US immigration

Well, my harmonious relationship with the USA came to an abrupt end with my entry into MIA on Thursday.I travel to the USA between 2 and 4 times a year (as a leisure traveller) and my current trip is my third visit since March. Prior to Thursday I'd never ever had any problems at immigration - printed, scanned, bye bye.
This all changed on Thursday. Mr DL and I hot footed it off the (AA) plane and were 3rd in line at immigration. Mr DL was printed,scanned and duly stamped in, but for some reason following printing and scanning I was escorted to the back of the immigration hall (having being ordered by a vile female official to stand with my back against the wall) whilst my passport was placed in a red folder and given to another official.My (polite) request to be informed as to the nature of the problem was met with shouting from the vile female.I was then escorted into another room (behind doors and with several other passengers there) and was left not knowing what the problem was. Worryingly, an official came and requested my baggage receipt so I had a feeling I might be there a while.After nearly an hour I was called up to a desk and printed and scanned again. The presiding official then stamped my passport and tossed it on to the counter (without saying a word).When I asked if this meant I was free to go I received a further snarl in the affirmative. I still have no idea as to why I seemed to cause concern -my ESTA application was approved several months ago without any problems and my last (unproblematic )entry was only about 10 weeks ago.Anyone any ideas? It's rather put me off coming back here as I have no desire to go through that again (and I've flights bought and paid for already).
DL

[mitchja]

Been there, done that and got the T-Shirt. I also got the same treatment as it turned out my full name & DOB match a person who is on one or both of the FBI databases they check your details against during passport processing. I now have a signed and sealed Affidavit stating I am not this person on the list and I dont have any form of crimal record in any country.

I found this info out only by writing to the US CBP who explained there was nothing wrong with my immigration records but the problem was the name/DOB match on the FBI lists. They told me which US court to contact to get them to perform a criminal record search and to issue my Affidavit stating I am not this person on the lists. You are supposed to pay for this but they did it free of charge in the end.

Secondary immiration screening involves a deeper more widespread search on your personal details (thats all they would tell me when I asked what was involved)

I believe the reason why MIA is so bad when it comes to secondary screening is because they get many more illigal immigrants passing though their ports.

I got treated exactly the same as you by rude ignorant and offensive officers at MIA. There where families there split up with other minor passport problems who where told point blank not to make a mobile phone call to tell their other family members where they where. One of them even made a rude comment about my middle name [V]

All I can suggest you do is make an official complaint, although I did this after my 2 hour hell experience in that same closed off waiting room and nothing happened as they just ignored it and when i chased it up they then denied they had received anything from me despite me sending them a copy of my passport and other forms of ID they had requested after making the initial complaint.

There's a link on this page to make a complaint.

After my experience I have made the decision to never fly to MIA again.

Compare this to yesterdays experience of coming through ORD as I was processed by one of the nicest immigration officers I've ever come across. She didn't even send me to secondary screening and was impressed I'd gone to all the trouble I had gone to to get my Affidavit.

I've also had secondary screening at IAD but again I was treated with respect there and it only took a few minutes.

Please dont let this experience stop you from travelling to the US. The way I looked at it afterwards was the fact I knew that I had nothing to hide or had done anything wrong.

Regards

Mrs DL I am sorry that you had to experience US Immigration like this - it seems after seven years since 911 they really haven't learnt any lessons. Like mitchja I too hate MIA and believe the experience there is worse than many other US airports. Complaining may feel hollow, but it is the only thing to do.

Originally posted by mitchja
One of them even made a rude comment about my middle name [V]

Eek. We've tentative plans to do MCO via MIA in 2010..and my surname is Mitchell and I and my son have an unusual (Scottish based) family middle name....

...I have enough trouble with my mates!

DL - you have my sympathies with regard to your experience - it must have been awful - I think I probably would have needed to change my trousers after an experience like that.

I echo a couple of comments here - don't let it put you off - I generally feel the user interaction with US immigration has improved condirably over the experience I used to get in the 70s and 80s and rarely ever have any trouble. Indeed the last issue I had was when they tried to refuse entry to my, at the time, 5 month prgnant wife because although she had been issues a US visa she only had 5 months on her passport - apparantly some money changing hands mitigated the security risk.

