Nut Allergy

Just read the trip report from Decker and it reminded me of our last trip to Madeira with Thomas Cook Airlines in October. On these flights you can either pay for the meal or bring sandwiches etc yourself.As soon as we boarded we were told of a passenger with a severe nut allergy and therefore told they would not be serving peanuts (advertised in their onboard menu) and would people with their own food please refrain from eating anything with peanuts in it!!!!!! The same person was on the flight back as well, which was nice.
Why is it that all of a sudden we have people allergic to peanuts? It now seems that every other person you speak to is either allergic to peanuts or the other favourite, "yes I`m dislexic".
What are the manufacturers adding to peanuts that they didn`t put in before? I have flown on countless flights over the years and never been told that we cannot eat peanuts. I think it is out of order that these people get special treatment. I am allergic to Penicillin and not once have I heard the cabin crew ask other passengers to refrain from using Penicillin on my flight, no matter how many times I ask them.

I don't think it's "out of order" whatsoever. I can hardly see what is such a chore about not eating peanuts for a few hours.
You may find it inconvenient. Others may agree. Personally I would rather forgo peanuts rather than risking adversely affecting someone else's health. (Regardless of whether that risk was minimal or otherwise).
I have to say (and granted, you may have just been a little flippant when posting) that I find your post a little offensive.

[honey lamb]

On a JetBlue flight from TPA to JFK they made a similar announcement about a peanut allergy and in fact blocked off some of the aisle at the front of the plane so we could not go near that person. We had to use the loos at the back of the plane (and enjoyed a mighty craic with the cabin crew! [y] )

I don't understand why they would take such precautions, I thought an alergic reaction would only occur if they digested or physically came in contact with the food.

[honey lamb]

Sometimes with a severe allergy even the dust from the nut is enough to trigger an allergic reaction

VS recently stopped their NUT FREE flights and replaced them with NUT FRIENDLY where the main difference is Now the caterers place a label on the SPML something like

"While this meal does not contain nuts it has been produced in a factory which handles Nuts with all precautions taken to avoid contact, but cross contamination can not be gauranteed"

Its probably due to the fact that nut allergies are better diognosed than previous and as reactions can be so serious no Airline or Food producer wants to have the legal law suits. Food companys and caterers cant gaurantee that any product wont contain nuts and airlines who offer special assistance departments have to take reasonable steps.

Some people cant eat nuts, some cant touch nuts and some cant inhale the aroma of nuts. Reactions can be so serious that mid flight could lead to all sorts of medical emergencies and even diversions costing thousands of pounds.

Well the subject does raise some interesting points.

I've also noticed an increase over the years in the number of nut sensitive travelers you get on planes. I assumed that as most carriers recycle cabin air these days then contaminants would be more prevalent in the cabin air (the term 'flying Petri dish' has been bandied about many times).

Like Paul I also get a little annoyed being told that 'Ze nuts are verboten' on a flight, not because I'm a nut aficionado but just that I have an instinctive dislike of the many being inconvenienced by the few, even when you know it is for a valid reason. It just gets under my skin.

Here is the thing though; I have a severe allergy to shellfish. I wouldnÕt dream of going to a rawbar because of the threat of contamination. I don't go there and demand all seafood be removed from my vicinity. On the other hand I have a small herd of cats and have had people come to my house and ask me to put the animals outside (in foul weather) because they had allergies to dander.

I think I am taking the better approach to the issue however some people, i'm my experience, simply expect others to adhere to their needs, valid or otherwise.

If someone is so highly sensitive to nuts that they cant even be around a microscopic amount of nut-dust in the air then I have to ask if they have any business putting themselves into a metal tube with hundreds of other people.

What is next....do people that have severe claustrophobia get to demand that their seatmates have to stand for the entire flight?

There is a woman in the US that is lobbying congress to get ALL peanuts removed from ALL flights because she is 'afraid' to fly with her son. Well IÕm sorry but if her son has a life threatening reaction to a commonplace foodstuff then she shouldnÕt be taking him on a plane in the first place. Is that extreme...well for her yes it is, but those are the breaks. I'd love to eat oysters on the half shell but I can't.

