Air pax tax

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11649140

So what does everyone think, will it mean you flying less or will it not affect you? Or if the company pays will it change how they do business?

Company pays and will swallow it, no one is happy however. Travelling approx 24 times a year to the US now means I / my company is paying £2,800 ish in APD per annum. When I add that to all the other taxes, my throat gulps!

In many ways, the airlines have facilitated this steady increase in APD, and have become the unwary champions of APD. Why do I say this?

1. They are incredibly efficient tax collectors. The cost of collecting this tax, processing it and passing it on appears to be be borne by the airlines. Sticking an extra tenner here or there has become so easy for any government.

2. I doubt Virgin Atlantic's protests about how families may no longer afford a Florida holiday will pull at the heartstrings, much. They state "the average vacation to Florida for a family of four travelling on an economy package will increase by 240 pounds" - do you think this will really make the government think again? With public sector job cuts announced, bankers bonuses back on track, and the spending cuts, who will have sympathy for worldwide holidaymakers?

3. "the average vacation to Florida for a family of four travelling on an economy package will increase by 240 pounds" - will it? Will it really?
Because APD has been slowly increasing over the years, and yet the cost of economy flights remains stubbornly low. Again, the airlines, in hindsight, have done themselves no favours, by time and again masking the impact of these tax increases in low headline fares.

So, same old same old.

Airlines will complain about higher taxes, but will end up subsidising passengers by reducing the fare portion by the same amount... passengers will continue to travel, governments see that the tax has not adversely affected the market and will add another tenner next year to it...

The story is a load of nonsense and as usual gets the facts muddled.

APD only forms a small part of the cost of the ticket. The VS fuel supplement is more than the APD yet no one is jumping up and down about that !

See the figures I calculated in this thread

Even the VS facebook thread uses some dodgy statistics to try and generate some fake outrage. It also exposes a level of ignorance amongst the travelling public about the make of their fares.

There is an article in today's Guardian which suggests flying to e.g. Paris and then onwards to avoid it but it fails to mention the risks - what happens to you with a missed / cancelled connection and the fact that on seperate tickets (which is what it advocates) airlines arn't under any duty to re-book you etc. Nor are the issues / costs re different luggage allowances addressed. Nor does it take into account the costs of getting to Paris compared to the APD 'saved'!

Yes some people may do this but is that really feasable for a family going on their B&S holiday?

Will it stop me travelling? Well I only do 2-3 trips a year so no it won't.

I think your right as the big rises are in premium to Zone 4 areas (Oz etc) in times like these people aren't likely to worry about those flying FC down under.
I suppose that begs the question how much would it rise to to change people's traveling habits?

Again, the airlines, in hindsight, have done themselves no favours, by time and again masking the impact of these tax increases in low headline fares.

Billy I agree! VS does itself no favours by including the fuel surcharge in the 'taxes etc' section rather than the main fare.

If it did that it could say -

This is what WE charge yo fly you, this are the FEES that we pay to the airports etc and THIS is what you actually pay in TAXES to the (boo hiss) government.

There was a chap on the FB thread who complained that he was paying £1k in TAXES on his 2 reward flights to OZ - he assumed it was all tax and ignored the fact that the fuel surcharge was twice the APD.

Wow, so if you had a 50% increase in your PAYE you'd find reasons to argue that it's all OK because you really should have done something different? No, of course you wouldn't and it's not the same.

The point is that Britain is becoming an extremely high tax country, that is going to cause all sorts of problems down the line. In a very unscientific way, with all these taxes rolled up, some people are paying say 60%+ of their income in tax. The same people who by and large create wealth and opportunity for others. Unless the government does something about this, the country is going to suffer.

As for those who regularly save up and take a trip to Florida for their family, my bet is that £240 will hurt them, so yes, I do feel that is not good.

Wow, so if you had a 50% increase in your PAYE you'd find reasons to argue that it's all OK because you really should have done something different? No, of course you wouldn't and it's not the same.

It's not the same so don't understand your comment.

If I had a 50% increase in PAYE, and my employee increased my salary to absorb it, would I be as bothered by the increase? Probably not.

