UEFA MUST act

That was disgusting scenes tonight in Rome.
As much as I am blinkered against Man ure, that was the worst display from a Police force in many years.

UEFA have to act against this type of policing once and for all.

It's particularly poignant almost seven years to the day when we had two fans killed by other so called "fans" and the awful policing of that hell of a match

the press go on about English football hooligans, whilst all over europe this is allowed to happen.

[preiffer]

Simple solution : Ban football.


There you go, problem solved. (And no, I'm NOT joking. It's pathetic.)

[Scrooge]

There have been numerous issues with Roma and their fans/police force over the years, you would of thought they would of taken a long hard look at their operations after UEFA made them play to empty stands.

Originally posted by Scrooge
There have been numerous issues with Roma and their fans/police force over the years, you would of thought they would of taken a long hard look at their operations after UEFA made them play to empty stands.

I am of an age when I remember ALL English teams being banned from Europe ... the time has come to ban a European team (s) after tonights incident.

That incident last night was very shocking viewing indeed.

But the good thing is that the english FA will take action unlike our scottish FA who simply do nothing as Rangers encountered the same thing at Osasuna a few weeks ago.....

Originally posted by preiffer
Simple solution : Ban football.


There you go, problem solved. (And no, I'm NOT joking. It's pathetic.)

That is the most ridiculous thing I have seen anyone say on this board!

I am so angry about what happened. It has nothing to do with the fact that it is "football" - how would you like it if you were simply standing there and a thug dressed in a military uniform whacked you over the head - beacsue thats what happened

I was at this game and the violence meeted out by the Carabinieri was scandalous.

Im going to post the report I have sent to the club and Uefa below - if a mod feels its too long then please edit or delete it.

United v Roma, Stadio Olimpico 4th April 2007

I and a number of my friends chose to take a one day trip from Manchester to go to this match. We have all been to European away games on many occasions and a number of us had been in Lille for the previous round.

We arrived the Leonardo da Vinci Airport at around 1030 and after what can only be described as ÒchaoticÓ organisation from the Italian police whoa wanted to escort our coaches into town we left the airport at 1130. The Flight Options organiser advised us all on the coach to either go to the Villa Borghese and get the locally arranged coaches to the game, go to the ground in a group of 10 plus or use the coach we were on which would leave the Piazza Republica at around 5pm. He said that the local police were concerned with the Roma ÒUltrasÓ but as usual to be careful and not to wander about on our own. I have personally been to many countries and cities in the world and this advice is good wherever you are!!

Arrived into Roma at the aforementioned Piazza Republica at nearly 1pm and walked down to near the Trevi fountain to find some bars for a few beers and a restaurant for a late lunch. Both were found and enjoyed!!

Met a number of Roma fans and we had some good chars with them and the outcome of the game. I have a good friend whoÕs family is from Rome and he said that the Romans were mostly friendly and enjoyed their football Ð just like us!

At 7.00 pm we decided to make our way out to the stadium Ð as we assumed the coaches had now gone we opted to get three taxis Ð this proved impossible so we made our way to the Metro and finally got on a train around 7.45pm. We got off at Lepanto and then walked up the main boulevard towards the stadium. It was surprising Ð but maybe because of the lateness of the hour there were very few people about. We were a group of around 10 so did not feel too concerned, we even chatted to a few Roma supporters on the way who came across as very friendly.

We arrived at the Stadium at around 8.40 and were directed around to the Away supporters turnstiles.

At this point the observations I made did not surprise me but nonetheless I cannot understand why things have to be this way. In some cases I have passed comment as to my opinion, but hopefully what I have said is the Òcommon senseÓ approach?

There was (as at Lille) one gate for Utd supporters to enter the stadium complex.

A search was made but it seemed to be made for appearances sake.

There were three ÒgatesÓ each with two turnstiles. The bar code on the rear of the ticket activated the turnstile. This worked fine Ð but why wasnÕt the fact that the bar code was going to operate the barrier made clear on the ticket itself.