Generally on my trips - mostly LA,NY (JFK, EWR) and MCO I find them almost without exception to be courteous and proffessional - I just think they need to realise that most of the people they pick up on primary screening are innocent and treat them as such.

FM

P.S. You weren't wanting 'Harold and Kumar 2 Escape from Guantanamo Bay' on the plane were you - that would have done if for me!!

Originally posted by Slipperman


my surname is Mitchell and I and my son have an unusual (Scottish based) family middle name....

It's not McOsama is it? That could be awkward...

Sorry to hear you had such an awful time getting into The Land Of The Free, DL. Here's hoping we fair better next week.

Out of curiousity, is there any real advantage to applying via ESTA or will we be fine with a visa waiver?

Originally posted by mdvipond
Out of curiousity, is there any real advantage to applying via ESTA or will we be fine with a visa waiver?

No difference until January - then, do not forget, ESTA will be compulsary.

I love the way they have a mission statement that all people will be treated with respect etc etc.

had similar last yr at NWK, myself, my mother in her late 60's and my two yr old.
CO flight, then waiting in first queue for 1/4 hr, to get to the front- desk closing.. 'join the next line'
same happened two times! - spending 1.5 hrs in Immigration Hall, by this time said 2 yr old having been great on flight was rolling round on the floor in complete boredom/ tiredness.
Eventually get to desk, having been told, they were to close too!(to which obvious reaction occurs), processed. except my passport - bagged up and I'm escourted away (leaving my mother/ 2 yr old child and all our baggage for her to handle on her own).
To be fair I pleaded with Police guy, who could obviously see she was unable to manage and allowed them to come with.
down a lift into big empty room- another 1/2 hr wait, then called, grunted at, passport stamped and allowed to go...By this time all our lugguage had been thrown off the reclaim system and left in a heap. (to add insult to this, completely crushed our pram.. no comeback on insurance either)

Thanks for the replies (and for the links James).I will make a complaint, because whilst I have no issue with increased security being neccessary, I do have an issue with how the process was applied to me.Just explaining the reason/s to me would have lessened my anxiety on Thursday.
DL

I had a similar problem flying into LAX last year. I've heard that MIA is the worst of the airports but apparently LAX is not too far behind at times. They promised me that every time I entered the US again in the future I would face a similar interrogation, but nothing has happened on the few times I've been back since. Flying into SFO, IAD etc is such a pleasure compared to MIA. In fact, I had a lot of strife arriving at JFK once. The [female] immigration officer seemed to be either hating me or flirting with me - I never did figure out which. She accused me of wanting to go out 'chasing tail' in her neighbourhood, when she figured out I was staying with friends there. I don't know what she'd have done if she found me in her local bar. (I didn't bother trying to explain to her that i'm a gay, and she was fairly safe from my advances. That could have gone either way, too!)

Originally posted by slinky09

Originally posted by mdvipond
Out of curiousity, is there any real advantage to applying via ESTA or will we be fine with a visa waiver?

No difference until January - then, do not forget, ESTA will be compulsary.

Thanks slink. This whole thread has made me (characteristically) twitchy about the upcoming trip...

[Scrooge]

MIA is the worst.

It has a lot of illegals coming through, it is used as a training site for agents and of course the agents are abused (verbally) so in short order they stop being nice, even if you are being nice.

At best guess as James said, your name matched someone on the watch list, honestly until you are cleared you are assumed to be that person, once you get through the secondary screening though they should of at least said sorry and explained the situation to you.

I sent you a PM regarding this matter.

Originally posted by Scrooge
honestly until you are cleared you are assumed to be that person,

I am sure you are - but the question is Why? - the law of averages says you probably aren't and surely it makes more sense to be reasonably polite and then if you do turn out to be that person they can insult you twice as much later to make up for it.

If the passenger starts getting abusive I can understand it as the liklihood of a perp increases.

FM

P.S. It seems silly that the screening is so much more severe through MIA - do they not consider that all the intelligent criminals might actually avoid MIA like the plague?

