Elitism on the forum?

Flyertalk has one as has been said, it was never as friendly as here
and not always tolerant of people asking basic questions.

Though in all honesty this site has got a little elitist on occaision and I have been singed once or twice. Hense a slight nervousness to post as often.

Edited to add I still love the site.

quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Though in all honesty this site has got a little elitist on occaision and I have been singed once or twice. Hense a slight nervousness to post as often.





Given that many of us have been on here for many years (and I am still a newbie), its membership is continually growing and the success of the V-Flyer socials are legendary I would take that as V-Flyer being both a successfull and friendly site [|:)]

I am sure it may not appeal to all tastes (although given the diversity of posters I would find that hard to believe) and that being the case there are other fora out there that may suit their tastes better.

HG

Edited: to reflect post split and that my words are not miscontrude any further.

[Nottingham Nick]

I can see where EGG is coming from, it is something that was discussed this weekend at York.

The ethos of the site is that people express their personal views and feelings. These are not always going to be those of the majority of people.

We have been criticised in the past for being too 'UC centric', and have tried to address this.

The mods will stress that we are a fully inclusive site and welcome all opinions - whether they are from the front, middle or back of the plane.

We encourage strong debate, but won't allow personal attacks on anyone. The answer, if you see an attitude you disagree with - is to challenge it; preferably in a polite, well evidenced, way.

I accept it is sometimes difficult to do this without appearing to be personal. If the line is overstepped, that is when the mods will get involved.

V-Flyer is here to help of other fliers regardless of age, race, creed, religion, sexuality, choice of football team or class of travel.

[;)][:D]

Lets keep the discussions robust but friendly.


Nick

[Neil]

Not wanting to take this thread totally OT, but I can understand where EGG is coming from. 99.9% of the time V-Flyer is a great, friendly site, with a diverse membership. I do still think at times, the site can appear to be a bit clique, and daunting for new or non regular posters, and even at times for more established members. I think the introduction of the off topic forum and the bar chats has helped keep, in the main, the main forums away from this, although at times things do get a little OT.

Just thinking about it a bit more, it probably isn't a bad thing that EGG has mentioned this, as it is obviously something he thinks about before posting, and there may be other members or newbies who feel the same. Also it helps remind us all to be aware of what we put and how we phrase things.

Neil

quote:Originally posted by hackneyguy
quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Though in all honesty this site has got a little elitist on occaision and I have been singed once or twice. Hense a slight nervousness to post as often.



Not sure why you felt the need to go off topic and knock v-flyer and its posters.

Given that many of us have been on here for many years (and I am still a newbie), its membership is continually growing and the success of the V-Flyer socials are legendary I would take that as V-Flyer being both a successfull and friendly site [|:)]

I am sure it may not appeal to all tastes (although given the diversity of posters I would find that hard to believe) and that being the case there are other fora out there that may suit their tastes better.

HG


With respect I am not a new member and have supported the site for a good number of years. Your suggestion that there are other fora out there for me is not inclusive and dare I say it elitist.

I answered the question of the OP and added a side note.

As a foot note my last thread on here you yourself described as silly.
Sadly you have kind of prooved my point.

I won't say anymore so as not to ruin someones thread, perhaps a mod could contact me if they feel it appropriate.

EGG,

You know we love you baby[:D][:X]

Keep posting away

Iain

quote:Originally posted by iforres1
EGG,

You know we love you baby[:D][:X]

Keep posting away

Iain

+1[y]

I wonder if it's worth the mods splitting out the OT posts here to a separate OT thread. I do see where EGG is coming from and I think Neil put it well (GJ would be proud of you .[:)]

EGG know where your coming from[y][y][y][y][y][y]

cheers

Alex

[Darren Wheeler]

Elitisms or cliques occur on most forum, especially where people meet up. That changes the dynamics of the relationship and you can't just turn it off when back on the forum.

Personally I found V-Flyer to be very welcoming and tolerant of asking what can seem to others as, silly questions. Anyone being dismissive of other because of what class they travel in are quickly asked to re-assess their internal compass, as it were. Those who come along to just wind others up and start a flame war or rapidly given a re-education.