As usual at European grounds the door of entry, row number and seat number mattered not one jot. There have been very few instances in the past years where it does Ð Stade de France, Celtic Park spring to mind, but elsewhere it is a complete waste of time having these details on the ticket. There were no stewards directing fans and consequently when we arrived at the back of the stadium Ð now about 3-4 mins after kick-off there was no obvious way into the seating area as all the egress was blocked with fans.

There were no stewards at the bottom of the steps and none at the top so we picked a set of stairs, managed to get onto the top of the walkway and then saw that there was plenty of space over to the left ( next to the glass barrier separating the fans). We slowly made our way over to this area.

The gangways were all blocked with fans who had been given no direction Ð once again, seat numbers, row numbers, entrance numbers Ð a complete waste if ink on the ticket!!

At this time Ð around 9.00 pm the United fans were pretty much filling the wedge shaped ÒawayÓ section with the exception of about a 10 seat wide section right next to the dividing fence. There were some stewards in orange vests down t the left of the seating area Ð none was actually doing anything and they were smoking eating and watching the game Ð and then there was a group of Carabineiri just below us, clustered in the left side entrance. I made a comment to my friend about why they were in our section as there was no one around for us to ÒriotÓ with!

The game progressed and there was the usual ÒvisualÓ nonsense between the fans who could easily see each other through the glass barrier. But at this point it was pretty much the norm.

Then when Scholes got sent off all hell broke loose.

The Roma fans celebrated as if they had won the tournament and allsorts of items came flying over the fence. I saw bottles, both opened and with the tops on, a camera type bag, a shoe and whilst I could not see them I heard a number of coins landing on the floor. My friend Martin was hit on the head by a coin and had to sit down afterwards as it was a heavy blow.

Of course, and of course its not right, United fans threw things back.

The Carabinieri then launched into the first of what was a number of unprovoked attacks on United fans Ð I can only assume they were targeting people who had thrown items as there was no other reason for why they were involved. United fans were beaten Ð simply beaten with big truncheons. It was brutal and unnecessary. Of course, and this is not right either, some Utd fans fought back. Some tried to calm the situation. I saw one guy try to ask the Carabinieri to calm down and raised his hands to signal stop. All those going near the Carabineiri ( and I refuse to call them police because they are more like a local military force) were beaten Ð no questions, no discussing, just beaten!

It was brutal, barbaric, without reason and totally unjustified.

I guess ÒpeaceÓ was restored, but then Roam scored and it all happened again. This time Roma fans Ð and this is clear from the TV pictures Ð raced to the dividing fence and began goading the Utd fans. Some Utd fans goaded them back. On the Roma side they were allowed to do as much goading as they liked Ð on the United side fans were beaten again, beaten and beaten and beaten Ð it was horrific and my wife cannot even now watch as one particular Carabinieri ÒthugÓ just kept hitting and hitting and hitting a supporter who was prostrate in the ground.

I saw a ÒthugÓ continue to hit someone whilst laughing.

Another chased a fan over about 5 rows of seats before the fan fell and then the Carabinieri beat him in the back with his truncheon.

Luckily half time then came. I say luckily because it meant that the Roma fans stopped acting like idiots at the fence and so calm was restored.

At this point I walked down to the someone who looked like they might have been inn charge and asked where the ÒcommanderÓ or ÒcaptainÓ was Ð my Italian can cope at this level. ÒNON CAPITANOÓ was the response and I was pushed away with a stick Ð no discussion, no talking.

I saw a steward pushing a lad down the stairs and shout ÒcalmÓ at him at which point two stewards ran up the stairs and pushed me back up the stairs shouting Òaway awayÓ. One of these ÒstewardsÓ had his face covered with a scarf, his hat down over his head and was sweating profusely and appeared red with rage. He looked nothing like the stewards I know.

At half time the ÒstewardsÓ all left the area to move into the Roma section. The Carabineiri then lined the barrier between the two sets of fans.

As the second half began a number of ÒwoundedÓ appeared Ð people with bandages over head wounds, a man in a sling a young lad with plasters on his face and hands Ð it was appalling. I was at a football match in a European capital city and it was more like downtown Baghdad!!!

