Hard Nose Virgin Holidays

Booked with Virgin Holidays flight and car hire back in January. The flight is in July, MAN to MCO, so £940 inc. per adult return.
Imagine how I feel when Virgin Atlantic send emails for the same time of year on the same flight using the "Miles and Money" offer for £950.60 for 2 adults+ 4000 miles. What a bargain!
Having flown with Virgin several times I rang Virgin Holidays to see if they could help in making me not feel so ripped off. Nobody wanted to know. Emailed ******* ********, customer services, Virgin holidays who gave me this predictable reply:-

"Thank you for your email and please accept our apologies for the late response. As you are probably aware, demand in the school holiday periods including July and August is often very high and most airlines including Virgin Atlantic will raise their airfares to help establish healthy competition with other airlines and holiday companies. As a result of this, package holiday prices will increase due to the higher airfares that airlines provide us with. I am sure you can appriaciate that it is in the interests of all holiday companies to make a profit and although this may mean increasing prices during the periods when there is very high demand, Virgin Holidays along with other holiday companies will always offer the best prices available to a customer and we are always looking at new ways to offer more competitive prices.
As you may see from looking at our brochures, the set prices are higher during peak holiday periods but we do have special offers to help us offer more competitive prices during the peak holiday periods. For example, in our current Florida brochure we have free child places available for April, June, July and September for all holidays to Orlando. Please be aware that these are subject to limited availability. Another example is kids from £299.00 in the school holidays for bookings made before 28 Feb 2006. There are many other offers like these in our brochures that help us offer more competitive prices during the peak holiday periods.
We can understand the points you have raised but we can assure you that Virgin Holidays will always provide our customers with the best prices available. You have mentioned that this will be your fourth visit to Orlando in July. If this is your third or more booking with Virgin Holidays, you can join our Frequent Virgin Club which will provide you with a range of benefits including a 10% discount on holiday packages. We can see that you are a loyal customer and as a company we appricate this greatly. If you have any further questions, please do not hestiate to contact us."

Yeah right. now please blow into a pile of dust and dont bother us anymore. You paid your money we've got it now bugger off.
Like I said hard nosed.[:(!]

{mcuth: moved to Virgin Holidays forum & removed staff member's name}

[preiffer]

Hi Toto, and welcome to the site [y]

Sadly, I'm afraid I can't see what the issue is. You made a booking, for a set price, and agreed to the terms that booking was made under.

A better offer has come along, but you're "stuck" with your existing "product". Kind of like when the car you bought is discounted the week after you drive it off the forecourt? (And I don't see many people demanding rebates from car showrooms post-purchase... [?])

[Nottingham Nick]

I agree with Paul here.

If you had seen that the holiday price had gone up after you booked it, would you have offered Virgin Holidays the extra money? [8D]

The timing of booking a holiday / flight is very frustrating. There is no easy answer, flights are sometimes cheaper 'last minute', but often they are dearer or sold out. [:(!]

Annoying, but 'That's Life!'

Nick

Crap. Try dealing for 3 hours on the phone with someone who hasn't quite grasped the english language sited in a part of the world where they most probably have never heard of Virgin.

Who are you anyway? Do you work for Virgin i.e. on their payroll?

[Nottingham Nick]

No, this site is totally independent of Virgin, and we often critical of their practices.

Very few people here are fans of the overseas call centre and, if you look back in the forum, you will see that Virgin Holidays gets quite a bit of stick. It also gets praise in other threads though.

I have never used Virgin Holidays, preferring to book direct with Virgin Atlantic, or whoever is offering the best deal.

I was merely commenting on your situation, as I assume that is what you were inviting people to do, by taking the trouble to post it.

Welcome to V-Flyer.

Nick

I booked a PE flight to MCO in feb in a "sale" a week later VS decide to have another "sale" and my flight is reduced by another £100, as much as it makes you angry, I booked my flight at what I thought was a fair price and entered into a contract with VS.- Hard cheese I am afraid!

