Locked topics

I know I'm being very lawyerish when I say this (and in fact I am attempting to be a devil's advocate), but all new users should read the stickys in each forum and other FAQ relating to posting when they join. However these do not indicate that threads will be locked if they are duplicates. Perhaps that should be added to clear up annoyances? I should note that they do say that a search should be performed before making a new post.

This is me expressing my opinion. I think a pop up would be really annoying, and I for one would absolutly hate it!

""Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I reckon online forums must be an anthropologists dream. It's really interesting to watch social structure, law and order develop. And then threads like this crop up!
In the course of my Open University studies I have had to use and even study the use of on line conferencing, and I've developed a real interest in just watching threads develop.
I used to be a frequent lurker on another more "fruity" airline forum, and found it facinating the way threads would very very quickly polarise. Usually into Airbus vs Boeing or Virgin vs BA or LoCo vs Mainline and the like.
I had pretty much lost the will with forums and have frequently found I got nothing out of the OU forums, since it was full of people flying off at a tangent, but then I discovered this site.
Yes it is tightly moderated, but I find that useful in keeping the information content focused. Keep up the good work I say, though don't deduct any more posts from my tally please... I'm still bitter about the wrist slap!

{Edited to add: I've found the edit button!... No, edited to add: I think lurking and watching threads develop on forums is similar to why I like just hanging around in airports. You get to see all sorts of interesting people and behaviour!}

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by dom
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"I disagree with what you say but I will fight to the bitter death for your right to say it."
Oh the cliches are simply too many.
I have an idea.
Why don't those who have the bleep button just let it flow.
Maybe set up an anti VS section? Put all the threads you don't like in there.
That way you can control all the scabs. But please don't censor.Don't stiffle debate ( which you do ).
And by the way, the thought of attending a social where all you discuss is moderators censoring is frankly, uhem, well whatever - crack on.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom there. I take offence at your derogatory post.

I don't recall seeing you at any social event ever, so how are you coming up with the conclusion of what we talk about? Don't make wild assumptions based on little or no evidence.

We do not censor, and I certainly don't think VS are flawless and absolutely perfect - they know full well that they are not.

I actually completely understand where the OP is coming from on this, and I think you have wildly missed the point. To help you along the way and give you a synopsis - GJ was giving an opinion that closing threads as duplicates and the way that it has been done in the past seemed a bit draconian. You chimed in with an opinion with no reasoning at all. Your latest post is accusing us as the site of censoring people who dare question VS, or complain that something is not up to par. I could reel off a vast array of threads that have been less than complimentary about various aspects of VS, the point is that they are done constructively.

As for reference to 'scabs' would have been nice for you to elaborate exactly who you mean. Just because someone doesn't like an aspect of VS doesn't make them a lesser person, I am for discussing/debating the point in question with them.

Basically in a nutshell, if you don't like what you see here, then why bother coming back? If I go to an establishment, and don't like the service then I'll be damned if I waste my time there in future.

Thanks,
Richard

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by dom
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"I disagree with what you say but I will fight to the bitter death for your right to say it."
Oh the cliches are simply too many.
I have an idea.
Why don't those who have the bleep button just let it flow.
Maybe set up an anti VS section? Put all the threads you don't like in there.
That way you can control all the scabs. But please don't censor.Don't stiffle debate ( which you do ).
And by the way, the thought of attending a social where all you discuss is moderators censoring is frankly, uhem, well whatever - crack on.

Just a little info.

For the one meeting I was at (well ok 5 day meeting)the website was discussed for maybe 4hrs or so,the rest of the time it was a let your hair down funtime,enjoyed by all.Yes even the wife who thought we would all be a bunch of plane spotting nerds had a blast,to the point where she has asked that V-Flyers join us on our winter vacation to Spain this year,so please do no judge those that you know nothing about.

Originally posted by preiffer

The Sky TV advert is a perfect example of this.

I must appologise for making a duplicate thread about that, I was just quite excited about seeing a UCS advert and a new one at that.[:I]

I never thought the amount of locked topics here was an issue, I've been on other boards where if the thread didn't conform to the moderators/admin's views it was closed or delted - I think EGG knows what I'm talking about!

Personally I don't see the note put at the bottom of the locked thread unfriendly or short and snappy, it's necessary to put it on as a reason as to why the tread has been closed, and I really don't see how you can put it any kinder? If there wasn't a note as to why a member's thread has been locked there'd be questions!

the reference to this subject being prominent at social events came from within. maybe bazz?
I frankly don't give a rats arse what you get up to at night. However a public forum is precisely that. And there is no doubt in my mind that you not only censor, some moderators ( or whatever they are called ) are aggressive in how theyt censor posts.
Now either you are or you are not a public forum.
if you are, and want to be seen as such, call off the dogs, let it flow.
If you are not, and want to be seen as a little private fan club then let it flow.

