All PE seats booked - cannot reserve a seat?!

Hi - I'm on the 10 from JFK to LHR next Monday(17th) in PE, and it's showing all seats as reserved. Nothing available.
Does this means the flight is overbooked?

I'm Au, so booking is free normally.
Thanks

It’s certainly looking busy but IIRC the front row is always reserved for infants and unavailable to pre-select so at least some of those 7 seats should become available at check-in.

[mitchja]

It’s certainly looking busy but IIRC the front row is always reserved for infants and unavailable to pre-select so at least some of those 7 seats should become available at check-in.

If it's a 346, the middle section of the Premium bulk-head row (seats 18D, F & G) do usually open up as you approach OLCI time as there are no bassinets fitted on the middle section of the bulk-head row.

I've managed to grab this row at a couple of hours before OLCI opened in the past when flying on a 346 in Premium.

I believe all the other Premium bulk-head rows on all other A/C do all remain blocked until airport check-in.

It’s a 333.

My advice would be to keep checking once or twice a day between now and next weekend in case anything opens up. Failing that, attempt to complete OLCI as soon after T-24 as you can, and see what’s available then.

Thanks all for advice. which I'll follow.
must admit I was kind of thinking/hoping they'd oversold it and that increased the chances of an OpUp, but seems not!

rather not be in middle seat of middle row, so Ill be on it at T-24.

Thanks

Thanks all for advice. which I'll follow.
must admit I was kind of thinking/hoping they'd oversold it and that increased the chances of an OpUp, but seems not!

In this scenario, i'd be turning up dead last with HBO. As close to check in closing as I dare.

Gold, single traveller in overbooked Premium is prime to be Op-Up'd. I've done it more times than I can count now.

Helps if Upper is very light as well.

It’s not - only one UC seat is unallocated (plus the bassinet seat). Obviously things can change, particularly on the JFK route, but as things stand I fear checking in last would more likely result in a downgrade or a bump than an upgrade.

Thanks all, yes it seems a crowded flight. Economy pretty packed too.
(what's 'HBO'?)

Yeah, turning up last/late not checked in, is a roll of the dice. You could end up in the worst, unwanted middle seat in PE, or downgraded, (shouldn't an Au be last in line for these?) or ... bumped, and as this is the last flight of the day, that means loosing a day.

"Are you feeling lucky, punk"?!

Ahhh. Hand Baggage Only. Got it.
Yes, that's the case. Thanks.

Shouldn't an Au be upgraded over someone else in PE anyways - regardless of check in times?

[mitchja]

Shouldn't an Au be upgraded over someone else in PE anyways - regardless of check in times?

Not necessarily as VS don’t just look at your FC status. I do know that the fare class you are travelling on is also taken into account if op-ups are required. I suspect other factors unknown outside of VS are also used as well.

When I checked in for the VS128 a few months ago, even being AU I was asked if I would be willing to downgrade to Premium as Upper was over-booked. I politely declined.

At one time didn't AU status guarantee you an Economy seat on a flight (unsure of the fare code restrictions - but it might have been full fare Y only)? i.e. Virgin would bump someone to ensure an AU passenger could fly in Economy if they'd bought the right ticket? Can't find any mention of it on the VS website now, but I am pretty sure the perk did exist at one time.

I know when I went to NYC in about 2009 there was a passenger sitting at the bar with his carry-on bag when we boarded. The FSM was then going round every passenger in Upper who showed on the manifest as travelling solo and trying to get them to downgrade to Premium - must have been for the passenger at the bar, presumably an AU or UNIQ who only wanted to travel in Upper which was oversold. The FSM got no takers to the passenger offloaded himself.

I know that on oversold flights in J / F, BA can & do actively decide who is definitely travelling and will be allowed to do OLCI in advance based on Executive Club / fare paid status. If you're not on the list, OLCI is disabled for your booking and you have to do airport check-in so they can manage the downgrade process with you. Has happened to my parents. They refused the downgrade and flew the following day in J.

VS still have “guaranteed economy seat” on the Gold benefits list IIRC.