I chatted with a MUFC security man who had been trying to keep the Carabineiri off us and he said that even some of the CES guys had been hit as they tried to intervene. I would Pont out that these guys really did there best.

When Rooney scored we just cheered as we normally do Ð no running at the barrier, no throwing things just pure enjoyment of the moment.

When they scored their second the same routine happened as during the first goal Ð items thrown, running at the fence, fans goaded. However Ð this time the Carabineiri were stood at the fence so now Untied fans bother to run across.

All through the second half Roma fans kept coming to the fence and making gestures. But all through the half the carabinieri just kept looking at us, shields up, batons raised and tear gas guns poised. The Roma stewards did nothing. On one occasion Ð and only a Carabinieri banged on the window to get the stewards to remove a ÒfanÓ Ð they laughed and waited until his friends came over to drag him away Ð it was disgraceful.

There was no further trouble during the game, give or take the odd thrown object from the Roma fans.

About 10 minutes after full time the Carabineiri removed their helmets and put on their berets and marched down the side of the enclosure and down the exit to sarcastic applause from United fans.

We were then Asked to stay in our seats (hahahaha) for around 90n minutes before we would be allowed to leave the stadium.

During this time the ÒrealÓ police came into the area Ð whilst they still had helmets they had taken them off Ð some spoke English Ð they chatted, shared a drink and a cigarette and were like usual policemen. I saw one Captain speak to people in Italian on behalf of fans and there was a certain cordiality.

Nearly 2 hours after the game ended we were ÒreleasedÓ from the stadium.

The coaches were parked around the stadium and it was organised chaos - there was no logic to where they were parked and people were getting on and off coaches unsure of which one to take. This wasnÕt helped by the wall running around the stadium which meant some coaches were one side and some the other. It was just daft, We then sat there for another 45 minutes.

The coaches then left Ð slowly Ð and what should have been a 30 minute ride out to the airport took an hour. Our driver, who spoke english- told us that the police were using a ÒstrangeÓ route to keep us off the usual way to the airport. It was all backroads and windy streets. The driver said that the strategy was to avoid the ÒultrasÓ who would stone the coaches!! At 1am in the morning?? The police escort with us blocked off every car that came near and nearly caused a car to crash into the barrier. It was madness. It felt like leaving a war torn city by the ÒsecretÓ route so that the convoy wasnÕt hit by bazookas!!!

Into the airport and their were Carabinieri everywhere Ð the shops and cafes were all closed and it felt good to climb the steps of the aircraft.

We finally got back into Manchester at 430am!!

It had been a long and traumatic day!! One that had started positively and enjoyably had become a Òbeating festivalÓ for the Italian ÒthugÓ Carabinieri!!

Questions?
How can the Stadio Olimpico be classified as an Òall seaterÓ stadium. I know we have some issues regards standing at games but everyone of the Roma fans we saw was stood Ð no-one would sit in the horrible dirty bucket seats and if there was a crowd surge it would be extremely dangerous!!

Why is there no stewarding to put people at the very least in the ÒzoneÓ where their seat is Ð if not in the actual seat?

Why were the Carabinieri even in the United fans section Ð what purpose were they serving, what were they trying to stop Ð or do? I can understand if there had been a row of proper police down the side of the fence Ð this would have been a sensible precaution to Utd fans charging the fence Ð but then why not have this on the Roma side too Ð and interestingly there were no such problems on the right side of the United enclosure. Was this because the Roma fans on that side were just that Ð ÒfansÓ Unlike the idiots on the left side?

Why is it possible at a UK ground to be able to identify someone who throws something and eject them Ð but at a European ground it is not, There must have been over 300 things thrown that night at least!! O could see CCTV cameras there Ð what were they used for.

Where is the Captain or controller during such incidents?

Why donÕt United have an official to act as liaison with the local enforcement agency Ð the poor guys from CES were simply escorting the club trips Ð they became the ÒunofficialÓ liaison!!

Why was it necessary to stay in the ground Ð including time on the coaches Ð for three hours!!

How many arrests were there?? To the best of my knowledge to date Ð answer NONE!!

