Passengers removed after Knee Defender argument

Wow what a thread , I'm leaning one way then the other , it's a real difficult one but being quite tall 6ft 2 and quite big 19 st ( pure muscle obviously ) I can see both sides of this argument , the simplest thing would be if the seats didn't recline as my personnel opinion is that the recline gives minimal benefit to the person reclining but far more inconvenience to the person behind

Wow what a thread , I'm leaning one way then the other , it's a real difficult one but being quite tall 6ft 2 and quite big 19 st ( pure muscle obviously ) I can see both sides of this argument , the simplest thing would be if the seats didn't recline as my personnel opinion is that the recline gives minimal benefit to the person reclining but far more inconvenience to the person behind

Totally agree. The latter posts of this thread have identified some reasonable points. However I feel really sorry for PilotWolf as he has been subjected to some unnecessary remarks. Being called "arrogant" and being told to purchase a seat which won't inconvenience others, are not nice comments v(

If a person purchases an airline seat then they should be able to use all the facilities of that seat and the choice to 'recline' is one of them. Can you imagine the fuss if you find your UC seat doesn't go to a flatbed when required ):

On a recent BA economy flight my seat back tv didn't work. The cabin crew told me to complain and I subsequently received an apology and some air miles as compensation for the inconvenience.

Along the same lines, if a passenger cannot recline their seat because a tall person is sitting behind, then they deserve compensation. It's the 'not fit for purpose' argument!
So who is responsible I ask? Basically if there is no fault with the equipment (the seat) then why should the Airline pay compensation to their person who has had to sit bolt upright on a 10hour night flight!!

PilotWolf is trying to make his point and he acknowledges the problems of a tall person sitting behind, but he has highlighted there are other points and issues equally as important. Perhaps agree to disagree and stop being nasty y)

^ what hev60 said

Seems both sides of this argument are kind of saying, if you don't like it buy a more expensive seat, why is one side arrogant for saying that and the other not?
Seats are sold with recline, that is it really. If you know that will cause pain why not rage at the airline. If you are really tall why is that a factor for the person in front who never met you before. Why not just swap places or have a polite adult conversation about it.

OK. Let me post an analogy.

I book on VS7 and pay for a window seat. You are next to me, and not unreasonably you probably want to sleep, read or watch the IFE. But I paid for that window because I want to look at the view. And I am damned well going to.

If I didn't care that the bright light coming in for 12 hours stopped you from reading, sleeping or watching the IFE, you would probably have grounds to think of me as rude and an unpleasant seat mate. If when you asked me to close the blind, my attitude was 'I bought a window seat, it's part of my experience, get stuffed and move if you don't like it' you would (rightly I think!) have a real cause to complain.

You'd think of me as terribly arrogant. You'd be right.

Which is why I wouldn't do that, even if I did pay for the window seat.

Just because the aircraft lets you do something doesn't mean you should. Give and take and all that. But sadly for us tall people there is little we can do - apart from not travel or pay a great deal more for an upgrade. What annoyed me with some of the comments above is the 'screw you' tone of them.

For the record, if there is someone behind me I don't recline. Simple as that.

[preiffer]

The reality is, commercial passenger air travel is PUBLIC TRANSPORT. Aircraft cabins are not Burger King - if you want it 100% "your way", then get saving for a private jet.

Anything short of that, and the reasonable human expectation (for public transport) is that you must factor in the wellbeing and comfort of others around you. Especially on a journey that could be over 12 hours long.

Personally, I'm for the "remove the recline function altogether" argument if the airlines are so tight that they cannot look at the new SQ-alike seat designs. This thread does nothing to sway me from that position... They're putting passengers in a situation where there are potentially 300 people annoying another 300 people in a tight space inside a metal tube. Nothing good is coming from that.

OK. Let me post an analogy.

I book on VS7 and pay for a window seat. You are next to me, and not unreasonably you probably want to sleep, read or watch the IFE. But I paid for that window because I want to look at the view. And I am damned well going to.

If I didn't care that the bright light coming in for 12 hours stopped you from reading, sleeping or watching the IFE, you would probably have grounds to think of me as rude and an unpleasant seat mate. If when you asked me to close the blind, my attitude was 'I bought a window seat, it's part of my experience, get stuffed and move if you don't like it' you would (rightly I think!) have a real cause to complain.

You'd think of me as terribly arrogant. You'd be right.

Which is why I wouldn't do that, even if I did pay for the window seat.

Just because the aircraft lets you do something doesn't mean you should. Give and take and all that. But sadly for us tall people there is little we can do - apart from not travel or pay a great deal more for an upgrade. What annoyed me with some of the comments above is the 'screw you' tone of them.

For the record, if there is someone behind me I don't recline. Simple as that.

For the record I can see no comment with reference to "screw you" tone in them. It's just you don't agree with the points that others have highlighted but it's okay because everyone is entitled to a view.

However I must say that I think you qualify as the world's most considerate passenger. I hope I am fortunate enough to sit next to or behind you at some time

I hope I am fortunate enough to sit next to or behind you at some time

I look forward to that pleasure, Hev60

As a 6'2" person that cannot afford to fly anything other than economy I will recline my seat when it suits me, subject to any legal requirements such as take off/taxi/landing and out of courtesy not during meal service. Selfish? Maybe but no more than you insisting I be uncomfortable by not reclining my seat.

PW

Sorry but that is arrogant. The point I was making was not for myself, I am lucky I can afford first or business, but a lot of families can't. Not everyone is a Helicopter pilot. If the leg room seats are all sold out some people are left with no choice but to endure a long flight in considerable discomfort, and those who wish to antagonise such people who are already probably in pain risk developing a taste for hospital food. And as for the safety aspect then let's stop disabled people flying as they definitely will stop people evacuating.

Yawn. Going around in circles now.

PaulS

No, not arrogant as others have pointed out.

Not sure what me being a helicopter pilot has to do with any of this?!

Maybe the people who are looking forward to hospital food shouldn't be flying? Maybe they should be obtaining fitness to fly authorization from the airlines?

So you're not content with having a pop at overweight people you now want to start on the disabled? Yes, they will likely have a problem during an evacuation but I am sure they and the cabin crew are aware of that. No one is saying they or tall people shouldn't fly but that the person that has a problem using their own seat or with someone else using their [own]seat needs to consider if they should make other arrangements whether it be a medical requirement for the airline or paying to upgrade.

Or maybe being tall should be a disability by your standards?

As you are not even speaking for yourself Do you also like make 'points' on behalf of those you believe to be racially/sexually/minorities disadvantaged?

PW

:#

Please - let's drop it .....

:#

Please - let's drop it .....

+1 to that

I am a bit confused now to be honest. Anyway I will look forward to my next flight in 8A and be thankful for it.

[Darren Wheeler]

It's clear the hint to "Play Nice' hasn't been taken so while the Mods discuss, I'm locking this thread before it descends to Ad Hominem.