Most allergic reactions to nuts happen when people are eating away from home, especially in restaurants. So what is next, do we ban nuts from restaurants as well.

I think what Mark was alluding to is that the 'Nut Nazis', whilst having very real and serious issues to contend with, are making demands of all people and not in some cases taking responsibility for their own well being in such circumstances.


Here is an interesting link http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~aair/nuts.htm#SEC5c2

Umm...how do I tidy up that link?

[Decker]

http://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/informati ... lergy.html makes some good points. It is a tough call. When we drive we put other's lives at risk. Arguably we release toxins into the air which might prove carcinogenic to a susceptible individual. At what point does individual responsibility come into play? The above article suggests that others eating peanuts on the flight of an allergic individual is unlikely to prove anything other than discomforting.

FWIW I suspect strongly that the OP was being flippant. The OP actually raises an interesting question - why the increase in allergies? We do seem as a society to be experiencing an increase in all manner of symptomatic illnesses.

I suspect the banning of allergens by airlines is merely another manifestation of our increasingly litigious culture.

Yeah I read flippant rather than offensive!!!

Its a tricky one but being in the food biz its becoming more and more prevalent. Nut allergy has always been around its just thatthe reason for people feeling unwell and getting serious muscle spasm is now better understood - and its not just nuts there are a whole range of allergies out there from nuts, to wheat, to tomatoes and even to chocolate( yes ladies imagine if you suffered with that - Ok and some of you blokes too!!)

And yes - just the presence of the nuts in the ambient air can cause the problem!!

Now whether or not one person's allergy should prevent everyone else from not having nuts is a tricky one - Im a lover of Macadamia nuts and always take them on flights as a snack - so if no warning was given I woudl happily be chomping away? I think the responsibility must lie with the allergic person - and I do think it would be better to have the discussion when booking - I can see that the parents of the child in Decker's case would want to chewck and double check that the food was nut free because nuts can slip into things all too easily - my friend wouldnt even kiss her partner if he had been eating nuts in the past 24 hours!!!!

So do we put up with it - I think the answer is that we have to - there isnt an easy way around it other than cocooning the person in their own "bubble" for the entire flight - and yes - I believe we all have to play our part in society if someone is suffering in whatever way to try and assist them.

Having re-read the post this morning (and not being half-asleep as per when I posted my reply) I can see more flippancy in the post, I have to say.
Interesting subject though, should be a good discussion

Hey think yourselves lucky it's just a few hours on a flight...our school has been made totally nut free so we aren't allowed to eat peanuts even in the staff room, or have peanut butter in sarnies. One of my faves is peanut butter, raspberry jam and banana [:#]

To be fair though, one of the staff has a nut allergy and to even be in the same room as an open packet of nuts makes her start to fee a bit odd.

Some people cant eat nuts, some cant touch nuts and some cant inhale the aroma of nuts. Reactions can be so serious that mid flight could lead to all sorts of medical emergencies and even diversions costing thousands of pounds

Not to mention the human cost;)
I strongly agree with you milehigh, any reaction is pretty serious on the ground, but in the air this it is much, much worse. If you're half way ovcer the atlantica dn someone has a reaction, then it's going to be at least 3 hours or so until you can get help. In very serious cases, people with allergies have to be extremely vigilant about what they do and unfortunately, flying can pose some pretty big problems.
Maybe if airlines have multiple flights to a destination (like to NY) then they should designate one as nut-free with an extra careful clean and no nuts in food or in the cabin.[:?]

Cheers,
VS045

If someone has a severe reaction to peanuts such as even in the smell or coming into contact with trace amounts would cause serious problems, i'd like to think you'd plan your flight, inform the airline and take your epi-pen/other medication with you, not chance it and expect the rest to not eat peanuts.

If you come prepared, there should be no problem!

Originally posted by Lipstick
If someone has a severe reaction to peanuts such as even in the smell or coming into contact with trace amounts would cause serious problems, i'd like to think you'd plan your flight, inform the airline and take your epi-pen/other medication with you, not chance it and expect the rest to not eat peanuts.

