[:0] That is one big hole, sounds pretty scary link
I'd have more than vomited! [:0]
'After we landed, there was a very large hole that wasn't there when we took off in Hong Kong.'
[ii]
Scary - but good the see the praise for the crew.
'As passengers were evacuated'. Well, some of them probably were, but I think the journalist means that the aircraft was evacuated. Amazing what you can learn from 'The Wire'.
Paul
'As passengers were evacuated'. Well, some of them probably were, but I think the journalist means that the aircraft was evacuated. Amazing what you can learn from 'The Wire'.
Paul
We can get better, because we're not dead yet
I love the quote 'Everyone listened to the cabin staff' Well that must be a first for some. I wonder how many read the safety card for the first time?
Thanks
Darren
Darren
Originally posted by Denzil
Look a bit closer Scrooge, the wing root fairing is the large 'D' shaped fairing that is missing. You will also see a hole from the cargo compartment (this would have caused loss of the fairing).
That what I am saying, the fairing is just that, it is a piece of fiber glass that is not load bearing, it is designed to ease the air flow around the wing/fuselage.
It is mounted against the wing but also it is attached the the body of the aircraft itself, now the obvious cause of it not being there is that when the panel let go it had no support from the body, it lifts up/down against the airflow and rips away, taking the body panel with it.
Of course I am just looking at pictures, the people from Boeing and QF will be having a very much closer look at it.
First I would point out that I have absolutely no concerns about the safety & maintenance of VS aircraft - If I had I wouldn't be in them at 30,000'
Second Ð I know a little about aircraft Ð I am not an engineer!
Given that I will attempt some amateur comment.
The vital structure of the 744 is a series of frames which run around the circumference of the body linked with stringers which run laterally. They strengthen the pressure hull which keeps the pressurised air inside.
This can be seen in this photo.
Looking at the damage,
the most visible thing is that a large bit of the outer surface is missing. This is simply a fairing Ð it is not in any way structural Ð it simply is there to lower air resistance & turbulence.
The important damage can be seen to the pressure hull Ð the bit painted green Ð which is clearly breached and peeled outwards.
Also many stringers are missing and/or bent out-over. You can see the attachment lines of the stringers in the pressure hull sheet.
The aircraft was above 30,000' ; above 70% of the atmosphere so the inside pressure is considerably greater than the outside pressure. The difference gives a force on the pressure hull of roughly 5 tonnes on every m_. This is aluminium sheet strengthened by those frames & stringers.
There is lots of speculation about corrosion Ð speculation! Any damage or corrosion could considerably weaken that structure. Great lengths are taken to prevent corrosion and frequent checks are made particularly on old air-frames like this one.
Anyone who has had an old LandRover will know what coffee and coke can do to aluminium. This is why great care is normally taken with spillages but it is known that problems can occur beneath the galley & toilets. These areas are normally carefully checked.
The point at which the rupture occurred is also where the oxygen bottles are placed against the hull.
There is also some wild speculation about these bottles but it is fairly clear that if pax bottles had exploded, the passengers would certainly have noticed the lack of oxygen at 30,000'. Bottles are interconnected. Flight crew bottles are on a seperate circuit. One possible difficulty could occur if corroded structure were not clearly visible behind the bottles.
I suspect a close examination of every 744 has already been done in this area!
Any assessment now is entirely speculation. I suspect we may get some authoritative statement soon.
Second Ð I know a little about aircraft Ð I am not an engineer!
Given that I will attempt some amateur comment.
The vital structure of the 744 is a series of frames which run around the circumference of the body linked with stringers which run laterally. They strengthen the pressure hull which keeps the pressurised air inside.
This can be seen in this photo.
Looking at the damage,
the most visible thing is that a large bit of the outer surface is missing. This is simply a fairing Ð it is not in any way structural Ð it simply is there to lower air resistance & turbulence.
The important damage can be seen to the pressure hull Ð the bit painted green Ð which is clearly breached and peeled outwards.
Also many stringers are missing and/or bent out-over. You can see the attachment lines of the stringers in the pressure hull sheet.
The aircraft was above 30,000' ; above 70% of the atmosphere so the inside pressure is considerably greater than the outside pressure. The difference gives a force on the pressure hull of roughly 5 tonnes on every m_. This is aluminium sheet strengthened by those frames & stringers.
There is lots of speculation about corrosion Ð speculation! Any damage or corrosion could considerably weaken that structure. Great lengths are taken to prevent corrosion and frequent checks are made particularly on old air-frames like this one.
Anyone who has had an old LandRover will know what coffee and coke can do to aluminium. This is why great care is normally taken with spillages but it is known that problems can occur beneath the galley & toilets. These areas are normally carefully checked.
The point at which the rupture occurred is also where the oxygen bottles are placed against the hull.
There is also some wild speculation about these bottles but it is fairly clear that if pax bottles had exploded, the passengers would certainly have noticed the lack of oxygen at 30,000'. Bottles are interconnected. Flight crew bottles are on a seperate circuit. One possible difficulty could occur if corroded structure were not clearly visible behind the bottles.
