No APD on VS flights to Cancun if booked on 14/15 July

Sorry if a repost, but as per here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2170859/Virgin-Atlantic-celebrates-new-Cancun-route-tax-free-tickets.html

I would assume VS either discount their tickets by the equivalent APD or refund the APD after booking as there is no way of avoiding actually paying it.

Yes, VS will be discounting the tickets.

HMRC will still be expecting VS to cough up the APD - they don't care who pays it - airline or passengers they just want the cash !

Personally I would prefer SRB to say VS will actually knock off the "Operating Airline Fuel & Insurance Surcharge" of GBP 213.00 on a February flight to Cancun.

APD only amounts to £81 ): ):

It should be a saving of £81 in economy and £162 in premium economy/upper class.

Playing around with some bookings, the value seems to be in economy/premium economy.

Found some 10 days flights next year in PE for £830 which with APD removed, brings the price down to £668 (with optional upgrades to UC around £360 each leg). Economy tickets seem to be around £500 which would bring the price down to £420.

Whether these fares get bumped up during the offer booking period will remain to be seen. But looks like a decent price considering the alternatives to Cancun.

Whether these fares get bumped up during the offer booking period will remain to be seen. But looks like a decent price considering the alternatives to Cancun.

Yes that would be interesting to monitor if this is a real reduction or just some fancy accountancy.

Perhaps I'll do a couple of pre and post dummy bookings to check |:) |:)

It should be a saving of £81 in economy and £162 in premium economy/upper class.

Playing around with some bookings, the value seems to be in economy/premium economy.

Found some 10 days flights next year in PE for £830 which with APD removed, brings the price down to £668 (with optional upgrades to UC around £360 each leg). Economy tickets seem to be around £500 which would bring the price down to £420.

Whether these fares get bumped up during the offer booking period will remain to be seen. But looks like a decent price considering the alternatives to Cancun.

I did a dummy booking for March 2nd - 12th. UC works out at £1556.30, then take of £162 for APD leaving a fare to Cancun for under £1400. Now that is tempting if a relaxing beach holiday is wanted

Yes that would be interesting to monitor if this is a real reduction or just some fancy accountancy.

Perhaps I'll do a couple of pre and post dummy bookings to check |:) |:)

Now we can watch closely what actual fares are on offer the 14th and 15th July, and whether they are actually available to book ): Not being a cynic of course

PE tickets are now £1000+

The dates I looked at have increased by over £300 today.

Not the deal I was hoping for

I wonder if the APD will be removed from reward flights on 14/15 July.

Coincidentally I was just looking at a holiday in October in Cancun via Virgin Holidays. I was wondering if VH will be passing along the APD savings if we book the holiday this weekend

I did a dummy booking for March 2nd - 12th. UC works out at £1556.30, then take of £162 for APD leaving a fare to Cancun for under £1400. Now that is tempting if a relaxing beach holiday is wanted

Now we can watch closely what actual fares are on offer the 14th and 15th July, and whether they are actually available to book ): Not being a cynic of course

PE tickets are now £1000+

The dates I looked at have increased by over £300 today.

Not the deal I was hoping for

v( ! well how predictable was that.

Yesterday I quoted the advertised UC fare was £1556.30
Today, on the same dates the fare is now £2287.70 (still in Z)

Like AndyH has stated, the PE fare has gone from £831.30 up to £1107.70 (still in K)

No doubt these fares will stay at this advertised rate until after 14th & 15th, enabling VS to take off the £162 APD as promised, but they will still make one hell of a profit if anyone is willing to purchase fares at this inflated rate :0 :0

Cynic - yes I am and this is the proof v(

OK the offer is loaded and having nothing better to do I did some dummy bookings.

I chose random dates of 13th/20th November. Friday evening I did dummy bookings for the three cabins

Y - X/X went from 617.7 down to 576.7 (O/X)
PE - K/S went down 1237.7 to 1156.7
UC - Z/Z went down 2287.7 to 2125.5

I made a note of the base fare and the breakdown of the other elements

Findings

The APD is still listed in the breakdown so VS are reducing the base fare.

Economy

Unfortnatly the fare buckets changed from X/X to O/X so the comparisons are not 100% comparable BUT the base fare went down by £ 41. So given the differences in the buckets I am going to say that VS are paying the APD.

PE

The base fare was reduced by £81. BUT APD on a PE ticket is £ 162 so (based on this) VS are not meeting their claim.

UC

The base fare reduced by £ 162 so VS are paying the APD

Reward Bookings

The offer appears not to apply to reward bookings.

Fuel Surcharge

Given the Steve Ridgway email complaining (again) about APD I looked the YQ which is as follows

Y - £ 213 (2.63 x the APD)
PE - 233 (1.43 x the APD)
UC - 316 (1.97 x the APD)

Quick work Tonty, thanks for the info y) I am flabbergasted that VS are kicking up stink about APD when their fuel surcharge is absolutely scandalous v( Put a Tweet in to them yesterday about this but, of of course, have had no response n(

Very interesting and utterly predictable. !

So Tonty has said VS are reducing the base fare.

The fare which I was following for 2nd March 2013 x 10days was £831 on Wednesday with an option to upgrade for just £725 return. These prices were also being quoted by AndyH who must have been following around the dates so there is no doubt they existed. The expected reduction after the APD of £162 being taken off, bares absolutely no comparison to what is now on offer, just 3 days later !

