A330 NEO - now confirmed 17/06/2019

Additional aircraft has been speculated on a number of threads in light of the continued expansion at LHR and the proposed expansion at MAN (including the possible acquisition of Thomas Cook long haul).

Top up orders of A35K and B789 have been speculated, but it seems VS has settled in the A330 NEO - according to Reuters (link below).

What we don’t know is how many are firm, whether any additional options are in the background, whether it is the A338 or A339 and which aircraft (if any) this is intended to replace.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-airli ... KKCN1T308C

Very interesting, could bring some uniformity across the new 350 and 330 fleet if they integrate around the same time.

Presume this is a like for like for some of the leased 333s currently in the fleet that were on 10 year leases. With Brexit on the horizon and the new velocity business case for VS it feels very much like DL is taking a decision to make the most of its investment and power up VS for growth. Where does this leave the 332s that were on 4 year leases...

Have to say it also is not a ringing endorsement for the 789... maybe VS has had enough given the years of T1000 issues between Boeing and RR. Interesting ANZ has just ordered the 787-10 with the GEnx ( a sting for RR given their 789s are T1000C and TEN opd and they were heavily impacted by 789 issues).

I’d be surprised if it is a like for like replacement to the A333. Absent delayed retirements or extending the leases on the A332’s, the fleet is due to decrease by 7 frames by 2022 (I think).

In light of the current and planned expansion, I think these are more likely to be for expansion rather than replacement (or at least partial expansion).

Assuming it goes through my guess is there will be options on top of whatever is committed to replace the A333’s.

If it's to replace their current a330s then wouldn't the go for additional 787s (maybe 787-8s) so then they will on have two aircraft types in the longterm (A350 and 787)? Still doesn't shed much light, IMO, on what they're replacing the 747s with.

The apparent decision to go A330neo over B789 is a valid question. My best guess is that there will be convertible options for additional aircraft in case more A35K are needed or if they want to look at the A220.

I’m sure the engine issues for the B789 played a part, but I can’t imagine that would be the decisive factor.

The Paris Air Show starts two weeks today, so I guess we won't have to wait too long to find out what the order will be (if there is one). Airbus & Boeing will be holding back on official order announcements until then, as the annual Farnborough / Paris game of one-upmanship starts.

As an aside, I was in the South of France last week (Ardeche - so relatively sparsely populated) - there was a large Airbus plane & some fighters practicing some very elaborate manoeuvres. Can only guess it may have been a practice run for a display for Paris - if so, it'll be worth watching.

Update: it is speculated that Virgin will order 14x A330neo and this will be announced today.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloo ... -new-a330s

[mitchja]

Now confirmed; order for 14 A330-900's. Delivery between 2021 - 2024 to replace the A333's.

This implies to me that the 14 firm orders are to replace on a 1:1 basis, the A333 and A332 fleet.

As the A332 were introduced to cover for the B789 downtime, this in its self is an expansion of sorts.

The 6 options are presumably for further expansion flexibility.


The other way of looking at it is that you get 12x A35K and 14x A339 (26 aircraft) replacing 8x B744, 10x A333, 4x A332 and 5x A346 (27 aircraft in total - albeit I’m not sure how many of these are highly utilised at present).

This implies to me that the 14 firm orders are to replace on a 1:1 basis, the A333 and A332 fleet.

As the A332 were introduced to cover for the B789 downtime, this in its self is an expansion of sorts.

The 6 options are presumably for further expansion flexibility.


The other way of looking at it is that you get 12x A35K and 14x A339 (26 aircraft) replacing 8x B744, 10x A333, 4x A332 and 5x A346 (27 aircraft in total - albeit I’m not sure how many of these are highly utilised at present).

Simplifying fleet types also means you can increase utilisation.

Well done to VS for the order. The A330ceo replacement order could have gone either way and there were pros and cons to going with neo's or more 787's. Look forward to seeing them flying for VS in the future.

[mitchja]

A little bit for info:

We've become the first UK airline to announce a firm order for 14 Airbus A330-900neos, with an additional six as options, reaffirming our commitment to flying the cleanest, greenest fleet in the sky.

The new planes are designed to be 13% more fuel and carbon efficient than the A330-300 they replace and will deliver a 50% reduction in airport noise contour. Over a ten year period, 2014-2024, the fuel efficiency of our fleet will have improved by 32%.

The order, valued at $4.1billion, is a crucial step in our fleet transformation programme which will see 100% of our planes replaced over a ten year period, creating one of the youngest fleets in the skies with an average age of just 5.3 years. Of the firm order, eight will be purchased and six leased, as we continue our investment into increasing the proportion of owned aircraft in our fleet.

The aircraft will be exclusively powered by the Rolls Royce Trent 7000 engine, drawing on more than 50 million flying hours of experience from the Trent 700, which powers the original version of the A330. The 68-72,000lb thrust Trent 7000, which entered service in November last year, delivers a step change in performance and economics compared to the Trent 700.

The new aircraft will offer all Virgin Atlantic cabins; Upper Class, Premium and three tiers of Economy; Delight, Classic and Light, allowing for continuous evolution of our award-winning customer proposition, working with frequent flyers to ensure we continue to offer the best possible travel experience for customers. The aircraft will operate on both business and leisure routes worldwide with bases at London Heathrow, London Gatwick and Manchester Airports.

