Visas and VA

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
May be if the owner of this site made a representation asking for a statement to assist the members that he can put on here for reference?

That's a brilliant Idea![y]

Well I finally got a reply from VA if you can call it that! This was the response I got to my original email:

Dear Wendy
>
> Thank you for your email and apologies for the delayed response.
>
> I am sorry that you have been given conflicting information from all over
> and if I may suggest looking at this website to get most of those
> questions answered
>
> http://www.ukpa.gov.uk
>
> If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to
> contact us.
>
> Kind regards

Needless to say I wrote a few choice words in response:

Linda

I have already spoken to the passport office, been on their website and
the the US Embassy's website (been there got the t-shirt in fact I now
consider myself pretty expert on this subject). You clearly have not read
my email properly so I will reiterate. As far as the US Immigration
authorities are concerned a machine readable passport with a digital photo
printed on the data page is acceptable for the visa waiver programme - may
I refer you to here:

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/vi ... p_bio.html

Scroll down to the question about what is an acceptable biometic indicator
until the 26th of October 2006 and you will see it clearly states what I
have stated above.

Now please answer my questions - why are you telling people they need a
visa when they do not and why do you insist on 6 month remaining on return
when the US do not require this because of a reciprical agreement with the
country.

I need a response on this today. This is causing me a considerable amount
of stress which I did not expect from a company that is supposed to value
its customers. This holiday is a special trip of a lifetime that I have
booked for my silver wedding anniversary so you can imagine how I am
feeling now.

I apologise if my answer above seems a little short but your reply was
fobbing me off and not answering anything I had asked. When you are
paying nearly £5000 for a holiday to be told that you may not be allowed
to board the plane because you don't have a visa even though the US
Immigration say that the paperwork it is fine is enough to send anyone over
the edge.

Wendy Evans

Just the automated response so far.

Wendy - Beware. I think they may have an email queueing system which means that nobody reads your plea in time to respond today. I know it is the last thing you need (or want) to do, but I think you need to ring the person direct and force them to confirm by fax/email that your documentation is OK. Also strongly advise you to take their email refering your to the UKPA site, and the print of the relevant section of the UKPA page, to the airport - at least you then have the evidence that you have been told by Virgin to look at the UKPA site to determine what you need, and have complied with their instruction.

I am truely sorry that your holiday is starting off like this. Chin up.
Jeremy

[Nottingham Nick]

Wendy - I hope it all works out for you.

I am afraid I have completely lost faith in emailing VS Customer Services. [V] They clearly have a number of 'boiler plate responses' (Thanks Decker[:I] ) and - as soon as they have read far enough down the email to believe that one of these answers may fit... that's it, off it goes.

I am guessing here, but I would imagine they are on some sort of incentive scheme to answer as many emails as possible in a shift, so it seems to be all about quantity and sod the quality of reply [:(]

Hence, it also seems to be 'sod the customer', which is a strange way for a customer services department to be have [:(!]..... rant over... deep breathing... calm...

Try phoning instead.

Nick

Thanks for the concern Jeremy - I'm really angry with them now because this is blatant stupidity. One of the members of the Disney forum I'm a member of suggested that we ring the UC reservations line and say that we are thinking of booking UC but wanted to check some things first so another member did. In response he was told it was fine so long as he had a valid passport! Talk about money talking! I bet they would send the sort of reply I got! However as for the email queue I know from previous correspondence with them that if you have the name of a person all future correspondence will go straight to that person.

I'm just going to get the applications in the post tomorrow and print out a copy of the US Embassy page just in case. I still intend to get a proper answer from them even if I have to send copies of the correspondence to Richard Branson because this is getting ridiculous. This is not customer service it's them causing as much confusion as they possibly can through either incompetence or lack of training. It is extreme bad business practice and I know that some people are being put off using VA as a result because another member of the disney forum said and I quote:

To be honest the more I read about Virgin of late the less Im likely to give them my money

As you no doubt can tell I am a formidable opponent when this angry - I have got past the shouting and screaming angry with me that's a temper tantrum but If I don't shout (and I'm not shouting now) then is the time to be worried as that is when the logical side of my brain really comes into play and I can really use my written communication and memory to their greatest effect as you see by my emails. It just makes me so angry that companies think they can treat people like this.

This isn't the end I'll get some clarity on this.

Well, all this has frightened me to death!!

I do need a new passport before I travel in May as mine runs out in February and has the old style photograph on it.

I was going to renew it before 26th October but then saw that the extention to 2006 made the renewal less urgent and I was going to do it later.

I have this morning as a result of this topic, raced up to the Post Office, application in hand and paid the seven pounds to have the form checked and the renewal sent off for. I am just hoping that it's going to be in time before the old cut off date to save me any of the hassels that you are all having.

If my new passport is issued after 26th October, then it looks like a trip to London if VA don't get their act together. I have e-mailed VA today to try and get some clarification myself (I know it's futile but just had to give it a go), let's hope that lots of questions from us will help the cause.

thelaceys

Originally posted by thelaceys
Well, all this has frightened me to death!!

