A330 routes and start date.

but how much longer will the A330-300(A333?)planes take than a 747? (man to orlando)

I did a dummy booking and it came up with 9hrs 10 mins for both the A330-300 and the B747-400

[Neil]

but how much longer will the A330-300(A333?)planes take than a 747? (man to orlando)

I did a dummy booking and it came up with 9hrs 10 mins for both the A330-300 and the B747-400

Yes, the flights times are scheduled to be the same, there is just a slightly later departure and arrival time for the VS75 from April.

[Scrooge]

The block times will remain the same, every airline pads their schedule so as not to get to many "late arrivals"

In most respects you won't as a pax notice the difference in flight times, from an operational point of view it won't be so easy to catch up if delays start to pile up by really putting the 744's speed advantage to use.

How will VA arrange maintenance of the A330 if it's supposed to fly every day as the VS075 fromm MAN in April when the second aircraft hasn't been delivered to rotate with it ?

[Neil]

How will VA arrange maintenance of the A330 if it's supposed to fly every day as the VS075 from MAN in April when the second aircraft hasn't been delivered to rotate with it ?

There are more A330's coming, although not rumoured to be in the 2 class config, so they will either swap it with one of those, or just use a 747 or maybe even A343.

Neil

[Scrooge]

How will VA arrange maintenance of the A330 if it's supposed to fly every day as the VS075 fromm MAN in April when the second aircraft hasn't been delivered to rotate with it ?

This is something BillS is really better suited to answering, however, being a new aircraft it will only really need an A check every day, that's just a quick check over. There shouldn't be any heavy fixes for a while with them.

A strange little thought has popped into my head, what do you think the chances are that the 330's are only a temporary measure while the 744's go in for a refit ? on the face of it they are a total mismatch for the MCO run, so do you think htey will just cover this route until there are enough 744's refitted then they will be moved to other routes ? such as the Caribbean islands ?

[Neil]

I don't see it Dave. All of Virgin's competitors apart from BA operate a 2 class config to MCO, and Thomson are reverting back to Y only. We know PE is very popular and the best earner for VS, so I think this config works perfectly on MCO, provided it is run in conjunction with a 747.

I think Bill could be spot on with his thought that we could see an increase in the number of UCS during the refits. It would work on both BGI, LAS the daily MCO ex LGW and would then give VS a good mix of numbers in each cabin flying out to MCO.

Only time will tell I guess.

One aspect is a little strange with these A333s.
Unlike all other VS aircraft, I understand they have no crew rest area. That means that crew have nowhere they can get some relief from passenger demands. This is a requirement to comply with CAA rules when a flight (including pre & post flight times) exceeds certain hours and may indeed trigger longer rest times in MCO.
MCO is known for extended weather delays which can increase the hours.

I'd be interested to hear what current crew think of this but I suspect some comments might not be made on a public forum.

This may restrict the selection of routes or cause service disruption in the future.

Particular days of service are not so critical for leisure routes - some operators only run a service a few days a week.
This could allow VS to operate UC on certain days only but that would remove flexibility if/when an aircraft goes tech.

I cannot see any of the current long-haul routes that do not cause difficulties for a 2 class, no crew rest, aircraft. It could only be used on leisure routes. That loses the very flexibility that VS need and should gain with an increase in fleet size.

Does VS want to become just another charter operation on leisure routes?

Originally I had assumed that the new UCS was badly delayed in development, that VS were not happy doing a temp. job and that these aircraft would have UCS fitted as soon as the 744 refit was completed (2012?) but this 333 layout is difficult to adapt to 3 class ready for routes such as ORD and IAD.

The only thing that does seem to work would be a 333 flying in parallel with a 744 that has larger UC (and perhaps comparatively less PE)
That way the extra requirements for UC are all together. Only one bar and all the heavy UCS in an aircraft that can easily carry them over long flights. And it would be more easily exchanged with LHR.

It seems that we will just have to wait and see how it pans out - and I suspect that is also true for VS management!

A strange little thought has popped into my head, what do you think the chances are that the 330's are only a temporary measure while the 744's go in for a refit ? on the face of it they are a total mismatch for the MCO run, so do you think htey will just cover this route until there are enough 744's refitted then they will be moved to other routes ? such as the Caribbean islands ?

