't enough. It explains why some routes have always been there whilst others that look good on paper don't last.

I guess the answer to your question will be whether it's more profitable for VS to continue operating these routes compared to reverting to their normal routes, and if they can get rights to carry passengers to some of these destinations.
#961452 by Kraken
27 Jul 2021, 12:32
Given that when things - particularly the US border opening - returns to what will be the "new normal", I can't see Virgin (or any other airline) returning to a full schedule in a big-bang approach on TATL routes. They will build the schedule up gradually to match demand.

As such, the cargo flights could be very useful to Virgin & other airlines with a notable LHR slot portfolio. Use the slots on to slip in cargo flights inbetween passenger ops to keep the slots in use. The "use it or lose it" rule will be reinstated at sometime in the future and LHR slots are too valuable to lose.
#961455 by ColOrd
27 Jul 2021, 15:35
VS75, don't shoot me down just yet with that Chicago suggestion despite the fact that its an AA stronghold, it must be the single biggest O&D between the UK and the US that VS is not already in. I think it's the third biggest city in US and one that has a huge and thriving tourism scene popular with Brits, I don't get why particularly in the Summer months it shouldn't be a shoe in for a good route for VS.
#961457 by VS075
27 Jul 2021, 16:54
ColOrd wrote:VS75, don't shoot me down just yet with that Chicago suggestion despite the fact that its an AA stronghold, it must be the single biggest O&D between the UK and the US that VS is not already in. I think it's the third biggest city in US and one that has a huge and thriving tourism scene popular with Brits, I don't get why particularly in the Summer months it shouldn't be a shoe in for a good route for VS.


I'm not shooting you down at all! I'm also baffled as to why previous attempts have failed, though I think the closure of the route first time round was in response to the post-9/11 downturn as it was some time before they returned for a second time. I can only guess VS found it more profitable to fly elsewhere than continue to serve ORD, though I'm not sure the seasonal nature of the route helped its cause when three competitors had multiple flights per day between them year round.
#961461 by Kraken
27 Jul 2021, 20:41
VS075 wrote:I'm not shooting you down at all! I'm also baffled as to why previous attempts have failed, though I think the closure of the route first time round was in response to the post-9/11 downturn as it was some time before they returned for a second time. I can only guess VS found it more profitable to fly elsewhere than continue to serve ORD, though I'm not sure the seasonal nature of the route helped its cause when three competitors had multiple flights per day between them year round.


I suspect VS could not make ORD work for exactly the above reasons - they were just hammered with multiple frequencies on the route by 3 competitors in Heathrow. All VS could manage was one flight a day - and seasonal at that.

It's not dissimilar to how they dropped DXB. Despite pretty good feed from Virgin Holidays, Emirates were screwing them from most of the major regional airports. Why travel to LHR (unless you live really close by) for the Clubhouse & the one daily Virgin flight to DXB? [Pre-pandemic] Emirates offered multiple daily flights from most of the major UK airports. TBH I'm surprised BA managed to maintain / justify two daily flights to DXB from LHR.
#961465 by LREDI
27 Jul 2021, 22:25
ICN would be popular given BA have given up on it and the issues facing Korean and Asiana. Question will be whether its best served by VS or AF KLM code share.

San Juan - that's a no brainer in my opinion.
#961472 by VS075
28 Jul 2021, 13:31
Kraken wrote:It's not dissimilar to how they dropped DXB. Despite pretty good feed from Virgin Holidays, Emirates were screwing them from most of the major regional airports. Why travel to LHR (unless you live really close by) for the Clubhouse & the one daily Virgin flight to DXB? [Pre-pandemic] Emirates offered multiple daily flights from most of the major UK airports. TBH I'm surprised BA managed to maintain / justify two daily flights to DXB from LHR.


I know some on here were sad about the loss of the DXB route, but it's your thoughts exactly re. DXB. I live within 45 minutes of MAN, so it's a no-brainer to fly direct with Emirates or use them for onward connections going east given that pre-pandemic there were three flights per day, all of which were on A380's which are a draw in their own right. That said, I've known of people living up here to get good deals on Dubai holiday packages with BA Holidays if they go via LHR.

As for BA, I guess connecting traffic plays a huge part as they fly to a lot of places in the Americas that Emirates don't, plus there's probably enough O&D traffic who will only ever fly on BA for whatever reason.
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