I agree with Darren.

On virtual forums one can not really get to know people and we all make assumptions and often take/read posts in not the spirit they may have been intended (guilty here).

I really found meeting V-Flyers helped me there. To be honest a met one or two a while before others and myths that I had about them, and myths they had about me, where just that and dismissed immediately upon meeting face to face. After now spending some time with many V-Flyers in San Fran earlier this year I fell honoured to call them my friends and have since gained confidence on my posting on here too - a double whamy !

Regards,

HG

This is a rather interesting topic and I can understand exactly where EGG is coming from.

When I originally joined this site back in 2004 I was one of the much younger members, who mainly joined to talk about planes and the like. I had no interest in the complexities of fare buckets, AMEX cards or indeed the UC menu. However the great thing about this site is the broad range of people. You can go from reading a thread about D checks to a thread on some of the grandest hotels out there.

As with all organisations/societies in life, one does end up with groups of more dominant members. Certainly on here, as others have eluded to, the site can seem very UC centric. This can be an advantage and a disadvantage of this great community. In the past I have felt to an extent, that the views of those who have not traveled in UC are not valued as much, especially when trying to put the other sides pov across.

[Decker]

Nick has explained the dilemma facing the mods incredibly well. Some of our members are disparaging of people who fly coach, others of those who fly in the premium cabins and whilst we feel collectively that this is an infantile attitude to take - as is characterising all users of specific lounges in specific ways - we are prepared to allow people to show themselves up if that's what they want to do. We will only step in when individuals are attacked. We'd encourage all members to respond politely but firmly to obviously stupid remarks in the hope that errant posters will recognise the error of their ways.

Elitist.

Well my initial perception was yes, primarily because of the significant proportion of trip reports coming from the posh seats. I do not know how you can change that perception.

I have found the reality within the forums quite different.

It is always difficult to join an establshed forum. There are cliques, of course. Even in cyberspace some people get on better with some people than they do with others. Add to that the socials where people meet and invariably stronger bonds develop. Groups form, it is the way of life.

Unfortunately in cyberspace you have no real understanding of others sensitivities. You cannot look people in the eyes and think 'oops, shouldn't have said that'. Some people are insensitive, some are ultra sensitive, some are aggressive, some aren't, one's man humour is another's insult etc etc. I guess that is where the mods come in, to keep such clashes under firm management.

AS a newbie, my own experience of the site has been fine. I have found people friendly and helpful and subjects interesting and informative as well as fun. And I enjoy some of the bar chat banter.

I have even told Mrs HWVlover that she is going to Brussels in January where she and I will take on the role of surrogate Mummy and Daddy to you young people. I haven't mentioned the anorak yet however, is it really compulsory?

Thanks,
David

Could I just say thanks for taking my comment seriously I was quite tentative about pressing the post button.

I don't have a problem with cabin class of travelers I was more referring to a tendancy sometimes for put downs where they are not required. Sometimes a question simply requires an answer to be helpful and not a pointed comment about the question itself or an opinion of the subject of the question at all.

I do understand its easy to misinterpret a member as I know some of my tongue in cheek trip reports had some people thinking I was deadly serious and then formed opinions about me which carried on.

York is only 20 mins from my house and initially I wanted to go but given a couple of responses to my last few posts I decided to give it a miss.

There is no such thing as a silly question if the person asking it is genuinely trusting site members for help.

I would much like to return to posting much and often as I would not have paid my subs to 2014.

My apologies to anyone I may have upset with my comment earlier but at the same time the very fact after several years of happy membership ,and it being just recently I have felt this way must mean something changed somewhere.

There are a lot of Upper threads which one would expect given this is more a fan club site for VA of which I am one and the natural progression of a virgin fan is probably back to front. Though newbies asking questions that may make some people yawn and answer in a similar fashion can appear sometimes as a put down or sneer. I have commended people to this site many times.

I am babbling now so will shut up.

