Crew treatment by customers.

I most certainly do not wish to come over as snobbish. But when I first started to fly with my parents in the early '60s I felt like a member of an elite club each time I boarded an aircraft.Crew were treated with the utmost respect and likewise they us cos respect generally earns respect.

This continued through to the late '70s/early '80s when a different type of passenger started to slowly emerge. These early version of "chavs" had done a few charter flights to the Med and the Canaries and now decided to venture farther afield on schedule flights. They had been lead to believe that the customer really was king and that it was their god given right to get their full moneys worth even if it offended and inconvienced other passengers and crew. To them cabin crew were "servants" to wait on their every need and other passengers - the normal majority - were there to be abused.

Through the remainder of the '80s and into the '90s things continued to deteriorate with the number of these type of passengers increasing. Obviously this was not helped by the fact that the cost of air travel became much cheaper and so the world was now everyone's oyster.

I have always and shall continue to treat my flying experiences as something very special. I continue to have total respect for the ground, cabin and flight crew and greatly admire the lengths they go to, to make my journey safe, comfortable and highly enjoyable. They all do a difficult and stressful and tiring job, yet manage to keep smiling and somehow they still manage to go that extra mile to give myself and the majority of other passengers a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

Okay - have now kicked the soapbox into the corner and shall continue on my merry way.

There is absolutely no excuse for pax being rude to cabin crew: I have heard people swearing, safety instructions ignored and just plain rudeness. Ansolutely unacceptable in my view. I would quibble about the relevance of the safety demonstration to a frequent flier, but I do pretend to pay attention as a matter of courtesy!

Mind you, I have lost count of the times I press a call button and it has been completely ignored, and all the times cabin crew have found it preferable to giggle in the galley rather than serve the passengers. And if you peruse some of my trip reports you'll find instances of rudeness from cabin crew as well. In my experience VS tries to tread a fine and laudable line between informality and process-driven professionalism, but sometimes strays a little too far towards the former.

BC

Shoreside I agree with you, and lets not forget that crew are dealing with people that are travelling, often people are not at their best, not that thats an excuse for rudeness mind you.

On the flip side, particulary when travelling in Y, there are carriers (and NOT VS in my experience) that manage to convey that you are nothing more than a piece of freight to be carried off to wherever and could you please just shut up, sit down and leave us be. BA, Continental and the thankfully bankrupt Pan Am excel at this, from the check in, to the lousy inedible food to FA's that did their customer service training at Parkhurt Prison they just manage to put you right in, what they see, as your place.

VS have a long way to fall before they reach such depths.

I think that it's a case of 50/50 really. You're gonna get pax who are just complete idiots and downright rude, and occasionally you'll get crew who behave the same too. Having said that, I've always travelled with Virgin on inaugurals/work etc when half of the airline's top brass and SRB himself have been present, so I was never gonna get bad service. I've yet to travel on VS as a fare-paying passenger! I've a number of friends who are VS crew and they tell me funny stories of horrible pax they've had, and I do feel sorry for them. You get what you give - so if you're nice to them, they'll be nice back to you. Likewise, if you give them a hard time, then don't expect that little bit extra back.
BA however, are just plain, well just plain. They could do with some tuition in decent customer service.

Originally posted by virgin is the best

Oh and J class customers not taking any notice of the seat belt sign. Its funny but a few think that because they have paid a large amout of money that is safer up there so they dont need to use the seat belt or listen to safety instructions.

Though I fully agree with other people on this thread and believe that manners cost nothing, I do think the disregard for this particular rule is probably because in many cases the seat belt sign is on so far out from landing that it probably engenders disrespect in people. I do realise though that it takes a long time after the seatbelt sign is on to get everyone sat down.

Couple with this the entertainment system being switched off around the same time ( why? I realise headphones have to be collected but turning off games, skymap etc is plain annoying ) then people are possibly going to resent being patronised, which does nothing for the crew:passenger relationship, regardless of where the rules come from.

Thanks,

David.

[Decker]

I can answer two of those questions easily re: J.

Let me start by saying I observe the seatbelt signs AND I watch the crew member telling me where the exits are. On yesterday's VS01 J pax where standing when explicitly told not to.

Now assume you fly every month or so... your mind might go down these routes :-

The crew can wander around handing out coats. Is my standing up a safety issue or a crew convenience issue?

The safety video blatantly lies - please pay attention as this may be different than you have seen before. Actually no - it's identical to every other carrier just with different characters. And do I REALLY need to look at where my exits are if I'm in Zone A? What you mean I don't burrow through the wall to get out?

I look at crew doing the demo to be polite.

Just 2 cents...

Originally posted by virgin is the best
As I say its only a small % but why?