If you come prepared, there should be no problem!

Lipstick I agree with your comment about epipens (however you would be surprised how many people leave their brains at home when setting off on holiday)

As for this increase in allergies, yes there has been a huge increase in the prevalance on allergies such as nuts and latex. The reason behind this is not clearly known, but many argue that with more 'exotic foodstuffs' being readily available people are being exposed to a number of new compounds that they never have been before. A number of colleuges and myself simply put a lot of them down to this clean as anything culture - let your kids play in the mud - it builds up their resistance and most of us turned out ok - well nearly.

As for this nut-free flight - rubbish. Unless this person has one of the most severe allergies then I see no reason why it needs to be a complete nut free flight. Nut free food fine, remember they had to walk all the way to and through the airport and I don't believe the air there was filter so that nut particuls from the bars and lounges were removed!!!

All in all if the passenger with a nut allergy was given nut free food and there were no nuts on the trolley used to serve him then he should be fine. Now if he had left his epipen at home the VS medical kits would be able to handle that too (incidently they are much better stocked than BA) So after all that ranting I think it was a bit OTT on VS part, but as mentioned before nobody likes the thought of being served with court papers and imagine the bad PR!!!!

Its a tricky subject for airlines, as those that agree to a passengers request for a 'nut free flight' could be leaving themselves liable should the passenger suffer a reaction.

Some airlines will specifically warn nut allergic passengers that they may not be allowed to travel if they indicate that they have a medical condition that could cause a serious anaphalacitc (sp?) shock.

Working in Cathay CRD I was often requested Nut Free meals by a passenger, and we took the line above, that if they indicated the alergy was very serious we may have to decline travel. It was especially difficult as pretty much all food prepared in Hong Kong comes in to contact with Nut Oil. At the time BA were telling people they could have nut free catering on the Hong Kong route, even though their meals were supplied by Cathay and we knew full well it would be contaminated with nut oils.

Anaphalactic shock (sp also ?) its not like a headache where you take a tablet and it usually dissapears. those that need to use an ephinedrine pens as a treatment should not use them like a paracetamol so just advising them to take them and use it because others want to eat nuts or nut products and cant wait 6 hours?? then that would be selfish.

also if special assistance have several calls for a route on the same day they will try and select one flight as a nut friendly service.

I can see both sides of the argument[|:)] In my view the easiest solution would be to insist that passengers with serious nut allergies contact the airline prior to check in opening, that way the rest of the passengers can be informed the flight is nut free and can make alternative snacking arrangements. Certainly snacks form an essential part of my flight in Y as an alternative to Wooster sauce flavoured pretzels[:$]

Thought I might be able to add some points to this discussion as my eldest boy who's now 9 suffers from an allergy to peanuts. Apologies for the length of my reply, but it is something I feel strongly about.

The first point I'd like to make is that this kind of allergy is different to others that are maybe more commonly encountered. The severity of a reaction in my son's case could be different from one day to the next. So it's difficult to class nut allergy sufferers as "severe" or "not severe". One day contact could just produce a rash or hives, the next he could swell like a balloon.

Second point. Having a peanut allergy is a disability, he didn't ask for it or do anything to "catch" it, he is a victim of chance as nobody has yet definitiviely identified why this condition is becoming more prevalent. To say people why would people suffering from this allergy put themselves inside a sealed matal box would be discrimination as it is for any discrimination again disabled people.

I'm a regular business flyer with Virgin. Last year decided to take my family on vacation to New York with Virgin as I have always been impressed with their service and my boys wanted to see this place dad was always flying off to. At the time of booking you have to inform Virgin of any traveller disabilities including allergies. You are then sent a medical questionaire which we had to complete in from which your GP maybe contacted. A few weeks later you get informed whether you will be allowed to fly. We did not request any special treatment apart from requesting a nut free meal if that was possible and permission to take onboard his epipens. We took a packed meal along for him just in case anyway.

I booked our seats at the back corner of the plane, just to reduce the chances of someone sitting around him who decided to munch away at a packet of nut.