{Edited by Decker to remove an ad hominem - an edited version follows - these are not the words of the original poster}

4 hours? I consider 4 hours out of a total claimed time of 120 hours to be an excessive amount of time to spend talking about VS.

[Scrooge]

Let me take one more shot at this.

Is there censorship on this site,sure,there has to be.But if you look here you'll notice that both you and I are agree on a few things and not being censored while doing it.

So what it comes down to is this,this forum allows people to research any questions about VS they may have,it also has another part to it that if you joined you would find out about,but you wont join so your loss.

However to sit there and cry censorship when I cant find a post of yours that has been censored just comes of as trolling.

[Decker]

This is not a public forum. It is a member's only forum with rules. Public fora are normally funded by the public.

Originally posted by dom

the reference to this subject being prominent at social events came from within. maybe bazz?
I frankly don't give a rats arse what you get up to at night. However a public forum is precisely that. And there is no doubt in my mind that you not only censor, some moderators ( or whatever they are called ) are aggressive in how theyt censor posts.
Now either you are or you are not a public forum.
if you are, and want to be seen as such, call off the dogs, let it flow.
If you are not, and want to be seen as a little private fan club then let it flow.

Well, ere we not the happy type who make coming on to public forums so much fun?
You obviously have a chip on your shoulder from other forums and I have to say, reading you missives on this topic I can understand why all public forums have to have moderators.
I am sure that you have the ability to form your own open, no holds barred forum.
Please do let us know the address of it, once you have made this utopia of non-moderated fun.

[Scrooge]

well how long till this thread gets locked down,if it's going to become a slagging match then it should be locked soon.

Originally posted by jetwet1
well how long till this thread gets locked down,if it's going to become a slagging match then it should be locked soon.

Yes, it's quickly becoming a fist fight. [V]

[Decker]

OK I am going to lock this thread temporarily whilst the mods discuss it.

[Pete]

As a footnote to this thread, it's probably worth pointing out that no-one has the *right* to free speech on V-Flyer, apart from me.

Your *right* to free speech allows you to start your own publication (online or otherwise) and distribute your opinions as you see fit. No independent publisher has any obligation to publish your view.

That said, on V-Flyer, I like to encourage all sorts of opinions providing they are not libelous or based on personal attack and I trust a group of regular visitors who have volunteered their time to moderate the forums and make sure they don't deteriorate.

As a site aimed at people who choose to fly with Virgin Atlantic, there is obviously going to be a bias toward Virgin, so if your intent is to litter the forums with anti-VS sentiment, you better have a good flak-jacket. You are more than welcome to criticise any aspect of the Virgin service, just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

With regard to the original posters assertion, I think there are some very valid points there and this has sparked healthy discussion amongst the moderating team as to how to deal with duplicate threads. However, I think certain other individuals have hijacked it in order to get something off their chest. If you feel better airing that then good for you. In the meantime we'll get back to the business of discussing Virgin Atlantic and its service.

Pete

[Bazz]

Dom,

You have incorrectly refererred to my earlier post twice now and I take offence at your personal interpretation of what I said which appears to be for no other reason than to stir things up.

Firstly you state:

...And by the way, the thought of attending a social where all you discuss is moderators censoring is frankly, uhem, well whatever - crack on.

Secondly you state:

the reference to this subject being prominent at social events came from within. maybe bazz?

What I said was:

...We welcome input, ideas, yes and constructive criticism from all our members. You would be surprised I am sure, by the amount of time we spend deliberating on these matters both online and at our frequent socials. Noboby wants to put a member down but what we cannot allow is for someone to try to manipulate the direction of the site for personal reasons...

So discussing input, ideas and constructive criticism becomes "discussing censoring" in your post simply to suit your purpose and my expressing an opinion that the membership would be surprised at the amount of time we spend deliberating on these matters is twisted to make it "being prominent at social events" simply to try to excuse your earlier post and pass the blame to someone else. Well it didn't work!

If you are going to put forward a point of view and choose to represent the views expressed by others to further your position kindly do so correctly or do not bother at all.

[preiffer]

OK All,

The topic's re-opened for constructive discussion to continue.

While we've not altered/removed previous posts, can we please ensure the key points that GJ was trying to address are the center of future conversation - rather than personal jibes?


Thanks,

Have been following this thread with growing interest. What started out as a constructive original post by GJ has deteriorated into the sort of thread you often read on other less friendly forums.