I do need a new passport before I travel in May as mine runs out in February and has the old style photograph on it.

I was going to renew it before 26th October but then saw that the extention to 2006 made the renewal less urgent and I was going to do it later.

I have this morning as a result of this topic, raced up to the Post Office, application in hand and paid the seven pounds to have the form checked and the renewal sent off for. I am just hoping that it's going to be in time before the old cut off date to save me any of the hassels that you are all having.

If my new passport is issued after 26th October, then it looks like a trip to London if VA don't get their act together. I have e-mailed VA today to try and get some clarification myself (I know it's futile but just had to give it a go), let's hope that lots of questions from us will help the cause.

thelaceys

I'm renewing mine now too I was thinking exactly the same as you but if you read the US Embassy website it clearly states you don't need a visa if your passport has a digital photo on the data page - all passport photos since 1998 have been digital apparently (I didn't know that myself until I read it on the other forum). This is VA making things up to get you off the phone! There is no need to panic to that degree it is their handling to this that is getting me angry - the rules are very clearly stated on the US Embassy site and you don't need to understand law to be able to understand them they have even put them in a FAQ format but Virgin think they are a law unto themselves it seems! [:(!] Sorry rant over.

As mentioned on the DIBB forum I have had some important queries to asnwer from virgin regarding my booking, and their customer service is so appalling that I've written to complain with my queries as this is my only only option- the advisors stick you on hold till they can get rid of you or ask you to find this out yourself. The email responses aren't in the slightest bit helpful either.

[Decker]

Hi Genna and welcome to the forum.

I'm sure we all hope that this is resolved to everyone's satisfaction sooner rather than later - it seems to be a completely unnecessary additional stress.

This from my booking confirmation for November via E - Mail :

"Thanks for booking with Virgin Atlantic, your flight details are below. Pretty soon you'll be jetting off, but first here's your booking reference: xxxxx"

"Passengers travelling to or from the USA on or after 26 Jun 2005 MUST be in possession of a Machine Readable Passport. These can generally be identified by two lines of computer code printed at the bottom of the page that contains the passport holder's personal details. Travellers not in possession of machine readable passports will be required to apply for either B-1 (business) or B-2 (tourist) visa or apply for a new passport (this is regardless of whether your original is still valid). Please contact your local embassy or consulate for more details. If a passenger is not in possession of either a MRP or a valid visa entry to the USA they will be denied boarding".




Looking forward to seeing you onboard.

hi . this is what i read from the US Embassy website , on the "passport validity" section

If traveling under the Visa Waiver Program, the passport must be valid for at least 90 days from the date on which the holder enters the United States. If not, the holder will be admitted until the expiration date on the passport. Note: Passport holders from Andorra, Brunei, and San Marino must be in possession of a passport valid for at least six months from the date of departure from the United States, even if traveling visa free under the Visa Waiver Program.

has this helped ?

Well I got a result and finally got a reply:

Dear Mrs Evans

Thank you for your lastest email. Please accept my apologies for the delayed response.

I understand you have been in contact with my colleague, Linda. As Linda
is not available to respond to you on this occasion, your message has been forwarded
to me for reply.

Firstly, I would like to extend my congratulations on your upcoming wedding
anniversary. It's a pleasure to know that you and your family will be travelling
with us on such a special occasion.

In understand that some confusion has arisen with regard to visa and passport
requirements and I would like to sincerely apologise for the inconvenience this has
caused you and your family.

Generally we do not confirm passport or visa requirements via email; we recommend
that passengers speak with the relevant embassy directly to ensure that accurate and
up to date information is given. This is also the source of our information for
visa and passport requirements. However, I understand that your concern is with
regard to incorrect information being provided by our Customer Service advisors.

Can you please confirm what telephone number you dialed when you were given the
incorrect information? This information will help me to provide feedback to our
Communications and Training team, to ensure that we are providing correct
information to our customers.

I noticed your booking has been made with our sister company, Virgin Holidays. If
the error has occurred by a member of the Virgin Holidays team, I will need to feed
this back to their Reservations Manager.

Most passports that have been issued by U.S. and UK governments since 1988 are
machine readable and biometric, however some passports issued overseas may not be.
It may perhaps be terms used to define passport requirements that are causing
confusion and it is this that I hope to clarify.

When travelling on a British Citizen (not British Subject) passport, you are
permitted to enter the United States using the Visa Waiver programme. This is
provided that your passport is valid during the entire time that you are in the U.S.
and you have a machine readable passport. You are permitted to stay in the U.S. for
up to 90 days without the need of a tourist visa.

A machine-readable passport has the holder's biographical details, e.g. name, date
of birth, nationality and passport number, contained in a two lines of text at the
bottom of the photo page. This text, or ÒMachine-Readable ZoneÓ (MRZ), can be
read by a scanner. All passengers travelling to the U.S. on or after 26 October
2004 were required to have machine-readable passports to enter the United States on
the Visa Waiver Programme.