But you have to imagine how worried as parents we were. Of course we carry his Epipens wherever he goes, but even in the case they are used, we have always been advised to take him straight the A&E. The though of being at 30,000ft and potentially 3hrs from emergency services is always hiding at the back of your mind.

As people have mentioned, it is not only the ingestion of peanuts, but exposure to the aroma at the other extreme which could cause a reaction. But it is the ingestion which is most likely to cause the most severe and life threatening conditions. But everyday we have to balance risks against rewards, and I thought the experience of him visiting NY outweighed the small but potentially deadly risk. Otherwise, what are the alternatives, he never travels beyond the UK.

I was quite surprised but please when the stewardess announced that there was a young boy with a severe peanut allegery onboard and they would request that passengers refrain from eating peanuts. Rather than the aroma being my main worry, my concern had been that someone eating a packet of nuts will then have the residue on their hands. This could then be picked up by my son who could then inadvertantly lick his fingers at some point.

But the outbound flight passed without incident, and I can only thanks indirectly the people who did refrain from eating nuts on that journey, and the cabin crew who took a special interest in the welfare on my son. The return journey was just a good, except for him being given a muffin for breakfast which was clearly labelled as having potential nut ingredients!

His life will already be blighted, no Curry's or Chinese meals after a few pints down the pub. No snogging without first asking if she's had any peanuts (not a good chat up line). Why shouldn't he be able to experience the rest of the world like the rest of us. Surely it's a small price to pay nut eating nuts for a few hours. For my sins, I've been an addicted 20 a day smoker for years, but if I can go without a cigarette on a long haul flight so that I don't expose others to passive smoking surely someone can refrain from nuts for the same amount of time.

Someone earlier mentioned that their wouldn't kiss their partner for 24 hrs of they had eaten nuts, and put few "!!!" at the end of the sentence. Last year, a peanut allergy sufferer died in just that way, after kissing their partner a few hour after they had eaten nuts.

I could go on, but I expect many readers might have not read this far. Every shopping trip is an event in my househould, having to read the labels of everything we buy. Even though a product doesn't have "may include nuts" this month, it doesn't it won't next month. Rarely has my son been to a birthday party where he can eat the birthday cake, as normally it's not known by the birthday boys parents whether it has nuts in it, nor do we expect them to know. So maybe you can see why I can't treat someone being asked to not eat peanuts for a few hours as being a matter of deep concern.

BTW, I love peanuts, I only get to get them when away on business these days and would eat them on the flight. I don't wish to ban peanuts on all flights, but if someone asked me not to for a valid reason of course I will refrain.
I'm not a "no nut" nazi, just your average concerned parent.

[Nottingham Nick]

Thanks for your post Armonk, and a warm welcome to V-Flyer. [y]

This condition, like many others, is something that the vast majority of us glide through life in blissfull ignorance of. I have no hesitation in being thankful for that.

Is the condition hereditary, I know you say you like peanuts, but what about your partner? If not, how did it first manifest itself? I ask this, only because I assume that, in extreme cases, the first a parent would be aware that their child suffered with this disability, would be when it killed the child.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your first hand experiences. We continue to learn a lot from the V-Flyer community, and it isn't always how to get more points into of FC accounts.

Nick

Originally posted by Armonk

Someone earlier mentioned that their wouldn't kiss their partner for 24 hrs of they had eaten nuts, and put few "!!!" at the end of the sentence. Last year, a peanut allergy sufferer died in just that way, after kissing their partner a few hour after they had eaten nuts.

That was me - I use "!!!!" all the time - probably incorrectly - itsw a good friend and colleague of mine who has the allergy and she carries the pen with her - my other friend and colleague started going out with her two years ago and he is still learning the ins and outs of the illness!!! As are the rest of us!!

MJ

Thanks for that Armonk, welcome to v-flyer also.

Its always good to see this kind of firsthand experience and I think you have hit the nail on the head with your comments.