If fans misbehave then arrest them. Charge them, fine them, imprison them, ban them.

But donÕt beat them and act as judge, jury and executioner.

Mark Johnson
5th April 2007

[Bazz]

Wow! Quiet day at the office Mark? Serious topic I know and now the Spanish Police have been at it aswell! Link

[preiffer]

Not suggesting it's anything but serious Mark, further to your rather protracted reply.

My point is - you don't see such scenes at ANY other sport. Baseball/Basketball/Superbowl in the US has games with similar (if not bigger) size attendance, and never do you see such scenes of violence.

Of course I saw the footage (as has 99% of the population by now), and do not agree with the actions of the Italian police, BUT it DID start with the fans, UNNECESSARILY.


The direct FAULT of football, as a game? No. Directly LINKED to football, YES.

Paul,
I cannot agree.
I have been to a US football match at the old Houston Astrodome when there was trouble between fans in the section below us. When Boston won the World series, how about the riots that happened after that?
There has been countless number of cases of violence on larger scale at overseas cricket matches, at Rugby league games, how about the famous Oakland A's baseball riot? we have all seen pictures of basketball games erupting intio violence and I don't mean the players either! It is not just the most popular sport in the world that suffers from this malaise, it is only that the press beacause it is the most popluar sport make more of it, especially when it involves UK teams, in other countries it is still a weekly event.

Originally posted by preiffer
Simple solution : Ban football.


There you go, problem solved. (And no, I'm NOT joking. It's pathetic.)

Yeah of course that would solve the problem completely[:?][:?][:?]

From your glib statement it would appear you don't attend football matches regularly so therefore do not understand ANY of the issues surrounding the latest disturbances.

You are quite right though that you don't get any such trouble at US sport fixtures, but they have far more gun related crime and violence on the streets than we do - perhaps the US should adopt your cure all solution - Ban going out in public - problem solved no more gun crime!

Not one to stick up for either Man U or Totten(s)ham I could not see what their fans were doing wrong other than protecting themselves for the most part against over zealous policing. Reports state that one disabled fan was knocked from his wheelchair by the Spanish Police..... Bet he was really a threat to the upkeeping of law and order! - perhaps they should ban wheelchairs as well - problem solved!

I have been attending matches since the mid 70's and although there was a problem in the 70's and 80's with organised violence the problem has all but gone away these days. I can't remember seeing any trouble at a match for well over 10 years and I follow a team who used to have a fearsome reputation. The VAST majority of fans now behave and share banter with each other these days - but that wouldn't make very good press now would it? I can just see the headlines now

West Ham fans in friendly banter outrage!.....hmmmm far easier to focus on the minority issues around the game methinks.

Remember it was one of our wonderful so called newspapers that reported that Hillsborough was caused by hooligans... when in fact it was caused by inept policing.

The same people now claim that it is all seated grounds that have made things safe - UTTER RUBBISH, no-one died at Hillsbourough due to standing up, it was 10ft fencing around the pitch that killed people.

Jon B

Originally posted by preiffer


BUT it DID start with the fans, UNNECESSARILY.

The direct FAULT of football, as a game? No. Directly LINKED to football, YES.

So rather than sort out the problem- which in the UK and many other European countries it has been - the answer is to ban it??

My "protracted" report was not ever going to see the light of day on this web site - it was written at the request of MUFC and because I wanted to send my view of events to Uefa. I only published here because of your statement.

And in addition to what I said there was simply no need for the riot police to be in our section. Ok so the Roma fans got excited and thought throwing a few bottles and coins into our area would be fun - and yes, Utd fans threw them back. In the UK stewards would move to seek out the perpetrators and throw them out - but here, riot police stormed in and CLUBBED people - most of whom were completely innocent?? Is that fair? Does it matter whether this took place at a football match, a march through London or a world peace event in an San Francisco or Vienna?

The reaction of the police at our game and in Sevilla last night was completely unjustified and disproportionate. And once again I ask - after all the "rioting and trouble" where are the arrested fans, which fans have been deported, who has got banning orders looming. answer: NONE

Am I cross about this - bloody right I am[:(!]