[quote]Can I just say that crew are allowed to fly on 4 types of A/C all VS crew B747-400 A340-300 A430-600 so for us to get the B777 it means spliting crew and have crew based on not all A/C that we fly. It would take a while to do that and is also costly. B777 will not happen for VS. With the A380 coming thats all 4 licences taken up.
Sorry VITB, but i thought you actually had a proffesional input to this be it either as an Engineer or a Pilot. Either way the above isn't true.
The Pilots can't be current on both the B744 and the A340, they could hold the rating (as many do) but would only fly one type, & could cross from fleet to fleet on promotion. The B777 & the B744 are not classed as a common rating (unlike A330/A340). Airbus originaly aimed the A380 to be a common rating with A330/340, not sure of this is true. Some of the crew might also have the A320 rating from Virgin (Athens route) & Virgin Sun days.
The Engineers again are different & don't have the same restrictions. At one stage Engineers had the approval to certify maintenance on the whole VS fleet (A320/21, A343, A346, B742 (with both the RR & PW engines & B744). Engineers may also be licensed (and VS hold the appropriate EASA 145 approval) to maintain aircraft not operated by VS (eg A330 for Jet Airways).
So to get back to the original discussion, VS has plenty of options open & may choose different fleets for different destinations (CX as an example operate A330, A343, A346, B777 & B744). The A330 makes the most sense in some ways, though the B773 is ideal for LGW. Only time will tell, unless you are a top bean counter at VS or an exec with GECAS or ILFC!!!!
Sorry VITB, but i thought you actually had a proffesional input to this be it either as an Engineer or a Pilot. Either way the above isn't true.
The Pilots can't be current on both the B744 and the A340, they could hold the rating (as many do) but would only fly one type, & could cross from fleet to fleet on promotion. The B777 & the B744 are not classed as a common rating (unlike A330/A340). Airbus originaly aimed the A380 to be a common rating with A330/340, not sure of this is true. Some of the crew might also have the A320 rating from Virgin (Athens route) & Virgin Sun days.
The Engineers again are different & don't have the same restrictions. At one stage Engineers had the approval to certify maintenance on the whole VS fleet (A320/21, A343, A346, B742 (with both the RR & PW engines & B744). Engineers may also be licensed (and VS hold the appropriate EASA 145 approval) to maintain aircraft not operated by VS (eg A330 for Jet Airways).
So to get back to the original discussion, VS has plenty of options open & may choose different fleets for different destinations (CX as an example operate A330, A343, A346, B777 & B744). The A330 makes the most sense in some ways, though the B773 is ideal for LGW. Only time will tell, unless you are a top bean counter at VS or an exec with GECAS or ILFC!!!!
When I say crew I am talking about CABIN CREW. When I talk about Pilots if you look in my other post I say FLIGHT CREW.
I am not a Pilot or an Engineer I am a Cabin Service Supervisor.
Denzil I do know what I am talking about!
I am not a Pilot or an Engineer I am a Cabin Service Supervisor.
Denzil I do know what I am talking about!
Sorry VITB, but that's also rubbish, since when did CC have a license? Previously VS did look at "fleeting"" CC & again this could happen IF they go for a more varied fleet. IÕm sure as a CSS you have lots of experience doing what you do, but please donÕt profess to know more than others who do what they do.
I can 100% guarantee you that the training cost of CC is small potato in comparison to the training costs for Pilots & Engineers. As an example whatÕs the CC conversion course from A343 to A346?? 3 days & an aircraft visit ring any bells?? For Engineers try 3 weeks plus simulator for engine ground runs & then work experience for the UK CAA & VS QA & possibly an oral board with VS QA!! Pilots didn't have as much to do as the A346 was designed to follow the same flight characteristics, but it still involved both theory & check flights.
The A330 offers a lot to VS as conversion training for Engineers/Pilots would be minimal, with the exception of the engine they already have over 15 years experience with the airframe, parts commonality with A343, the list goes on. The major negative point would be its future with the A350 on the (distant) horizon.
The B777 is not as simple to quantify for VS, it would be better suited as a replacement to B744s than a supplement. The airlines who buy/lease them tend to hold onto them & I donÕt think youÕll find any parked up. The new B777-200LR & B777-300ER are looking like being a force to be reckoned with. Reliability is good & the fuel burn (as Airbus admits) is better than the comparative A340. The real problem must be getting delivery slots, BA are rumoured to have booked 10 slots.
I can 100% guarantee you that the training cost of CC is small potato in comparison to the training costs for Pilots & Engineers. As an example whatÕs the CC conversion course from A343 to A346?? 3 days & an aircraft visit ring any bells?? For Engineers try 3 weeks plus simulator for engine ground runs & then work experience for the UK CAA & VS QA & possibly an oral board with VS QA!! Pilots didn't have as much to do as the A346 was designed to follow the same flight characteristics, but it still involved both theory & check flights.
The A330 offers a lot to VS as conversion training for Engineers/Pilots would be minimal, with the exception of the engine they already have over 15 years experience with the airframe, parts commonality with A343, the list goes on. The major negative point would be its future with the A350 on the (distant) horizon.
