quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
From what I have heard the LGW 744 fleet are gone by the end of next year, meaning that they are not on a 5 year lease, as with a car the lease can be for different amounts of time. Does anyone have any solid info as to when the leases are up?
With a more flexible fleet, I could see the A333s working LGW routes when a 747 is overkill. But to lose the whole 747 LGW fleet in one swoop with no large plane to replace them seems to me unlikely. 4 x 747 with 424+ pax compared to an A333 with what 300 pax x 4 daily to MCO in summer - are things going to get that bad? The economics when a 747 is full should surely still beat a A333 especially given amortization of costs?
Nope, I'm not convinced the 747s are going next year, just as economies should be climbing again without a similarly sized replacement.
Would it be viable to put the A333s on some of the thinner LHR routes and send the older A346s to replace the LGW fleet? I feel that VA treat LGW as a budget operation and I personally enjoy the small touches such as V:PORT (Sounds silly but keeps me amused!)... what does everyone think the probability of the LGW fleet being replaced any time soon is?
quote:Originally posted by Denzil
Unless the facts come from the leasing company or VS Fleet Planning, it's all rumour....
[ii] but still a rumor, honestly there are times that I think VS make fleet choices without thinking long term.
I have to agree Slinky, that's why I saw the 333's going over to LHR to do the NYC/IAD runs and have the 346's starting to move over to LGW.
However another problem with that, I have been informed that the 346's will not fit in some of the LGW gates, i'm sure with planning this could be worked around and I also thought that each gate had a standard spacing......
EDIT: The length being th problem not the width.
Unless the facts come from the leasing company or VS Fleet Planning, it's all rumour....
[ii] but still a rumor, honestly there are times that I think VS make fleet choices without thinking long term.
I have to agree Slinky, that's why I saw the 333's going over to LHR to do the NYC/IAD runs and have the 346's starting to move over to LGW.
However another problem with that, I have been informed that the 346's will not fit in some of the LGW gates, i'm sure with planning this could be worked around and I also thought that each gate had a standard spacing......
EDIT: The length being th problem not the width.
The NYC yields are in the toilet, the 333 is the perfect aircraft for that route, so replacing the 346's with the 333's will help raise the yiled, lower the cost so making more money.
What to do with the 346's.... Move them over to LGW, replace the 'leased' 744's with them, change the config to have a higher number of Y seats at a lower operating cost and rock n roll
What to do with the 346's.... Move them over to LGW, replace the 'leased' 744's with them, change the config to have a higher number of Y seats at a lower operating cost and rock n roll
Don't forget, it's not just pax numbers that are taken into account when A/C planning. There's also cargo. Anyone know how that's doing recently? Even if the cabins aren't full, doesn't mean to say cargo loads are down too. Airlines can make as much money from cargo than they can from pax.
I think cargo is been effected, but not to the same extent. We are still shipping orders via air freight.
An 346 can carry more cargo than a 744 can't it?
Regards
I think cargo is been effected, but not to the same extent. We are still shipping orders via air freight.
An 346 can carry more cargo than a 744 can't it?
Regards
Regards
James Mitchell
James Mitchell
quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
The NYC yields are in the toilet
You know, people keep repeating this and it may be true, but on the eight flights to and from New York / Newark I have taken in the last three months, UC has been full (or full bar two seats) on each, Y always full and PE less so but fullish.
Cutting one flight out of the schedule must have helped, either that or the sales, or perhaps it's all people flying on miles.
The NYC yields are in the toilet
You know, people keep repeating this and it may be true, but on the eight flights to and from New York / Newark I have taken in the last three months, UC has been full (or full bar two seats) on each, Y always full and PE less so but fullish.
Cutting one flight out of the schedule must have helped, either that or the sales, or perhaps it's all people flying on miles.
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
The old adage about full planes not being profitable needs to be remembered when talking about loads.
The 346 can carry more cargo roughly the same cargo weight, but less volume than a 744, but it uses less fuel to do so.
Cargo Op's have been all over the place, a couple of months ago SFO was moving lots, but that has died down, in general though cargo is down.
The 346 can carry more cargo roughly the same cargo weight, but less volume than a 744, but it uses less fuel to do so.
Cargo Op's have been all over the place, a couple of months ago SFO was moving lots, but that has died down, in general though cargo is down.
Full flights means nothing if the pax are paying nothing... As mentioned NYC flooded with capacity. Cargo has been hit hard (recently heard of 35p a kilo UK to China!!!), look at the B744BCF parked up at VCV..
As for the choice of A346 to park up, i wonder if they are leased from Airbus & this was part of the A330 deal (pay by the hour), as this has been done before.
As for the choice of A346 to park up, i wonder if they are leased from Airbus & this was part of the A330 deal (pay by the hour), as this has been done before.
quote:Originally posted by kayzers
On a.net it's being stated that G-VGOA and G-VYOU have been put on the market via Eclectic Aviation
So, G-VYOU was only delivered in August 2006, seems to be very odd that this is up for sale and not an early and less economical one. Unless ownership / leasing comes into play. But what a shame!
On a.net it's being stated that G-VGOA and G-VYOU have been put on the market via Eclectic Aviation
So, G-VYOU was only delivered in August 2006, seems to be very odd that this is up for sale and not an early and less economical one. Unless ownership / leasing comes into play. But what a shame!