I have always thought that these 330's would be used on Caribbean routes. When all the talk was about the 330s going only to LHR I just did not see it happening.

The 330 will be an excellent plane on routes such that are current Caribbean double drop routes. You can drop the double drop. Currently double drop routes operate as the smaller Caribbean routes cant offer enough demand for a weekly 744 service. However with lower seat numbers they could possibly fill a weekly 330 direct service.

For LHR I think we will be looking at NYC, BOS, DXB, ACC, NBO etc. I think Africa would be very well suited to these planes especially given the lack of crew rest they will have to be used on shorter sectors.

It's interesting reading everyones thoughts, I really think some of you guys know more than Virgin |:)

I really am concerned that if I book an UC flight and the plane goes tech, I'll end up being downgraded either by being switched onto an Airbus or another jumbo if I decide on a day the Airbus doesn't fly. I know for a lot of regular flyers it's no biggie being downgraded, but for leisure travellers like myself the flight (which I work hard to be able to fund) is a major part of my holiday experience.

I'd rather not go to the 'dark' side, but until there is a bit more clarity it's something I'll have to consider.

Clare

Virgin will do everything possible to avoid an IDB or involuntary downgrade - you get quite good compensation!
Search "involuntary" on this site and you will the comment - "as rare as rocking-horse poo".

Thanks Bill y)

Bill, as always you make some good points regarding these first aircraft. Given the observations and that they are only scheduled for MCO, I'll take a punt that they will be subsequently refitted so that some better fleet commonality can be achieved - who knows, while the new UCS is awaited, maybe VS had a good deal on PE seats so rammed those in. There are all sorts of possibilities.

As for using A333s on the Caribbean routes, well for some it will still be a big plane won't it? However I don't get it if the leisure config goes to Caribbean Islands ... Michael Winner will switch back to BA if that's the case but so would many V-Flyers too.

As for the LHR-configured planes, well one rumoured route was the VS23/24 so they must have UCS and crew rest. Another is Chicago and frankly I've been on flights with more people in UC than Y, so commercial suicide to switch leisure configs to these routes where yields are in a different league. Hence my punt on later reconfiguration is doubled!

We'll have to wait and see what comes when the config is revealed for LHR A333s.

Will - wasn't it announced in the PR that the A333s would be used on New York, LA and Chicago? I can't recall, but I hear the VS25/26 might be coming back so that could be an A333 route, the VS23/24 is often lighter than the VS7/8, so that could too, and ORD is a great candidate. Isn't this all complicated if both of the stored A346s come back into service too, then new rumoured routes, then slots (VS is I think leasing some out currently, to who and for how long ...?).

Would love to be a fly on the wall in Crawley.

Well I dunno about you guys, but I've flown a 330 to Orlando numerous times and I love the aircraft! Watch it accelerating down the runway and rotating from a head on view, looks great with the huge wing span as it flies into the sky.

Ah well, romantic glasses off, I think a varied product from Virgin will suit the travelling public well, I look forward to seeing them with an entire upper deck of UC / PE with the A380

Just a quick thought,

If Virgin are going to be opperating one of their daily flights on the MAN-MCO route using an A330, Does it not make more sense that the MAN-BGI route would be swapped to an A330 instead of have a once/twice weekly MAN-BGI using an A340-300 which would have to be flown up/down to Heathrow each week? If the A330 is already up there couldn't they use one of these on an MAN-BGI and also the new VS085, (MAN-LAS)?

Bill, as always you make some good points regarding these first aircraft. Given the observations and that they are only scheduled for MCO, I'll take a punt that they will be subsequently refitted so that some better fleet commonality can be achieved - who knows, while the new UCS is awaited, maybe VS had a good deal on PE seats so rammed those in. There are all sorts of possibilities.

I think I would agree with you Slinky. My summary was if there was no replacement of the leisure configuration. The strange thing is that VS have not come out and told the public. I just find it odd that knowing the VS PR machine, we have not had an announcement saying 'leisure config for 2011 but new UCS coming 2012'. Or is this a case of VS not wanting to be stung by the ASA again over their 'PE rolling out across the fleet' statement.