[Scrooge]

Why ? because the system says there is a good chance you are that person. Ask any law enforcement person, if they think they are dealing with a dangerous suspect they will act differently than if they are talking to someone in their inquiries??? Actually there are a couple of law enforcement people on here, maybe they can confirm this crazy idea of mine ?

Now should they act like a** holes when someone is being polite to them, of course not, I can not and will not say they are right to do so.

Why pick MIA as a transfer point if you are a 'bad guy' AA have a large South America operation, the sheer number of pax coming through act as a buffer for them, of course with the systems being put into place now it is becoming harder and harder.

Again, just to be clear, I am appalled at the way Dl was handled by the officers at MIA.

I have travelled into MIA 5 or 6 times previously with no problems (I even posted on here a while ago that the last immigration officer there had been pleasant!!). I had no probs at LAX at the end of August (immigration officer was charm personified), and I am always polite. I have never been in trouble with any kind of police/security service save a speeding fine in 1982 and being stopped in the same year because the police thought I was driving a stolen car (same new fast car I got caught speeding in).It wasn't, and they apologised profusely and sent me on my way.
I had no explanation as to why I was stopped (never mind an an apology) and am worried that I'll be subject to the same scenario on my next visit.Would an explanation have been too much? I was made to feel like a criminal, with the eyes of all those in the arrivals hall on me as I stood with my back against the wall being bawled at.
Thanks for the PM Dave- have responded.
DL
DL

Originally posted by Scrooge
Why ? because the system says there is a good chance you are that person.

I would have thought that if they were pulling aside people based purely on name then there is a good chance you're not that person - how many people have the same name - more than two surely. Surely most law enforcement officers surely develop a sense of identifying dangerous suspects and rely on something more than a name.

Anyway - I think what I was getting at is why they cannot show everyone the courtesy and respect that they promise. Surely there is a difference between arresting someone who is trying to jump over a fence and someone who has just disembarked a plane - and is reasonably contained and unlikely to be armed.

Dave - I appreciate that you were not condoning the action - I am not arguing counter to you - just questioning the attitudes of these people in a position of authority who routinely treat ordinary civilians like criminals.

FM

Hi DL

I feel for you - husband and I have also seen the show, read the book, bought the t-shirt quite a few times!

Basically a few years ago (2000, I think), a US immigration officer incorrectly stamped our passports and Visa Waiver Forms (he should have stamped 25 Feb 2000, but stamped them 25 Aug 2000 instead). Presumably then - at some point - the date stamp on the Visa Waiver forms entered the immigration computer system (somehow) and got recorded as 25 Aug 1999 (well 25 Aug 2000 hadn't happened yet...). So by the time we left, in March 2000, we had WELL over-stayed our 90 days (despite only being there, skiing, for 2 weeks). DESPITE the fact that we had been to LA (from the UK) anad back over Christmas 1999. So we were flagged in their system....

We, like you, travel backwards and forwards to the US about 3/4 times, or more, a year (holidays, family, the very occasional business meeting).

Back when this happened, the immigration systems were antiquated (hopefully it wouldn't happen today!) and, EVEN WORSE, once you had a 'flag' against your name, it seemed to take a LONG time for that flag to clear. Either that or we had incompetent immigration officers... Anyway, over a 2 year period, we got sent to secondary immigration checking (which is what you had) FIVE or SIX times!!! [:0] [B)]

The final time was particularly odd, because I didn't get secondary checked, but husband did! So my flag had cleared, but his hadn't... The checks were always for the same reason (that 'over-staying our welcome because of incorrect passport stamp').

Originally posted by DragonLady
I do have an issue with how the process was applied to me.Just explaining the reason/s to me would have lessened my anxiety on Thursday.

That is just the way that they work - after 5 or 6 times going through exactly what you did, I can say that with some conviction.

This was particularly annoying for us after the first time. The first time we didn't really know what was going on... To be fair, we did know why after the first time, but probably only because the immigration officer couldn't work it out by himself - so after about an hour and a half of trying, he had to start questioning us and we could piece things together (between us and him) as to why we were flagged. It helped that we had an 'impossible' passport stamp in our passports (i.e. we re-entered the US BEFORE 25 Aug 2000 - so how could we have an official stamp in the passport from the future...?)

