*NEW*Selling of Extra Legroom seats LGW/ MAN Fleet

Errrm call me old fashioned but does not 'jiggling seats around a bit', without taking any seats out,actually mean that somewhere on the aircraft other seats are losing legroom?

Regards
Bryan

[Neil]

Originally posted by sixdownkeepsafedepth
Errrm call me old fashioned but does not 'jiggling seats around a bit', without taking any seats out,actually mean that somewhere on the aircraft other seats are losing legroom?

I don't think that point has ever been in doubt has it? As mentioned by the OP in the very first post in this thread the a/c currently has varying seat pitches in the Y cabin so they are going to uniform the rest of the cabin to create room for the new extra legroom seats.

So now rather then you not knowing if you have an extra inch or two (it is not published the individual pitch for each seat), VS quite cleverly will make extra cash and the pax in these seats will know they are gaining and were obviously happy to pay for the perk.

Neil

Fair comment Neil. In my haste to post it seems that I neglected to inwardly digest the contents of the OP thoroughly. I will put it down to senility creeping in!

Regards
Bryan

Originally posted by clarkeysntfc
BA only do this for full-fare customers, FIRST passengers and Golds I believe. The rest are left to OLCI or at the airport.

Silvers can preselect seats too - it's a perk I didn't even know I had until I inadvertently didn't have my FF card details on a booking a few weeks ago.

H

Originally posted by Bill S
But at least we must be happy that VS are trying to improve service and choice!
It's not all cuts! 10/10 for that!

Oh come on [;)] it's all about dough, nothing to do with service or choice.

A controversial view for you...but it is still my view.

This is not about Virgin allowing greater choice for passengers, it is about maximising profit, I suppose in difficult times.

I don't think that your stereotypical economy passenger will think this is a good idea. Thats the same stereotypical passenger that fills two+ 747's to Orlando a day. In a way you are now getting less as they take away any extra room, unless you pay more... I can't see this being good PR for VS...if you want to pay more surely you fly PE?

I find this surprising as I thought the next move for the LGW/MAN fleet would be to equalise seat pitch with the LHR fleet (as well as Vport etc), and of course the increasingly competitive charter airlines. I can't seem them doing this on the LHR fleet, so is this more squeezing of VS's poor relation?

Steve

Surely its a win - win situation.
Yes VS get a bit more money.
But also pax get the opportunity for larger seats.

The only possible loss is a few people that did not get a free extra sized seat - and probably did not realise it anyway!

If people show that they want that larger space - by paying for it - then VS have the opportunity to increase availability - yes by losing some seats (it does not have to be a whole row - just 3 seats would give 30 larger seats!) but if the larger seats sell - why not!

Extra choice for us pax - and no loss to VS - in fact they gain a little - same money from fewer pax (lower capacity)
A win-win situation!
What is wrong with VS maximising profit? Provided it is no loss to our service.

The proof will come if they sell the seats - or not!

[Neil]

Originally posted by slinky09
Oh come on [;)] it's all about dough, nothing to do with service or choice.

Of course it is. After all that's what VS are here to do, make money. They have seen a potential in the market for pax wanting, and being prepared to pay for, extra leg room in Y.

I am now looking forward to the new marketing campaign along the lines of:

'our brilliant Economy cabin with seat pitch of up to 34' '

with a tiny * and explanation that the biggest seats are not free hidden away in the bottom in size 2 font [:D]

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by Bill S
The proof will come if they sell the seats - or not!

I bet they will be well over subscribed. A case of check-in early to avoid disappointment.

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
I wonder if there was the same fuss when VS announced that exit row seats in Y were to be sold for £75?

Makes a change for the fuss to be about Y rather than the lack of nuts on the side in the UCS bar. [;)][:D]

Originally posted by steveb
A controversial view for you...but it is still my view.

This is not about Virgin allowing greater choice for passengers, it is about maximising profit, I suppose in difficult times.

Of course it is about VS making money. Its a company not a charity [;)].