By Thursday thefare prices I quoted had increased significantly - obviously so VS can make their offer to take away the APD look inviting

I too have now compared fares for my desired dates in March and they now stand at £945.70 in PE and £2145.70 for UC ii)

Petmadness talks about "scandalous". Think this example fits the same bill.

And yes, anyone wanting to travel to Cancun should have booked at the prices both myself and AndyH identified on Wednesday and not wait for an "offer" to kick in.
Live and learn don't we.

It's a misleading offer for two reasons:

1) The actual APD has not been removed from the fare breakdown. It is still there. If you look at the offer T&Cs http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/ideas-lowestfares/no-cancun-apd.html?cm_mmc=UK%20Social%20_Media-_-GB%20Social%20Media-_-sale-_-APD, it mentions APD free fares. But when you come to book the flight, the APD is included. I think anyone booking a flight under this offer would have a good claim against Virgin to have the actual APD refunded.

2) As we already pointed out, the base fares have already increased by more than the APD. Was there an actual sale on before, or was it just the lowest fares advertised? I believe there are strict EU advertising regulations in place preventing companies from doing what Virgin has done here. Supermarkets regularly come into the spotlight over their "offers" and quite often they do not comply with regulations, but no one enforces the rules (or rarely does).

[mitchja]

The airlines cannot remove APD from fares as it's a government imposed tax. It's the same when you see special offers that say 'pay no V.A.T.' Of course you still have to pay VAT, it's just all they do is discount the base cost by the same percentage (20%)

Sorry but you won't get anywhere with advertising rules as at the end of the day, airlines can charge what ever they want for fares plus they don't have to compare sale fares to fully published fares because not every published fare costs the same anyway.

You cannot compare airlines to supermarkets because airline fares are not fixed prices to start with.

The airlines cannot remove APD from fares as it's a government imposed tax. It's the same when you see special offers that say 'pay no V.A.T.' Of course you still have to pay VAT, it's just all they do is discount the base cost by the same percentage (20%)

Sorry but you won't get anywhere with advertising rules as at the end of the day, airlines can charge what ever they want for fares plus they don't have to compare sale fares to fully published fares because not every published fare costs the same anyway.

You cannot compare airlines to supermarkets because airline fares are not fixed prices to start with.

I don't believe you're right on the APD. Airlines have to register with HMRC and are responsible for paying the APD, but I do not believe there is a legal obligation for the airlines to actually pass the charge on to passengers. I checked the HMRC website and could not find anything about airlines being actually required to charge passengers. Of course, no airline is going to eat the APD themselves if they want to remain in business. I am pretty sure VS would have reworded or charged then deducted the APD from their booking interface if they could, but I doubt that it is IT possible for a very short term offer.

In relation to VAT, there is a legal obligation for VAT registered firms add VAT to the prices of goods/services they provide - this being either zero rated, 5% or 20%. Even with offers they cannot decide not to charge VAT.

Advertising rules apply to any business or company operating in the EU. I believe they came into effect in 2008 (will have to check this), and airlines were told around the same time to be more transparent and clear in their pricing (total fares vs excl taxes etc). My analogy with supermarkets is purely because their offers come under most scrutiny because quite often a supermarket will sell a product at £1 for 3 months, increase the price to £1.30 for a week, then launch an offer saying the the product is on offer at 30% off (selling for 91p). They are not allowed to do this, but still do.

The way airlines operate is totally different to supermarkets. Their pricing is more complex because there are many different factors that have to be taken into account, however the same basic rules apply. If a fare code sells out before an offer and prices go up, then so be it. I am not complaining about that. However, if a fare bucket does not sell out and prices are deliberately increased before an offer, then decreased again once the offer has finished, I do not think that should be allowed.

Actually, another analogy:

VS suddenly announce a 50% sale on all UC tickets (all fare codes) for three days. The night before the offer starts, they increase all UC fares by 100%. Once the offer has finished, the decrease all fares again by 50%.

They would certainly get told off for doing this - but the 50% off offer would probably lead to an increase in sales by the non-savvy community who get sucked in by headline promotions.

Actually, another analogy:

VS suddenly announce a 50% sale on all UC tickets (all fare codes) for three days. The night before the offer starts, they increase all UC fares by 100%. Once the offer has finished, the decrease all fares again by 50%.

They would certainly get told off for doing this - but the 50% off offer would probably lead to an increase in sales by the non-savvy community who get sucked in by headline promotions.

Andy, firstly any sale VS had ended on Tuesday 10th at midnight. I watched a particular fare to New York increase the next day by £50 which is fair enough.

However the amazing hike in those advertised fares from Wednesday 11th July makes me feel VS was very sneaky and extremely cunning and although this is technically within the rules of the law, personally I think this borders on being unethical !

I've been around this forum for some while now and I have read numerous feedbacks from people saying that a sale fare or an offer fare is often significantly higher than what it was advertised at previously. Nevertheless they get away with time and time again a) because they can, and b) no-one will tell them off as you say (because no rules are broken).

But before someone says this: Yeap I agree "don't like it, don't book it" :w :w

ah but they do also add in the following

13.Due to the nature of the market, it is possible that flight fares may be available at a cheaper price at a later date

ah but they do also add in the following

13.Due to the nature of the market, it is possible that flight fares may be available at a cheaper price at a later date

and the reason being is they've probably sold a significant number at the inflated price and cannot shift the rest ):

I called VH another travel agent this morning and no one has lowered their prices this weekend. So much for the promotion!

I called VH another travel agent this morning and no one has lowered their prices this weekend. So much for the promotion!

This was for direct Virgin Atlantic bookings.. Not for those booked through a travel agent as part of a package.