VS use a combination of the following, however I’ve never managed to work out what trumps what, although I have suspicions that it’s the following order.

Fare bucket
Check in order (SEQ/BCN)
FC Status
Single traveller

BA has an algorithm that decides, but it’s heavily weighted towards the CIV - customer index value - which is calculated from a combination of things such as loyalty, spend, fare buckets, partner affiliation etc. Essentially it helps decide ties better because a passenger with no status or low status who buys two full fare F returns per year is worth more financially to BA than a Gold who took only a few cheap BA flights and earned the rest through status hacking/partners.

Anyway... I could talk about this all day, but it’s conjecture and somewhat off topic.

"Fare bucket
Check in order (SEQ/BCN)
FC Status
Single traveller"

So, given same fare bucket, a freshly minted FC Red who grabbed an earlier SEQ would be given priority over a lifetime Au, who did OLCI an hour later?! Sounds an odd priority list to me. (I appreciate its conjecture!)

I'd add that departure country matters too. The US agents seems to manage upgrade lists, and prioritise its frequent flyers/Au's far more than UK, where they are greeted with a "meh" shrug too often!

The rest - fare bucket etc, I can see why that might count...

BA, so the thinking goes, actually DEprioritise frequent flyers when it comes to op-ups.

The thinking being if a low or no status passenger who flies with BA infrequently gets upgraded from premium to business, there’s a decent chance they’ll be converted and not only choose BA but pay for business instead of premium next time.

Whereas upgrading a FF is unlikely to generate extra business as that person is already loyal to BA and less likely to pay in future to upgrade from the cabin they normally fly in.

There is some logic in adopting that approach.

On one of our early flights with VS we were upgraded from Economy to Premium. Having experienced the latter we have booked tended Premium over Economy since.

Still waiting for the Premium to Upper op-up!

"Fare bucket
Check in order (SEQ/BCN)
FC Status
Single traveller"

So, given same fare bucket, a freshly minted FC Red who grabbed an earlier SEQ would be given priority over a lifetime Au, who did OLCI an hour later?! Sounds an odd priority list to me. (I appreciate its conjecture!)

Like I said, conjecture. Nobody outside of revenue management or experience of actually working for VS would likely know the full details. Believe me, i've tried to get it out of people, and everything else I know is based on many dozens of VS flights where I try and game the system - often with success.

SEQ/BCN is usually in reverse order, i.e. last to check-in = first to move.

No matter what though, VS has a fairly manual system, certainly in comparison to BA. A lot of these decisions do not happen until after check-in closes, where as the BA system has already made determinations prior to OLCI opening.

BA, so the thinking goes, actually DEprioritise frequent flyers when it comes to op-ups.

The thinking being if a low or no status passenger who flies with BA infrequently gets upgraded from premium to business, there’s a decent chance they’ll be converted and not only choose BA but pay for business instead of premium next time.

Whereas upgrading a FF is unlikely to generate extra business as that person is already loyal to BA and less likely to pay in future to upgrade from the cabin they normally fly in.

Absolutely correct. I got lots a number of op-ups when Bronze & Silver despite being on flights with colleagues who were Gold. It's an interesting tactic.

The BA tactic is not so much based on status but your history of previous bookings and those cabins.

So lots of previous bookings in Club and you book in WTP once isn't going to get you high on the list for an op-up on that trip. But have lots of WTP bookings then they may think they will have a good chance of you changing future bookings to Club after you've tried it. They are looking for longer term spending rather than just status.

Just to update: I tried to grab a PE Exit row seat exactly on T-24, but none were available. It just flipped to "Assign at Gate".
So we'll see how it plays out this evening at JFK . I'll likely end up sitting next to the toilets!

To finish up this thread in case anyone runs into same problem: turned up 90 before flight, hand baggage only, but got the worst PE seat on plane, at back right next to the loos. Terrible.
PE was totally full, am pretty sure they upgraded someone, but it wasn't moi (Au)

Came back 4 days later in Economy, Exit Row seat - far better than the PE experience.
Confirms my opinion - PE is not worth it most of the time.