Shai Weiss, CEO of Virgin Atlantic, commented;

“2019 marks a return to growth for Virgin Atlantic as we strive to become the most loved travel company and the nation’s second flag carrier at an expanded Heathrow.

A fundamental part of our strategy is collaboration with partners and our announcement today with Airbus and Rolls Royce, following the launch of our A350-1000 this summer, takes our partnership to the next level. The acquisition of 14 A330neos will play a pivotal role in our fleet transformation and it is testament to our sustainability commitment; by 2024, we will have improved the fuel efficiency of our aircraft by 32%.

We will be proud to operate the youngest, cleanest fleet yet, with an average age of just over five years. It also allows us to continue innovating for our customers to create an on-board experience we know they will love.”

It will be interesting to see what they do with the cabin interior now and this must surely align with the plans for refitting the J cabin on the 787s to create a consistent product?

They chose Roll Royce engines for the a330neos so maybe the reason why they didn’t chose the 787 was something different to the engine issues!?
Still confused as to what the 747 replacement is going to be- to me it currently looks like they will either be using a330s with additional frequencies on current 747 routes or just current frequencies but smaller plane, which could mean loosing a large market share on the Orlando route.

I think the A35K will replacing the B744 MCO routes at LGW and MAN with the A339’s operating the likes of JFK, BOS, IAD, MIA at LHR and MAN.

I suspect the 6 options are a contingency for expansion at MAN, and it makes sense for them to retain the A333s for slightly longer as a less risky option.

At MAN specifically, the A339 could operate the full realistic spectrum of current / future routes, including to LAS, LAX, SFO, DEL, BOM, HKG, BKK, JNB/CPT (these possibilities are my speculation only).

[mitchja]

It will be interesting to see what they do with the cabin interior now and this must surely align with the plans for refitting the J cabin on the 787s to create a consistent product?

Wasn't Shai Weiss quoted as saying that the 789's are now starting to reach their mid-life cycle anyway a few weeks ago at the A350 launch and so I guess they will likely get re-fitted at some point.

The only question is now what's going to happen to the 4 x A332's?

As I’ve alluded to in the past and as Jakedonson says above - I still feel like VS have a problem with the loss of the 747s and this doesn’t really address it. If it was an outright order for the full 20 it would make sense but just replacing like for like doesn’t really as there will I’m sure be some pretty big losses of capacity on MCO and that doesn’t just translate to higher fares, but to a whole loss of market share for Virgin Holidays and I believe that they are the market leader for MCO in the UK.

They are gonna have to have additional frequencies but I still don’t see where the aircraft for those additional frequencies will
come from!

Wasn't Shai Weiss quoted as saying that the 789's are now starting to reach their mid-life cycle anyway a few weeks ago at the A350 launch and so I guess they will likely get re-fitted at some point.

I remember that, yes.

My concern with the cabin alignment is that I seem to recall somebody saying that the new Upper Class suite on the A350 was totally custom for that aircraft and wouldn't be going onto the others. Maybe a slightly different version perhaps?

I'm fairly confident that the 787 & A330 are not wide enough to accommodate the same config as the 350 anyway.

Maybe a slightly different version perhaps?

I think so.

I cannot remember where I read it, so apologies for the lack of source, but I read a quote saying that the 787s and 330s (presumably the NEOs) will receive a new Upper suite, but will be a slightly different version given the lack of width that the A350 has.

The only question is now what's going to happen to the 4 x A332's?

I assume they are going to be the first aircraft to be replaced in 2021?

I assume the firm order for 14x A339 are a direct replacement for the 4x A332 and the 10x A333.

This gives (I think) a moderate capacity increase and the expansion options available are to either retain the A333s in service for a longer period (they aren’t that old!) or pick up some of the options for A339s. I suppose this ambiguity means flexibility in future, which is a good thing.

Yes I suspect that they haven’t quite worked out when they will hand the 333s back although I suspect the 332s will be as soon a possible.

It would be nice to see the first 339 based at Manchester...there’s a growing army of Northern VS fans and they haven’t had it great the last two years with the 330s taken off them and the 332s being well...the nickname Berlin Bomber is there for a reason!

First 339 on ATL/JFK and coincide with the Manchester clubhouse opening?!

My thinking is the first will be based out of LHR/LGW to release the 332s by freeing up some 333s to head north before they leave the fleet.

332s were on 4 year lease so expect them to leave around late 2021/2022 in line with 339 deliveries.

Remember, the first 4 A330’s delivered were sublet to other airlines (Air China seems to ring a bell) because the “new” at the time Upper suite wasn’t ready and they were actually fitted out economy, premium economy, economy.

They were out on hire for quite a while before they came back, then eventually refitted with the correct upper, premium, economy config.

The rest of that fleet then started to arrive.

They could be the first 4 to go.

David.

I always thought that the planes that didn’t have Upper were meant to not have upper and be for the leisure market!! The more you know!

[mitchja]

The first VS A333 (G-VSXY) also went into service in April 2nd 2011 on the MAN>MCO route.

At the time, weren't the A333's a stop-gap order for the delayed 789's as well?

I flew on G-VSKY on the MAN>MCO route back in Dec 2012 and she was still in the 2 cabin config at that time.

Given the ex Air Berlins are on a fixed 4 year lease and VS invested several millions in refurbishing them all I can see them wanting to wring that value out of them before handing them back to the lease holder. I bow to others knowledge as to when they entered the VS fleet and when they are due to leave!