I feel that I have quite a balanced veiw - I have had great Virgin flights and dreadful ones too. I also really enjoy flying BA. I have never felt that I couldn't criticise VS on this site - in fact any criticisms I have posted have been met with sympathy from the mods. I have always found this forum really friendly and open and it is refreshing not to have to worry about being shot down in flames when posting.

I posted a TR for my last trip which the outbound was pretty much "pants" ( return was fab though ), no one took offence and most sympathised with me, overall I remain loyal to VA for all the other fab flights I had.

Going back on topic, its true that some of the more shy or over exited
new posters might feel a bit of a plonka when told that they double posted ( or asked the same question in the same thread, yup that was me[:I] on the what do you do if someone pinches your suite )

But the mods or admin normally politely lets you know and directs you to the appropriate place.

Sometimes I think this "freedom of speech" thing is just a lame excuse that bullies fall back on when they want to hurl an insult.
Free speech isn't a liscence to offend nor any excuse to do so.

Just wanted to say well said to pixuk. [y] [y]

Originally posted by dom
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"I disagree with what you say but I will fight to the bitter death for your right to say it."
Oh the cliches are simply too many.
I have an idea.
Why don't those who have the bleep button just let it flow.
Maybe set up an anti VS section? Put all the threads you don't like in there.
That way you can control all the scabs. But please don't censor.Don't stiffle debate ( which you do ).
And by the way, the thought of attending a social where all you discuss is moderators censoring is frankly, uhem, well whatever - crack on.

I was reading this whole post and enjoying the constructive comment and suggestions from all posters - I was going to read to the end - but then I saw this!!!

Im not a mod - I use this site, I contribute - I am a member and therefore help financially.

I have to agree with some of the other comments here - this post is bang out of order - your not even a member and you dare to write such comments - the terms of refernece of the site are pretty clear - I suggest that if you want to set up an anti VS site then please go ahead - its a big internet world out there - otherwise I think yoru comments are crass, misplaced and rude.

Sorry - I should have read through to the end of the whole Post before I replied but Im afraid what Dom said was just wrong - hey ho!!

In my opinion you have to have mods who make descisions from time to time on duplication, use of possible offensive words or topis and things that are off topic - we are a VS site so that shoudl be the main core of what we discuss - if I wanna talk abotu Antharx and what they are up to I go to http://www.anthrax.com - etc!"!!

I have duplicated post - used a possible offensive word and gone off topic - a mod has changed my post, pm'ed me and I have either gone - "oh yeah" I see - no worries or I have questionned the decision - hey - I am a big boy and can deal with it!!!!

As Pix said - its his site he can change it all tomorrow to "we Love BA" (Noooooooooooooooooooo!!) if he wants - we contribute we spend time and money ( if we want to) to help run it - but its his invention , his baby, his copyright ( I guess)!!

Blimey - I was only away from the board for a day and a half and all this happened!!

[Scrooge]

Mark,first of all,thanks for the last two posts,I guess they hit the nail on the head,if you don't like the way the site is being run,don't visit the site.

As to the BA comment,funny you should mention it BA-Flyer,though to be honest I don't think they are the biggest fans of BA.

History will tell us that those who overzelously use the freedom of speech argument, use it precicely to drown out everybody elses freedom to have an opinion and eventually usurp the very concept of freedom.

Good old communism, freedom for all and equality, and yet always administered by despots and closet facists.

Give me the friendly polite and informative mods on this site anyday
rather than "free speechers" who want to drown out everyone elses point of view.

[honey lamb]

I wanted to make an observation (but desisted when the free-for-all was ongoing [:(] )

OK, some threads get locked because of duplicates because

a) the poster is new and doesn't realise there is a search facility
b) the poster can't be bothered to use the search facility and believes that his question has never been asked before (That includes "Which plane am I" on threads [:0] )
c) the poster has done a search and believes that the topic is new, perhaps because the wrong key words were used.

However I should just like to point out a frequent scenario whereby multiple posts are made in all innocence. The board is made up of several fora and it is quite legitimate to post in more than one. I myself have on occasion agonised as to which forum to use (well, a little bit - I'm not that nerdy) Therefore it happens that, if VS announces a new initiative such as, for example, the triple miles promotion, posts can and do appear in the General Discussion, the News Bites and the Flying Club within minutes of each other by different posters, each believing him (or her)self to be the first with the titbit. Obviously in that situation the mods have to make a decision about this and I am always pleased to see that they link the locked threads to the open one. I am also pleased to learn that they PM the poster as to their reasons. I was unaware of that not having (yet) multiple posted. That obviously takes the sting out of the lock down.