Basically, when they take you to secondary they (just about) always tend to sit you there (normally in a room of other 'suspects') and then your paperwork is added to a pile. An officer eventually picks up your paperwork and tries to figure it out by himself/herself. They will not take any input or explanation from you (incase what you say clouds their judgement). After the first time, we could have explained the problem and been out of secondary in 10 minutes... but nobody will listen to an explanation: you get told to go sit quietly until they have scratched their heads for an hour and a half and THEN they will come and question you. We started carrying copies of boarding passes and other documentation to prove that we had been in and out of the USA in the period that they thought we were 'out-staying our welcome', but you could never give them to this straoght away (you had to do you one and a half hours before they would let you give it to them...).

The worst time for us was the last time. Only husband got flagged. It was at LAX, where the secondary waiting area was open to the baggage hall (at that time, anyway), fortunately, so I was allowed to get our bags and sit with him. It was Boxing Day. Actually really quite quiet. Only a couple of people infront of us, then a BIG arab family came in behind us. Only one bloke working secondary screening (another guy had just clocked off). He did the couple of people before us, then he did the big arab family, but he didn't do us. We literally waited for over and hour with us being the ONLY people in secondary and him not even looking at my husband's case. Eventually someone else clocked in and they took our case, then (amazingly) dealt with it relatively quickly. In all, we were in secondary for just over two hours - and for most of that time we were the only people there. That REALLY annoyed me! I didn't show any annoyance whilst there (because that is rather dangerous!), but have no idea why he wouldn't handle my husband's case... [?]

After that time (which was the 5th/6th in a row), I actually said to my husband that, if it happened again, that was the very last straw - I wouldn't go back to the US... I was VERY angry about their processes and lack of ability to record information or remove the flag (i.e. so we had the EXACT same problem over and over and over) and the fact that we had to endure this every time we went to the USA to spend loads of money into their economy... We are the sort of tourists that do the US a favour, not vice-versa. But fortunately that was the last time.

That DOESN'T excuse the way that your immigration officer yelled/snarled at you, but I am afraid that is all too common: of the 5 or 6 times we went to secondary, I would say that we had one nice guy... All of the other guys treated us with the suspicion and contempt of a piece of dog poo (always a great come down after travelling to the US in Upper/Business Class... [:w] ). And as for that last guy - well we obviously didn't even exist (on Boxing Day, in an empty immigration hall)....

I think that, generally, the US immigration services 'attracts' the wrong type of people. Yes they should be a bit aloof and they shouldn't be swayed by what people say, but they should still be fair, polite and a bit of explanation wouldn't go amiss... they shouldn't treat everyone as criminals. But the ego-maniacs you get in immigration and, especially since 9/11, they have a lot more power and 'cause' to treat you badly (since everyone is a potential terrorist).

Hopefully, for you, it will be a one off. Their computer systems are definitely more adavanced than they were a few years ago (when we had the problems). But it does leave a very bad taste in your mouth... [V]

Boo

Originally posted by DragonLady
I was made to feel like a criminal, with the eyes of all those in the arrivals hall on me as I stood with my back against the wall being bawled at.

Makes you look at people in those secondary immigration areas slightly differently in future... some may be illegal immigrants, some may be criminals, some may be 'polite, smart young professionals, who just stepped off of a Virgin flight from the UK (in UC) and are here to visit family or go skiing'.

As far as US iimmigration goes, it really is 'guilty until proven innocent'... it can be quite nasty and - if caught up in it - you have no choice but to keep your head down, get humuliated, accept it and just try to get out of there as soon as possible. The US government really should be ashamed of it's immigration service, but the threat of terrorism seems to excuse ANY behaviour [n]

Boo

This particular story and the fact that it seems to be standard practice is outrageous. Is it beyond the US Government and Immigration Service to behave in a civilised and polite manner during these checks? To default to a heavy handed, humilate and make them suffer approach before the matter has even been investigated is totally inappropriate. I thought our personal information was given in advance for this very reason?