If your passport is being issued or renewed on or after 25 October 2005, it must
include a biometric identifier. As you have pointed out, a digital photograph of
the passport holder's face printed on the data page of the passport will be the
acceptable based on standards implemented by the International Civil Aviation
Organization (ICAO).

It is only after 26 October 2006, that passports will also need to include an
integrated circuit chip capable of storing the biographic information from the data
page, a digitized photograph and other biometric information.

Therefore, provided that your passports meet the above criteria, you will not have
any problems when clearing U.S. customs and immigration.

I hope this has helped to clarify the queries you have had.

Mrs Evans, thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Please be assured that I will forward your feedback to the relevant Manager to
ensure we are not inconveniencing our passengers further.

We wish you and your family a pleasant journey and stay in Florida.

Kind regards

So we were correct in the first place you should be fine - well I've posted my applications anyway now so it doesn't matter if they aren't issued before the 26th.

This reply came from customer relations who I had sent 6 copies (for effect) of my reply to the customer services person I've told her I will forward on the numbers that people have been ringing so if you let me know I can tell her. At least we know for sure now.

[Nottingham Nick]

Many thanks for all your efforts in this thread, Wendy.

Thanks also for letting us know the outcome. [y][y]

Nick

Indeed.. this is very useful information, and is helpful to all of us. Many thanks.

You are most welcome!:D

wendye,

Thank you as well.

cheers wendye, nice reading your posts on the dibb too;)

Well done great news, let's hope they stick to what they are saying. I for one feel perhaps the pressure is off now. Please post a TR when you get back I'm sure we would all like to hear how the trip went and Happy Anniversary!!!:D

thelaceys

Wendye

So glad you got the good reply & can now relax and enjoy looking forward to your celebration. Seemed like VS just didn't know what they heck they were doing. To be honest, I hadn't realised just what a mess this was until I saw everyone's comments in this thread after mine (mind, I've only had to renew my passport the once) [:I]

I guess this para sorts out the "6 month validity after return" bit too:

Originally posted by wendye

When travelling on a British Citizen (not British Subject) passport, you are permitted to enter the United States using the Visa Waiver programme. This is provided that your passport is valid during the entire time that you are in the U.S. and you have a machine readable passport. You are permitted to stay in the U.S. for
up to 90 days without the need of a tourist visa.

Thanks for sharing what you found out [y]

Cheers

Michael

Originally posted by wendye
I'm renewing mine now too I was thinking exactly the same as you but if you read the US Embassy website it clearly states you don't need a visa if your passport has a digital photo on the data page - all passport photos since 1998 have been digital apparently (I didn't know that myself until I read it on the other forum).

Glad to see things are getting sorted.

Just a note abou tthe digital photo thing. I have a passport
issued by UKPA in 1999 and it does _not_ have a digital photograph
so it is not true to make a blanket statement that all passports
issued 1998 onwards contain digital photos. The UKPA website
says this and it isn't true.

However, I'm still having a really
hard time working out what the significance of the digital photo
is! As far as I can tell, it appears that this fulfils the
"biometric" requirement in the period leading up to October
2006 when passports have to have chips in them.

Chris

To confirm what cshore said, my passport issued in 2000 does not have a digital photo. However from what I have read only those issued on or after 26 Oct 2005 need to have the digital photo.

Originally posted by cshore


Just a note abou tthe digital photo thing. I have a passport
issued by UKPA in 1999 and it does _not_ have a digital photograph
so it is not true to make a blanket statement that all passports
issued 1998 onwards contain digital photos. The UKPA website
says this and it isn't true.

However, I'm still having a really
hard time working out what the significance of the digital photo
is! As far as I can tell, it appears that this fulfils the
"biometric" requirement in the period leading up to October
2006 when passports have to have chips in them.

Chris

I was basically repeating what someone else has said Chris so it's a bit unfair to say that! Besides as you have seen yourself it does say this on the passport office website.

However I know what you mean about the digital photo it doesn't really seem any different to me either. The main thing is though that it extends the VWP.

Originally posted by wendye
I was basically repeating what someone else has said Chris so it's a bit unfair to say that! Besides as you have seen yourself it does say this on the passport office website.

I wasn't criticising you! I recognise very well the words you were quoting as I've read them myself countless times in the last week!

Chris

Looks like those talking in the Disney Forum were right. I sent off my passport renewal application on Friday and my new one has just landed on my doormat this morning, one week turnaround. Really pleased and glad of this subject being posted otherwise I would have forgotten about doing it.

Thanks
thelaceys

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by thelaceys
Looks like those talking in the Disney Forum were right. I sent off my passport renewal application on Friday and my new one has just landed on my doormat this morning, one week turnaround. Really pleased and glad of this subject being posted otherwise I would have forgotten about doing it.

We have had the same experience, a super fast turn around, and a shiny new passport.

Sincere thanks to all that have contributed to this topic. Whatever the reality turns out to be, it is better to be safe than sorry. It is one less thing to be concerned about in the run up to a trip. [8D]

Nick