I don't think that your stereotypical economy passenger will think this is a good idea. Thats the same stereotypical passenger that fills two+ 747's to Orlando a day.

I think you have missed the point. MCO is not full every single day, far from it. I and many others on here have flown with less than 50 people on board. We often see the 27 or the 15 being canceled to combine it with the other.

In a way you are now getting less as they take away any extra room, unless you pay more... I can't see this being good PR for VS...if you want to pay more surely you fly PE?

Not all people can afford PE. This is a good alternative and is really no different to a whole host of major carriers around the world. Sure it will be tough for some to stomach to start with but like all things once the change happens in about 6 months people will just accept it. If not there are many other carriers.

I find this surprising as I thought the next move for the LGW/MAN fleet would be to equalise seat pitch with the LHR fleet (as well as Vport etc), and of course the increasingly competitive charter airlines. I can't seem them doing this on the LHR fleet, so is this more squeezing of VS's poor relation?

Lets not start this into the usual LHR v LGW debate. The V:Port refit won't happen at LGW because of the current economic climate. Needless expediture by all major carriers around the world is being cut at the moment. Even EK, the ultimate airline, is cutting costs and has delayed the launch of its new routes to LAX and SFO.

Y class is standardised across the VS fleet. IIRC there is no difference between seat pitch ex LHR or LGW, they are all between 30-32 inches.

The reason for not doing it on the LHR fleet is that there is no demand for this. VS have probably seen lots of people rocking up to LGW being dissapointed they cant get an exit seat so thus have decided to do this and earn a bit of extra cash.

Its also worth noting that sites like this, the dibb, seatguru etc have probably drawn to VS attention the lengths some go to to secure these larger seats.

To those who believe that VS should contact everyone. I assume you are willing then to go down to THe Office at LGW and start emailing/ringing every single person booked ex LGW over the next 6 months. By my calculation its something like 3,200 people a day.

To those who believe that VS should contact everyone. I assume you are willing then to go down to THe Office at LGW and start emailing/ringing every single person booked ex LGW over the next 6 months. By my calculation its something like 3,200 people a day.

Not every single person just those effected by the reallocation of seat requests. Someone had to reallocate the seats so how much extra effort would it have taken to add an address to a generic email distribution list? How important is repeat business to VS, or any airline for that matter - especially in the current economic climate?

Sorry to be blunt here, but anyone who thinks that any airline, not just Virgin, would go out of their way to contact customers (this probably even includes Golds) just to let them know that the seat they REQUESTED has been changed, must be living on a different planet. It's just not going to happen folks.

In fact all this talk about the 'current economic climate' probably makes it even less likely that they would do so, because it's more important to commit resources to more worthwhile (and profitable!) causes.

Good customer service and repeat business don't increase turnover and profit?

Originally posted by listerrose
Not every single person just those effected by the reallocation of seat requests. Someone had to reallocate the seats so how much extra effort would it have taken to add an address to a generic email distribution list? How important is repeat business to VS, or any airline for that matter - especially in the current economic climate?

And what would you propose to do with all those that have not provided an email address. People on VS flights are not only booked through VH and VS. It is not as simple as hears a list of passengers with emails now contact them. The Virgin Group is known for doing this (eg: VX with its dark plane) when its that easy.

I would also imagine that the relocation of the seats has been done by computer rather than manually.

My mother worked for a tour operator that instead of sending one coach to a resort pick up would send two and have only 5 people on the second coach. Sure it was great customer service as the 5 didnt have to wait for the coach to go to the airport and back again but the company went bankrupt very quickly.

I am the first to slate VS when it does not do a very good job but I think in this case it has done all it can be reasonably expected to do. By offering seat requests they are going above and beyond what nearly every other carrier ex LGW is offering. I and many others on here are well aware that its a request and thus check my booking on a regular basis.