[Neil]

As I said earlier, I think it is a good thing to have threads like this every now and again. I know this has become a split thread, but I just wanted to add to what I put above, that whilst I do think the site, at times, can be a little unwelcoming and unnerving, I don't think it is elitist at all. The mods and regular posters are always more than willing to help anyone, with any travel question, regardless of class of travel, or who/what that person is.

My very first thread on here was to ask about if I should upgrade one way from Y to PE. Since then, we have been fortunate that we are able to travel UC and stay in some very nice hotels, and I don't shy away from saying, that has happened because of the fantastic tips, info and help from many members on here, I have gained so much knowledge that has totally changed how we holiday now.

I think the key is to embrace what the site is, what it offers and to participate in it. The more you join in the more you will get from it.

Since joining the site I have undoubtedly regularly witnessed what I perceive to be elitism displayed by some members. Does it bother me? Actually not one iota. On a site such as V-flyer with people from all walks of life contributing, it will be the very nature of the beast.

Personally I revel and take great gratification in the fact that despite the Etonian and Oxbridge educations of some, my command of the English language is far superior to that displayed by many of the 'toffs'. Maybe I have joined the ranks and am guilty of language elitism ?

[:w]

Regards
Bryan

[HighFlyer]

quote:Could I just say thanks for taking my comment seriously I was quite tentative about pressing the post button.

I'm so glad you posted, EGG. I sincerely hope that V-Flyer is never a place where a member (especially a long contributing member such as yourself) ever feels that they can't be honest and upfront about an issue they have experienced with the site. Whether its a healthy debate in a thread or a PM to a mod, I hope all members feel comfortable raising any issues.

That said, as Deckers post earlier stated quite well, the mod team will generally let members 'get on with it' unless a member is personally attacking another. We all have different opinions and the right to express them so long as we do it in a polite and respectful manner.

V-Flyer has probably the best community spirit I have encountered on the internet, and I hope it stays that way [y]

Thanks,
Sarah

quote:Originally posted by HighFlyer
[quote]
V-Flyer has probably the best community spirit I have encountered on the internet, and I hope it stays that way [y]


Largely through the gentle good graces of Yourself and His Grace, ma'am.

In response to this overall thread, my feeling is that there's a whiff of passive victimisation in it, and if someone has offended one to the degree they wish not to interact with members socially, then one might find quicker resolution by directly addressing the offensive individual via private message instead of posting vague insinuations and such.

You seem like a stand-up fellow, EGG. I also seem to recall you were once reluctant to fight for your rights around a ticket compensation issue and we all begged and pushed you to do so. I'm begging and pushing again -- to anyone in this position -- if someone has offended you on here, tell them directly instead of coming out into the fora with your tail betwixt your legs.

Good luck and if you need me to pop a cap in someone's arse, let me know.

GJ

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by HighFlyer
[quote]
V-Flyer has probably the best community spirit I have encountered on the internet, and I hope it stays that way [y]


Largely through the gentle good graces of Yourself and His Grace, ma'am.

In response to this overall thread, my feeling is that there's a whiff of passive victimisation in it, and if someone has offended one to the degree they wish not to interact with members socially, then one might find quicker resolution by directly addressing the offensive individual via private message instead of posting vague insinuations and such.

You seem like a stand-up fellow, EGG. I also seem to recall you were once reluctant to fight for your rights around a ticket compensation issue and we all begged and pushed you to do so. I'm begging and pushing again -- to anyone in this position -- if someone has offended you on here, tell them directly instead of coming out into the fora with your tail betwixt your legs.

Good luck and if you need me to pop a cap in someone's arse, let me know.

GJ


I did try to resolve it Sir but to no avail and thanks to some new information that has made it clear where it was coming from unbeknowest to me previously I actually feel able to ignore it in future as I did in another place where it was happening, and my post was not a vague insinuation but a description of how I felt and it would appear how others do also, if my vague insinuation as you describe has resonated or helped others who might have not wished to feel they had there tail between their legs then good.

Your wit has always amused and enthralled me throughout my membership
and I hope it will continue to do so. Though the passive victimisation bit could be construed as unfriendly!

You got a thumbs up for your post I see. Very good.