If only a very small % treat crew badly then the flip side of the coin is that the vast majority of passengers treat the crew reasonably. In my experience the same goes for cabin crew.

[HighFlyer]

Originally posted by Decker
please pay attention as this may be different than you have seen before.

You mean "Its really important to give it your full attention, even if you are a seasoned traveller - like me!"

Thanks,
Sarah

[Decker]

I was naturally quoting the SAA F video with the Jeffery Archer lookalike...

[
I sometimes have thought I overdo the please and thank yous - but clearly not...

I dont think we are all turning into "grumpy old men and women" but it really annoys the life out of me when common courtesy is just ignored.

God knows how we get these people to change - I must admit I say thank you quite loudly if I haver held a door open and the person ignores me[V]
[/quote]

LOL Mark - I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with the courtesy thing. All too often, (she says, sounding just like a grumply old woman), it seems we're surrounded by ignorant oafs. Is that putting it too strongly? No, sadly, I don't think it is. Common courtesy - or maybe now it's uncommon - costs nothing and is just so appreciated...[oo]

Prehaps the few rude pax are the ones that make the rest of the pax suffer when the cabin crew treat us all the same as the rude people.

My last two trips with VA however have made me go on the verge of moving over to the dark side, there is nothing worse than having a loyalty for something like Virgin and total admiration only to have it slapped in your face like a wet fish by "some" cabin crew members with attitude.

I am just hoping my next UCS flight will restore my previous admiration and exitment for the Virgin brand.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
My last two trips with VA however have made me go on the verge of moving over to the dark side, there is nothing worse than having a loyalty for something like Virgin and total admiration only to have it slapped in your face like a wet fish by "some" cabin crew members with attitude.

I don't think I've yet experienced any rude cabin crew on VS - I have experienced rude check-in staff with BA though - one of those situations where a couple of staff were chatting (discussing their social life, no doubt) and just carried on with it, rather than doing what they should be doing!

Excuse me now, got to get the cat to the vet's.... booster, you know. Boy, am I going to be Mrs Popular...[}:)]

My grandmother always used to say 'you win more bees with honey than you do with vinegar'

Much as that sounds a bit disgusting, its true.

Be sweet, and you'll have everyone buzzing around you, be sour, and nobody likes you.

Interesting subject.

Having read the other posts, I think the basic issue is that there is a small % of the whole population that are just ignorant. I think that the attitude these people has is borne out of their own feelings of inadequecy and to make themselves feel better they bully people they perceive as beneath them socially.

If you should come across one of these people console yourself with the fact that they are probably a sad and lonely person who has no love or happiness in their life and will continue to lead their pathetic existence while the rest of us can take pleasure in the fact that we're not like them.

That should make you feel better

Miopyk

Let me start by saying that I am a great believer in "do as you would be done by". We should treat everyone with respect.

I worked for many years in a front line customer service position, so I am all too familiar with the joys and pains that that can bring. At the risk of sounded too Pollyanna-ish, I always tried to find the positive reason why someone might be behaving in a particular way. For example:

1. Pressing call bells for nothing.
It might be accidental (pressing against the button without realising it) or through ignorance (didn't know what the button did).

2. Ignoring us when we ask them to do something safety related.
They might be hard of hearing or not speak English as a first language, or worried about the flight and thinking of something else.

3. Asking us to lift heavy bags because they cant.
Maybe they are pregnant / have a bad back / are elderly. Maybe the bag can go in a wardrobe rather than be lifted overhead by anyone.

4. Trying to listen to what we are saying when talking to them without taking their headsets off. So we have to repeat ourselves.
Maybe this really is the most exciting part of the film they have been desperate to see for a long time (especially if not V-Port). Is the detective just about to reveal the murderer?

5. Never saying Please or Thank You.
I never expected any of my customers to say please or thank-you: it was my job to serve. That way, if anyone did say it, it was a bonus.

6. Talk down to us, Swear at us, Role their eyes at us, Ignore us, touch us, pull on our clothing.
Being "talked down to" is really hard to judge and may not be intential at all, but there is no excuse for the rest of this behaviour. You have to remember that some people are rude and try to be grateful for the majority who are not.

7. Not watch the safety demo. Its there for you not us.
Yes, but probably only the most frequent flyers. I've certainly seen cabin crew on positioning trips not watching the video. If it is a manual demo, then of course it behoves people to pay attention.

There are two ways to respond to seeming impolite behaviour. The first is to take offence and let it affect you negatively. The second is to try to assume the best in people; that they had a good reason for their behaviour or thinking. It doesn't make the behaviour any different, only how you feel about it.

I hope I haven't made anyone reach for a sick bag, it was just my tuppence worth!