Lets not forget that this has all come about because VS has listened to/seen an increase in demand for the Y bulkhead seats and decided to do something about it. They are trying to offer a service that is to the benefit of customers.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by listerrose
Good customer service and repeat business don't increase turnover and profit?

Off course it does, otherwise companies would not go to the expense of trying to hammer it into their staff.

However as posted above the chances of an airline ever contacting it's pax to let them know a seat request has changed is next to zero.

Originally posted by clarkeysntfc
Sorry to be blunt here, but anyone who thinks that any airline, not just Virgin, would go out of their way to contact customers (this probably even includes Golds) just to let them know that the seat they REQUESTED has been changed, must be living on a different planet.

Interesting point, but not sure I totally agree as I am not sure they would have to go 'out of their way'.

I am assuming the seat realloction is done automatically?

If so, if they haven't got a programmer that can do some sort of 'look up' on these changes that looks at the booking, sees a contact email address, and then dumps the info into a generic email then they need to sack their IT department and start again. Some sort of program should take about half an hour to produce.

Once the query is built (with the email template) it then can be run as and when at the touch of a button.

Or are they doing this with quill and ledger?

Will this get hold of everyone? no. But it may go some way to calming people's view of having seats changed (yes, we all know it isn't guaranteed etc, but it is all to to with expectation management).

Spiceke, I agree that to do this would not be too complex. However to only contact some people would surely make the situation worse as forums such as this and the dibb would highlight the inconsistencies?

Also, with crude oil today topping $146 and aviation fuel $170, I think VS has got alot more on its plate than seat requests!

To contact some people and not all would only have made the situation worse, for example, I was travelling UC last December and both flights were cancelled on day of departure - I had previously checked in online and no attempt had been made to contact me, despite Virgin (Atlantic) holding both my home and mobile numbers (Virgin have confirmed this was an 'error'), but my travelling companion, in PE, was contacted.

Inconsistencies can and do happen but I think in the case of the 'moving' seats it was better not to even attempt to make contact.

I think it works well charging for the exit rows or extra leg room, so many times onboard I hear people say we 'booked extra legroom/ exit seats' then when I ask did they pay and they say 'no' then your problem is solved.

Althought I do think that really really tall people should be allocated them free of charge!

With ref to the people that had pre booked seats and then had them changed with no notification -

Virgin must have made this descision about charging for extra legroom seats a while back, could they not have put a ticker or banner on their website stating the changes?

I understand that it would be impossible to email or contact all those who had already booked, but I dont think it would have been to difficult to put up a notice letting everyone know?

I'm sure most folks that have booked a flight with Virgin wether it be directly, with VH or expedia check in on the Virgin website from time to time and could have been notified that way?

Does it mean that these seats will only be on sale on the day? If they were available for twilight could there not be a problem if they change the aircraft. Also they could still have a problem with people who check in early and the ac are changed.

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by ade99
Does it mean that these seats will only be on sale on the day? If they were available for twilight could there not be a problem if they change the aircraft. Also they could still have a problem with people who check in early and the ac are changed.

But that can happen with any aircraft at any time. If you have that and you are unable to have one of the seats, you'll get a refund. Nothing is guaranteed in air travel.

What is the difference between LGW Config 2 and 3?

[Neil]

Originally posted by barnstaple
What is the difference between LGW Config 2 and 3?

Not much really. The main (only) difference is the small Y cabin behind the downstairs PE cabin. Only 2 rows on 1 config, 4 rows on the other.

Neil

Some sort of program should take about half an hour to produce.

May be easy to code but, the overall cost of implemetation would not be insiginificant.

Initial analysis, cost benefit analysis, getting stakeholder agreement on format etc. sign off for funds, just for starters would burn cash.

Next Systems analysis - how will it fit in to existing systems, design, coding (the quick bit), testing, regression testing (to make sure you haven't screwed up existing systems). User acceptance testing, implementation and post implementation review (to identify if benefits achieved)......

Not to mention, meetings, training, documentation

Believe me. one off 'simple' changes ain't cheap.