But that's what the airlines have done - air fares have not increased at all over the years, so for most people, APD is something that's just lumped in with all the other airline nickel and diming. Airlines have made APD irrelevent, which is why, fifteen years ago you could get a return flight to New York for £299, and now, it's erm, £299.00 and next week it will be, erm, £299.00

If extra charges put people off, maybe Virgin could remove their credit card fees? Expedia manage without them. (That's the second plug for Expedia from me today. Shheeeesh. I am not getting paid by them, honest!). Maybe Virgin could review their fuel "supplements". Or is it only government charges that put people off?

Whats the betting that IF APD were to be abolished that many of the airlines will simply somehow manage to 'absorb' it into the base fare and total prices for the consumer would not fall at all?

And are we really a high tax country? Its almost imposible to say. Even the esteemed artist Tracy Emin said she was off to France because she 'believed' the tax rates were lower yet when one of the newspapers looked at the figures it turned out she would be worse off tax wise !

Not sure it will put me off flying more, but I am still p*ss*d off about it.

We can talk about airlines adding bits on here or there (such as the fuel surcharge - funnily enough, I have never seen the price of a loaf of bread have a fuel surcharge put on it when I buy it from Sainsbury's), but if we don't like these we can always shop around for another airline.

However, like all other taxes, there is no choice with APD. And to dress it up as a 'green tax' is completely bogus - it is just a revenue generating tax for the government.

Germany is introducing its own version of APD from 1st Jan 2011

article and wiki

Amounts are low at the moment but I can see them rising !

They have gone for 3 zones and are using the distance between Frankfurt to the location of the largest airport in the destination country to determine the zones and not, unlike the UK, the distance to the capital city.

Germany is introducing its own version of APD from 1st Jan 2011

article and wiki

Amounts are low at the moment but I can see them rising !

They have gone for 3 zones and are using the distance between Frankfurt to the location of the largest airport in the destination country to determine the zones and not, unlike the UK, the distance to the capital city.

They are already projected to rise:

The German government intends to raise EUR 1 billion from aviation taxes in 2011, rising to EUR 4 billion in 2014. This latter amount includes the proceeds from the inclusion of air transport in the EU Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS). The government will review the tax rates following the introduction of ETS for aviation

EUR 4 billion is no small sum.

But we will be paying for EU ETS on top of APD!
Going by the German predictions that will add around Euro 135 to our cost for a long-haul.

Did you not notice when they slipped that in 2 yrs ago? ! Few people did!

There's been no change to most of Virgin's promotional fares since the tax change. Ryanair announce a seat sale, reducing fares, Thomas Cook launch a 'beat the taxman' promotion, and BA and bmi show no change in fares.

Once again, the sting of the tax has been removed by the industry, who then wonder why they are such an easy target.

Just to re-open this discussion -

I have only just found out that on Jan 1st this year, Airlines joined the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS). The think tank CIVITAS say it will cost £130 extra for a family of four travelling to the US. The CAA see it as key to helping the EU meet its emissions targets.

The EU claim it will only add about £10 to the cost of a transatlantic ticket. CIVITAS claim it will cost airlines £1bn per year and so costs must be passed down to passengers.

The revenue from ETS will got to the UK Treasury. Interestingly there is no provision to make sure the income is spent on reducing climate impacts.

I have not heard the latest budget news from today, however I am under the impression the government is going ahead with it's plan to hike up Air Passenger Duty (APD). On long haul flights, over 6,000 miles tax will rise from £85 to £92 per person. v(

So yet more taxes to hit our pockets. I am sure this is going to hit our economy and have a knock on effect to the amount of flights booked.

ABTA are apparently recommending to the government that ETS is offset against APD and not as it is at the moment, added. !

I have not heard the latest budget news from today, however I am under the impression the government is going ahead with it's plan to hike up Air Passenger Duty (APD). On long haul flights, over 6,000 miles tax will rise from £85 to £92 per person. v(

The £85 to £92 increase was announced last November for implementation from 1st April 2012.

That £ 92 will go up to £ 94 from 1st April 2013 as per page B20 of this budget document