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Well seeing as though NYC-LHR is the main route I fly 4-6 times a year, I obviously see this as a step backwards for VS. Would I rather fly on a 12yr old a343 with Odyssey or a 4yr old a346 with V-Port? Hmm, tricky question.
France and Germany are already out of the recession, and by the end of the year most economists are predicting the US and UK will be too, if not sooner. Seems odd that right as things should start picking up VS are retiring new aircraft and replacing them with old ones. I dunno, it just doesn't seem to fit in with the brand image that myself, friends and family see VS as standing for.
It's sad when the US Airways (normally a last resort for me) offering from phl/nyc to the UK is more up to date and modern than the VS product. (Ok, the US Air cabins are monumentally dreary, I admit, and the CC aren't much better, but at least I wouldn't have to schedule my naps around the IFE)
As a quick edit, yes Scrooge, I meant to say 'retiring newER aircraft', I guess in the scheme of things, I see a 2-3 yr old aircraft as 'new' still.
France and Germany are already out of the recession, and by the end of the year most economists are predicting the US and UK will be too, if not sooner. Seems odd that right as things should start picking up VS are retiring new aircraft and replacing them with old ones. I dunno, it just doesn't seem to fit in with the brand image that myself, friends and family see VS as standing for.
It's sad when the US Airways (normally a last resort for me) offering from phl/nyc to the UK is more up to date and modern than the VS product. (Ok, the US Air cabins are monumentally dreary, I admit, and the CC aren't much better, but at least I wouldn't have to schedule my naps around the IFE)
As a quick edit, yes Scrooge, I meant to say 'retiring newER aircraft', I guess in the scheme of things, I see a 2-3 yr old aircraft as 'new' still.
quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
These are not new aircraft, they were test aircraft for airbus that were later delivered to VS.
Scrooge, I looked at the aircraft database here on V-Flyer and if V-VYOU is one of those going to Lourdes then it is only three years old ... [:?]
These are not new aircraft, they were test aircraft for airbus that were later delivered to VS.
Scrooge, I looked at the aircraft database here on V-Flyer and if V-VYOU is one of those going to Lourdes then it is only three years old ... [:?]
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/fleetnov_tcm4-426050.pdf
Has list of both manufacture and delivery dates. It has G-VYOU as being manufactured in 2006 and delivered the same year. Also, airfleets.net has it's first flight listed as 08/08/06 and delivery to VS as 08/23/06. So it's literally only just 3 yrs old. Poor thing.
However, we say that, but Kayzers, I don't see where the rumour that they're selling G-VYOU started, I can't find it anywhere.
There seems to be a lot of conflicting info and rumours out there tbh. All we know for sure is G-VGOA, Indian Princess, has been grounded at Lourdes. And that is one of the older 346's, so I guess if they have to ground one or two of them, that makes a bit more sense. However, I still wish they wouldn't stick a 343 on the LHR/EWR route.
Has list of both manufacture and delivery dates. It has G-VYOU as being manufactured in 2006 and delivered the same year. Also, airfleets.net has it's first flight listed as 08/08/06 and delivery to VS as 08/23/06. So it's literally only just 3 yrs old. Poor thing.
However, we say that, but Kayzers, I don't see where the rumour that they're selling G-VYOU started, I can't find it anywhere.
There seems to be a lot of conflicting info and rumours out there tbh. All we know for sure is G-VGOA, Indian Princess, has been grounded at Lourdes. And that is one of the older 346's, so I guess if they have to ground one or two of them, that makes a bit more sense. However, I still wish they wouldn't stick a 343 on the LHR/EWR route.
Much as the A343 may not be flavour of the month with pax it is a VERY efficient aircraft to operate. The early build A346 did carry a large weight penalty (5 tonnes rings a bell) over later aircraft & i don't doubt that a maintenance check is being delayed (it would still have to carried out before selling or returning to owner though) on the two aircraft off for storage.
Let's hope that they return to service sooner rather than later...
Let's hope that they return to service sooner rather than later...
I'm shopping right now, when we get back I will pull my list to see what is up, 3/4 years is way to soon for a D check.
Denzil is correct, Airbus lowered the price on the first few due to fuel consumption not meeting promised figures.
Ok back 'home' now.
GVATL was line # 376, GVGOA was line # 371, GVFOX which was delivered 9 months BEFORE GVGOA was line # 449. In other words, GVATL and GVGOA were manufactured before GVFOX but delivered after.
Denzil is correct, Airbus lowered the price on the first few due to fuel consumption not meeting promised figures.
Ok back 'home' now.
GVATL was line # 376, GVGOA was line # 371, GVFOX which was delivered 9 months BEFORE GVGOA was line # 449. In other words, GVATL and GVGOA were manufactured before GVFOX but delivered after.
All the A346 prices lowered due competition from a certain 'big twin', not just fuel costs but maint costs. VS have their own issues with weight due to the Upper Class suite.
Interesting that VS (or the owner) are marketing two A346 aircraft, can't imagine many airlines in the market for them in the current climate.
Not sure i'd be in a hurry to spend all that money on a B744 when the Mojave is full of them....
Interesting that VS (or the owner) are marketing two A346 aircraft, can't imagine many airlines in the market for them in the current climate.
Not sure i'd be in a hurry to spend all that money on a B744 when the Mojave is full of them....
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