The B777 is not as simple to quantify for VS, it would be better suited as a replacement to B744s than a supplement. The airlines who buy/lease them tend to hold onto them & I donÕt think youÕll find any parked up. The new B777-200LR & B777-300ER are looking like being a force to be reckoned with. Reliability is good & the fuel burn (as Airbus admits) is better than the comparative A340. The real problem must be getting delivery slots, BA are rumoured to have booked 10 slots.
Ermm if we're going to have a constructive discussion here gentlemen can we please qualify our objections? Denzil posted a clear explanation as to why he believed the cost of training cabin crew was less than that of engineers or flight deck. If you believe this not to be true please at least explain what aspect of the OP you disagree with.
Originally posted by Deckeroops i think i read denzils post in the wrong way sorry[:I]
Ermm if we're going to have a constructive discussion here gentlemen can we please qualify our objections? Denzil posted a clear explanation as to why he believed the cost of training cabin crew was less than that of engineers or flight deck. If you believe this not to be true please at least explain what aspect of the OP you disagree with.
A330 as an interim until A350?????
Hi Denzil
Sounds very plausible. Would use less fuel than the A340s. Could you see the 200 or 300 series coming to VS?
Presumably they would convert some of the A346 options to the A330/350 order if it happened. When is the A350 likely to be flying?? Presumably VS won't want to be a launch customer again.
I could imagine the A330 replacing the A343 in a few years. Would have minimal learning-curve for flight-crew and engineering. Also they could be used to DXB, BOM, etc. until ETOPS granted. They could then also be used to open up new "thin" routes from LGW/MAN which won't justify a 744. MAN to Vegas perhaps?? MAN to anywhere else in USA?
The A350 was due to enter service in around 2010 but due to a re-think of the design this has/may be pushed back to 2012 or later.
The A330s are pretty much the same as the A343s in terms of size so the A343s could also be used for thin routes. If they were switched to LGW this would benefit everyone as oddyssey is better than nova (??) and at LHR, your chances of getting oddyssey would be cut down.
However, as things have been going, LHR looks increasingly set for all-airbus.
VS.
I could imagine the A330 replacing the A343 in a few years. Would have minimal learning-curve for flight-crew and engineering. Also they could be used to DXB, BOM, etc. until ETOPS granted. They could then also be used to open up new "thin" routes from LGW/MAN which won't justify a 744. MAN to Vegas perhaps?? MAN to anywhere else in USA?
The A330s are pretty much the same as the A343s in terms of size so the A343s could also be used for thin routes. If they were switched to LGW this would benefit everyone as oddyssey is better than nova (??) and at LHR, your chances of getting oddyssey would be cut down.
However, as things have been going, LHR looks increasingly set for all-airbus.
VS.
Apparently an announcement on new aircraft is due out soon. Might be a cunning move to B777 whilst the market for used B744 is strong. A long queue forming at TAECO in China for the B744BCF & the CF6 powered VS aircraft would be snapped up.
{Edited by Decker to remove ad hominem}
{Edited by Decker to remove ad hominem}
Originally posted by VS045RAZR = CHAV
6682 = NOT CHAV
[y][:I]
VS.
RAZR + GUCCI Holder = EASYGOINGEEZER[}:)]
With regard to aircraft types that VS CC can operate on, the A343 and A346 is classed as 1 aircraft type, if we do not fly on the A346 for say 9 months we remain in check on it as long as we have flown on the A343. Therefore we could in theory operate B744, A343/346, A380 and B777.
{Edited by Decker to remove cross reference to previous ad hominem}
{Edited by Decker to remove cross reference to previous ad hominem}
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by VS045
quote:
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RAZR = CHAV
6682 = NOT CHAV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAZR + GUCCI Holder = EASYGOINGEEZER
[:I]
VS.
Originally posted by Denzil
Whats the problem????
We just got rid of the 'respect rating'. [:w]
Sorry
Nick
Originally posted by Denzil
Whats the problem????
The respected users list has been discontinued as of today.
Well at least you knew he respected you
Originally posted by Golfman
'ETOPS'
Engines Turning Or Passengers Swimming
I like it ....! perhaps in all this talk of A380 and talk of aircraft, customers and crew all have mixed opinions on what aircraft they like and aircraft they will go out their way to avoid.
generally speaking I like the A343 with the new config as I feel UC customers get a better service to that on a 346, however I know other crew that prefer the 346 over its older model.
At the end of the day the airline will need new aircraft and they need to consider running costs - fuel/crew/training etc
I dont think that VS really want the 380 but have no choice now, They have dropped the options which if they were confident surely they would have kept them?
I guess the new Boeing 747-600 will be considered. but who knows?
personally I just hope if it sticks to The SCAREbus 600s they listen to customer and crew feedback on cabin layout design.
Has anyone noticed how narrow the aisles are in Y now with the new seats?
Has anyone noticed how narrow the aisles are in Y now with the new seats?
That could mean the seats are wider, isn't that a good thing?
Not that I'd ever know [:p]
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
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