EC

[mitchja]

Great response Edna [y]

You have raised some very interesting points there which I hadn't thought about.

I think the overall way to handle situations like this (although there's no excuse for being rude at all from both the pax and the crew) is not to take it personally.

Regards

There may be a few reasons for this behavior.

1> Fear of flying does no good for interpersonal skills.
2> Being out of control causes excessive anxiety and can lead to a change in a persons thought processes.
3> The color red can be a trigger for some people to become aggressive.
4> Alcohol, SAY NO MORE
5> The superiority Factor. I paid for upper/premium so therefore I am and I will.
6> some people donÕt like to be told what to co especially if the consequences of non compliance are not easily evident I.E the forces involved when a 747 on the taxi way suddenly puts on full breaks to avoid a collision or other type of hazard. This is enough to throw an un-belted person out of their seat and cause sever impact injuries, but because they have not seen it happen then they can not se the danger in it.
7> And of course there a just some people who are just ill mannered.

I must say I always take time to be polite and chat to the cabin crew, they are human too and itÕs a long hard slog looking after 400 or so passengers with individual needs, requests and mannerisms. I have never had a cabin crew member be rude to me or give me cause to be rude to them. You Get what you give so being rude does not pay any dividends.

Cheers Wayne
By the way just noticed this is my 100th posting on V-Flyer will I get an award or something?
[^][y][8D]

[preiffer]

Originally posted by jerseyboy
By the way just noticed this is my 100th posting on V-Flyer will I get an award or something?
[^][y][8D]

Nope - you DO get the option of buying a Silver membership kit now though [y]

That is, after you've got your red one, of course

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by jerseyboy
By the way just noticed this is my 100th posting on V-Flyer will I get an award or something?
[^][y][8D]

Nope - you DO get the option of buying a Silver membership kit now though [y]

That is, after you've got your red one, of course

Do you think if I ask my new found friend and number 1 Mod Decker nicely he will give me a silver membership for free for hurting my feelings?.

[preiffer]

Good lad, GJ [y]

Gotta keep the toffs on-side [:p]

[honey lamb]

As part of our customer service training we were introduced to the Moment of Truth concept. I believe it holds true for both passengers and crew alike.

As a passenger there have been times when I have been flustered. Perhaps my inbound flight was late, thus shortening an already short connection. Ok, usually I am so pleased to make check-in that I am sweetness and light - I think - but if I have already had a very early start maybe I am not as pleasant as I might have been. I can think of occasions when I have had to be assertive and this has not gone down well - especially when I am in the right. However, it is what I do afterwards that can help to change that perception.

Similarly with cabin crew. A perfect example was my recent DXB flight. However there is one cabin crew who if I find is assigned to our section of the cabin I will discreetly ask the FSM to change. It really is a case of three strikes and you are out

Originally posted by divemaster
Some people im sorry to say jsut have no manners just shows what there upbringing must have been like.

Agreed. Do you know there are even some people who would stoop so low as to post on this forum a Private Message they have received? Shocking behaviour, isn't it?

VITB - A nice way of ensuring lots of comment, well done.
Lets have some evidence of what you say? Why are your customer services department SO busy if it is all our fault?
I do not know how long you have been with VA but early days 86 - 96 good crew with nice personalitites and attitude, it was a pleasure to fly VA. 96 to present a different breed of staff, not interested in passengers only the high life and the stop-overs. Customers get in the way. i.e. Why no bar on overnight flights in "J", why pull the blinds asap on overnighters and tell customers off if they are raised too early, why no checks by staff in all classes after meal. Where do you all go?
I only mention the above so as to balance your totally negative comments out.
Steve

Originally posted by steve821
but early days 86 - 96 good crew with nice personalitites and attitude, it was a pleasure to fly VA. 96 to present a different breed of staff, not interested in passengers only the high life and the stop-overs. Customers get in the way.

I am not sure you could say this of all staff. I have to say I have had some really great staff on flights I have taken, some OK staff. Given the pay of VS staff, I think it may also be a little hard to support the assertion that they are in it for the high life.

Originally posted by steve821i.e. Why no bar on overnight flights in "J", why pull the blinds asap on overnighters and tell customers off if they are raised too early, why no checks by staff in all classes after meal. Where do you all go?

Sorry, but I don't recognise any of this. There has always been a bar on overnight flights I have been on; in fact it has often been complained about by people on this site as noisy drinkers keep them awake. I think most airlines try to encourage customers to keep the blinds down due to odd sunrise times. Again I have been woken by people putting up the blinds oblivious to the other passengers sleeping around them. As to staff checks, what about the soft drinks and ice cream that are normally bought round?