I suspect a close examination of every 744 has already been done in this area!
Any assessment now is entirely speculation. I suspect we may get some authoritative statement soon.
As Rain Man said (aka Dustin Hoffman/Tom Cruise):
Charlie: Ray, all airlines have crashed at one time or another, that doesn't mean that they are not safe.
Raymond: QANTAS. QANTAS never crashed.
Charlie: QANTAS?
Raymond: Never crashed.
Charlie: Oh that's gonna do me a lot of good because QANTAS doesn't fly to Los Angeles out of Cincinnati, you have to get to Melbourne! Melbourne, Australia in order to get the plane that flies to Los Angeles!
My Dad used to fly 744's and whilst never had an emergency of this situation has had to do emergency decents. The media is once again hyping this up, and we have yet to see an substantiated facts from either the airline or Boeing.
What no one has done, (media included) sadly, is congratulate all the crew on the flight in reacting well and getting all back on the ground safely.... that really is quite sad.
Charlie: Ray, all airlines have crashed at one time or another, that doesn't mean that they are not safe.
Raymond: QANTAS. QANTAS never crashed.
Charlie: QANTAS?
Raymond: Never crashed.
Charlie: Oh that's gonna do me a lot of good because QANTAS doesn't fly to Los Angeles out of Cincinnati, you have to get to Melbourne! Melbourne, Australia in order to get the plane that flies to Los Angeles!
My Dad used to fly 744's and whilst never had an emergency of this situation has had to do emergency decents. The media is once again hyping this up, and we have yet to see an substantiated facts from either the airline or Boeing.
What no one has done, (media included) sadly, is congratulate all the crew on the flight in reacting well and getting all back on the ground safely.... that really is quite sad.
Just thought would add my 2 cents worth.
Firstly well done to the crew whilst they train for this in the simulator I would imagine that in real life with 400 odd people sitting at the back its a lot harder!
Interesting to see from the video that the cabin crew were not wearing Oxygen masks. I would have thought they would have had them on also, or was it because at that point the a/c was only at 10,000 feet?
With regards to the Oxygen masks I always find it interesting that VS dont tell passengers in the safety announcement that the bag on the Oxygen mask will probably not inflate as you breath in and out. Other airlines do and I would imagine some people would panic that it wasn't working!
Fox NEws in the US was reporting that it is now looking like an Oxygen cylinder exploded and that a part of an exploded cylinder was found in the cabin. I am not sure how much truth this holds. There were also claiming that the FAA and Boeing had warned 744 operators of a possible problem regarding the front cargo hold. Again unclear if this is just gossip.
Has anyone else heard anything?
My best friend from school is now a First Officer at Qantas on the 744, he wasn't on the deck of this flight but said that work has been hectic since with lots of rumours flying around his SYD base.
Firstly well done to the crew whilst they train for this in the simulator I would imagine that in real life with 400 odd people sitting at the back its a lot harder!
Interesting to see from the video that the cabin crew were not wearing Oxygen masks. I would have thought they would have had them on also, or was it because at that point the a/c was only at 10,000 feet?
With regards to the Oxygen masks I always find it interesting that VS dont tell passengers in the safety announcement that the bag on the Oxygen mask will probably not inflate as you breath in and out. Other airlines do and I would imagine some people would panic that it wasn't working!
Fox NEws in the US was reporting that it is now looking like an Oxygen cylinder exploded and that a part of an exploded cylinder was found in the cabin. I am not sure how much truth this holds. There were also claiming that the FAA and Boeing had warned 744 operators of a possible problem regarding the front cargo hold. Again unclear if this is just gossip.
Has anyone else heard anything?
My best friend from school is now a First Officer at Qantas on the 744, he wasn't on the deck of this flight but said that work has been hectic since with lots of rumours flying around his SYD base.
Originally posted by willd
Interesting to see from the video that the cabin crew were not wearing Oxygen masks. I would have thought they would have had them on also, or was it because at that point the a/c was only at 10,000 feet?
Yep as you can see from the IFE screens on the video, the aircraft was at 10,000ft. At this height, you no longer need to use the oxygen masks hence why the crew are able to walk around to check on passengers.
Originally posted by TinkerbelleOriginally posted by willd
Interesting to see from the video that the cabin crew were not wearing Oxygen masks. I would have thought they would have had them on also, or was it because at that point the a/c was only at 10,000 feet?
Yep as you can see from the IFE screens on the video, the aircraft was at 10,000ft. At this height, you no longer need to use the oxygen masks hence why the crew are able to walk around to check on passengers.
Yeh I did a bit of digging around on a.net and one of the pax has posted a TR on the emergency!
Seems the call 'Follow Up Procedure' is used by QF to allow the crew to leave seats.
I never realised until reading some of the info on this incident that 744 can descend from 35,000 to 10,000 in 2 minutes, thats rapid! Apparently when we all fly they descend at a rate of 2,000 feet in approx 2 minutes.
I would imagine the hardest part of the whole experience once it was over is actually getting back on a plane. I would be freaked. I guess its like when you fall off a bike, the best thing to do is get straight back on!
The TR on the event is here for those that are interested.
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