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
Good luck and if you need me to pop a cap in someone's arse, let me know.


Shouldn't that be 'pop a cap in someone's ass' rather than 'pop a cap in someone's arse'? Getting a tad Guy Ritchie there?

Anyhow, back to the OP. Despite being a relatively infrequent VS flyer - and then, more often than not, in the cheap seats at the back with the rowdy kids - I enjoy my time here. I get to travel vicariously and have yet, I think, to see the terms 'we road warriors' deployed in a TR so [y]. Occasionally there are posts that tend to be elitist but I'm comfortable enough in this baggy skin to either employ the 24 hour rule or to stand up for myself when needed. And on occasion you get a PM or a bar chat message that warms the cockles of your heart.

EGG - keep posting and Noli nothi permittere te terere.

Paul

Interesting thread, and one I'm only tentatively dipping my own toe into out of respect for a long standing member. You're a good egg, EGG ( I follow some of your posts on the Dibb as well - not that I'm stalking you, you understand [:I]) and you shouldn't have to feel the way you do about this 'ere forum after your years of service, many fascinating posts and some rip-roaring TRs.

I'm not sure if the problem is 'elitism' as such. I just think that some peoples' comments aren't always - shall we say - thought through sufficiently, and that in itself can be rather off-putting. It happens all too frequently on many other forums, where the off-hand, often bullying attitude of certain contributors can dissuade some folk from posting. If that's starting to happen on V-Flyer - as, sadly, appears to be the case - then it's a situation that really ought to be addressed.

EGG, I do agree with you, I thought I'd posted something similar myself recently but I can't find it now. Anyway, I've enjoyed your TR's, thankfully someone made a comment underneath one of them so I took it in the manner it was intended otherwise I would've thought something else [:0]

Unfortunately that's the problem with the written word. It often gets misinterpreted, using smilies etc can go someway to helping that situation but it can also inflame it too, I'm no angel so I'm not preaching [:#]

Keep posting anyway [:)][y]

quote:Originally posted by sixdownkeepsafedepth
despite the Etonian and Oxbridge educations of some, my command of the English language is far superior to that displayed by many of the 'toffs'.


The bloody period goes inside the quotation marks. [:p]

GJ

EGG, do post on. It's unfortunate you feel the way you do, even if understandable. This is the only forum I come back to. It's got smart people; it's got funny people; I actually like interacting with the people who are here. Even as a part-timer, and a remote one at that. Meeting people in person will always make a huge difference. For me that's just difficult. I still like this space as one which is informative and entertaining for so many different things, not just how to get an upgrade.

Possible you'll feel slighted or offended, or amazed that a comment you made in jest or good faith was taken the wrong way? Absolutely. Agree with DW, way of the written word. There's legions of academics make a living figuring out what people mean when they write stuff. For good reason - it's hard! One word - 'no' - can seem extremely harsh. Yet, applying a principle of charity, what are the chances the person saying 'no' actually means any ill will to you? They may not want to be your best friend, but dismiss you? I don't know. Still doesn't feel that good to a lot of folk, I'm sure.

I don't know that I'd use the term 'elitism' for what happens here. To me, you'd have to assume that someone not only takes great enjoyment in partaking of things on a regular basis which most of us cannot contemplate from afar (going well beyond the occasional UC flight), perhaps going as far as rubbing one's face in it; you'd have to believe that they also judge you, and clearly think less of you, for not being in the same position, whether by choice or circumstance.

Even if you have found plenty of the former behavior (I don't recall specifics involving you, but I'm sure there were some), I don't know that it rises to the level of being broadly judgmental. I'm happy to think that, when stuff happens, folks are basically just disagreeing with me - not thinking I'm a worthless person. This just feels less of a self-selecting and 'oppressing' forum than FT, allowing for differences in personality. The mods do a good job of rooting out attacking behavior, and most folks seem to be in agreement that they aren't looking for much more in terms of behavioral and content censorship. I do hope you will be able to convince yourself that it's still worth your while to voice your opinions here - it really seems to be worth it to a lot of other folks.