As for using A333s on the Caribbean routes, well for some it will still be a big plane won't it? However I don't get it if the leisure config goes to Caribbean Islands ... Michael Winner will switch back to BA if that's the case but so would many V-Flyers too.

I see your point and would tend to agree. However I wonder what the yields are like for J on the smaller Caribbean routes. Sure BGI is good but what about GND or TAB. I would hope that VS have done their homework and already worked out that MCO has the lowest yields for J hence the lack of it on these initial 330's.

Will - wasn't it announced in the PR that the A333s would be used on New York, LA and Chicago? I can't recall, but I hear the VS25/26 might be coming back so that could be an A333 route, the VS23/24 is often lighter than the VS7/8, so that could too, and ORD is a great candidate. Isn't this all complicated if both of the stored A346s come back into service too, then new rumoured routes, then slots (VS is I think leasing some out currently, to who and for how long ...?).

Would love to be a fly on the wall in Crawley.

I cant rememeber what VS has announced. My gut feeling is that the 330 to LAX would be a pushing the aircraft to its limit. I know that EI (and AF?) do operate 330's out that far but they have crew rest etc.

ORD does seem to be a good fit, in fact I would say anywhere on the Eastern Seaboard (plus ORD) is a good match. If DXB went double daily again then a 330 could work well.

Not knowing how well ACC is performing I would imagine that it could be a contender. Africa is a cash cow for BA. We know that just because a route is good for BA doesn't mean its great for VS (look at NAS) but I would imagine there has to be some scope for expansion. VS has flirted with African niche routes before when they operated into PHC and the American carriers now seem to be arriving en-mass as well so signs are that it could be a big growth area in the next decade.

Slightly off topic but does anyone know how well NBO does? I have seen elsewhere that NBO is one of BA's highest revenue routes.

[honey lamb]

I cant rememeber what VS has announced. My gut feeling is that the 330 to LAX would be a pushing the aircraft to its limit. I know that EI (and AF?) do operate 330's out that far but they have crew rest etc.

Not any more. EI gave up the LAX route some years ago and EI passengers are routed through JFK and ORD by EI's partners, United and jetBlue

Perhaps a tad OT but is there any idea when the seating plan will be opened up for booking? I'm (selfishly) particularly thinking of the MAN- MCO route in May 11.

Perhaps a tad OT but is there any idea when the seating plan will be opened up for booking? I'm (selfishly) particularly thinking of the MAN- MCO route in May 11.

Well its now published on the VS website. A link was provided earlier in this thread.

Sure you will be able to reserve seats on the 'manage my booking' function.

Perhaps a tad OT but is there any idea when the seating plan will be opened up for booking? I'm (selfishly) particularly thinking of the MAN- MCO route in May 11.

The A330 is already appearing in the booking engine - I used it the other day to answer another query about length of flights. It appears in a little pop up box when you click on the flight number in that part of the booking process.

Thanks for the replies willd and tonty, but the seating plan is not yet visible through 'Manage my Booking', hence the reason for my query

[Neil]

Thanks for the replies willd and tonty, but the seating plan is not yet visible through 'Manage my Booking', hence the reason for my query

Virgin said you would be able to book seats on the A330 from august 5th, but that hasn't happened.

I imagine that it will be fairly soon, so I would say keep checking.

I rang up and the agent actually allocated seats for us, not sure if that is because we are Gold, as I know others have been told no, might be worth a try.

Thanks for that, Neil. I'll give it a go y)

Someone has posted an 'update' on the Dibb, they emailed Virgin who have replied saying after checking with the relevant department the seat maps have been delayed due to further changes to be made to the seat configuration. They give a timeframe of early November.

I think if I'd managed to get my seats booked over the phone I'd want to double check?

(edit - just thought my last sentence might look a little rude, it's not meant to be )

Interestingly flew back from GND yesterday and had the usual chat with the Y CSM, apparently they recieved an email last week stating VS are basing 2 A330's at MAN with V Australia taking the rest of the order... any idea / clarification on this one?

Definately not what I wanted to hear as a LGW loyal! xx(