As Crew We understand the severity of such alergies and have a lot of training in this area, I think that what you have written will highlight to others in the forums how this kind of disability can affect peoples lives.. You wouldnt ban someone in a wheelchair just not allow seating upstars. Everyone with a dissability should be given the opportunity to carry on their life to as much of a normality as possible

I think the underlying theme in the thread, and certainly what I was refering to, is where does the mutual responsibility between passenger and airline meet? I just want to add I am not being combative with those that suggest that flights should be nut free but I think the subject raises some interesting points and thats the purpose of a message board after all.

I understand that US Airlines are mandated to keep a 'nut free' zone around passengers that indicate they have such an allergy. Airlines obviously need to provide nut free meals (it was distressing to note that the muffin was provided for the young man's breakfast, in an earlier TR a pax with a gluten allergy noted that he had been provided cookies that would have triggered a reaction despite informing the airline about the gluten allergy).

At the end of the day we are talking about nuts, unless you are a squirrel its no big deal not to ingest them for a spell. For that reason I think the subject is one of those 'well its no nig deal so we'll just do it' things that people and companies accept.

The bigger issue, to me at least, is where does personal responsibility come into it. I think it is only a matter of time before we see a law suit, triggered no doubt by tragic circumstances, where an allergy sufferer (from any serious type of allergy) will sue an airline DESPITE the airline in question taking preventitive measures.

Then we have the issue of personal vs corporate responsibility to deal with yet again in the courts.

If you think that Im just making a mountain out of a mole hill then I would draw a comparison with the current anti-tobacco company law suits that are being filed, and won, by smokers, which in many of the cases (but not all) is just ludicrous.

At some point people have to stand up and say 'Ok this sucks but I have this ailment so therfore certain activities arent open to me' or 'I have to accept that I have a serious affliction that carries with it a certain amount of risk'.

I take that mindset but luckilly in my case it isnt difficult (unless Im in a Dim Sum place then its like Russian Roulette with chop sticks) but should I suffer a serious reaction in those circumstances the thought of litigation wouldnt enter my mind (well it might enter but I wouldnt act on it).

Due to agressive and in many cases illogical litigation the role of personal responsibility is getting erroded and as you can see that really irritates me.


A little more interesting reading
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1047032004

Wow Armonk that was certainly a marathon way to start your time here at v-flyer![y][^]:D

Cheers,
VS045

Originally posted by adam777
The bigger issue, to me at least, is where does personal responsibility come into it. I think it is only a matter of time before we see a law suit, triggered no doubt by tragic circumstances, where an allergy sufferer (from any serious type of allergy) will sue an airline DESPITE the airline in question taking preventitive measures.

Self responsibility in health and flying is remarkably seperated. I've lost count of the number of times when we've looked after people who didn't take their medication etc and then got ill and were surprised and blamed it on the airline/flight. The worst that will stay in my mind is a guy who was allergic to food colouring. Didn't bother telling the airline because his flight was only three hours or so. Anyway on the way home he felt a bit peckish and decided to have the sweat and sour chicken by just wiping the sauce off it. The flight diverted to us and took the last bed in the hospital!!!!

Flying really can make the most sensible people loose the plot I swear.

I think Adrian has exercised the voice of reason here.If someone has has such a severe allergic reaction they should not allow this risk exposure to themselves or others.I too have allergies (latex,chlorhexedidine and numerous other substances I come into contact with on a daily basis as a hands on clinician as well as a manager) but have to be reasonable in my approach to these difficulties .If someone has a peanut allergy (which incidentally is a legume as opposed to a nut)do they alienate themselves totally from the rest of mankind (ie never go to a supermarket,fill their car with petrol,go to college/university,walk down the local high street,go to the pub etc.....). I think not.I do not inconvenience my colleagues with my "difficulties" ,possibly as I do not view them as disabilities but merely as inconveniences and simply manage these situations as best as I am able.I have a colleague who has a child with a (very)severe allergy to peanuts -however this has not prevented him from travelling the world with her and without the need to cause high levels of expressed emotion throughout the aircraft he has been travelling in. She (in return) is well balanced, resourceful, and knows how to react if she starts to feel unwell (which has happened in a controlled hospital envrionment). I fear that the litigous society in which we live will have us fearful to leave our front doors without signing some form of disclaimer.Sad but true.
Julie