There's nothing you can do - perhaps next time it will work the other way round for me, and you. After all Virgin are not a charity they are there to get the best price they can and make a profit!

Oh and you will find that everyone who works for Virgin will tell you they do, this is a very open forum!

To be perfectly honest this is the first time I have ever used VH. I have always used VA and have never once been disappointed, even after some amazing cock ups they always put it right. Even when I thought I was right and they thought they were right they made it good for me. So much so I booked again and again. But this time a different story, all because i used VH. As the previous answer from preiffer "I haven't had the car yet, never mind driven it off the forecourt, so yes I am complaining"

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
No, this site is totally independent of Virgin, and we often critical of their practices.

Very few people here are fans of the overseas call centre and, if you look back in the forum, you will see that Virgin Holidays gets quite a bit of stick. It also gets praise in other threads though.

I have never used Virgin Holidays, preferring to book direct with Virgin Atlantic, or whoever is offering the best deal.

I was merely commenting on your situation, as I assume that is what you were inviting people to do, by taking the trouble to post it.

Welcome to V-Flyer.

Nick

For God's sake all of you stop being British and shout your complaints. It's the only way anything will ever alter. We buy the tickets, we decide when and how to complain. Dont listen to these self appointed web masters who are obviously deeply in love with anything Virgin

Ok, toto, so you're not happy - I think we get that

However, I'd ask that you "hold the line" and not turn your unhappiness into a personal vendetta against either VH or the fellow members here. Whilst we welcome constructive criticism (which I think you've already given in your original post) and engage in civilised discussion, attempts to turn your displeasure into a "one-person war" will not be welcomed.

Cheers

Michael

Am I not correct in thinking that VH and VA are treated as two seperate companies, therefore, you probably won't get any joy from either,

Steve

Yes Steve, that is correct. Also IIRC SRB sold the virgin group in a public offering then bought it back a while later, prusumably at the last minute price.......

[Pete]

Another thing to factor into the price difference is a standard revenue fare (the VH ones) and what is essentially treated as a reward flight (MpM). It's comparing to very different fare codes, which will *always* be different. Full fare Economy (Y) for instance, can push over £1000 more expensive than a deeply discounted (N).

The other thing that shouldn't be ignored is that you'll earn miles with the VH fare, but only spend them with the MpM one. If you consider a mile to be worth about a 2p, then you're earning about £164 worth of miles on the two VH fares, and spending £80 on the MpMs. You don't breakout the car hire value in your post, but assuming you're there for a week, there's probably £200's worth of car hire & insurance in there at least. It's difficult to draw precise comparisons without all the details though.

Pete

toto,

I have previously lambasted VH over poor service and cock-ups on this very website and have had nothing but support from some of the "virgin lovers" you mention.

I think like most walks of life, the members here will support your point of view if he or she agrees with it, if they disagree with you then they will not.

Now, I can see why you're so angry but can't see what you can do to change the situation. As the saying goes... Sh1t happens.

Regards

John

Just seems like a case of tuff luck to me.

You are getting a car as well remember. oh and possibly more miles.

Get Over It! You booked a holiday andthen a sale came up.

If you had bought a sofa andthen it came up on sale 6 months later would you go and demand your money back?
If you had bought some clothes and then saw them in a sale would you want your money back?
No thought not!

I am a tour operator and wedo our best when things like this happen probably 1/2 the time we are successful but that is all to do with the wonderful consolidators we deal with.

FYI we have offers at the moment MAN - MCO and LGW MCO (As well as others) around £200 cheaper than they were earlier in the year.

The lesson to be learned is either book early and get the lowest fare you can or seeifa sale comes up for the dates you are travelling.
Oh And that VH dont always have the best deals! Us small independants can be fiercely competitve (we have to be!)

Hopefully one last word.
Yes I now fully understand that Virgin Holidays and Virgin Atlantic are 2 separate companies. So here is some advice for people that stumble across this forum hoping for the truth in helping them to buy/book a holiday.
For a guaranteed holiday itÕs less risky if you book with Virgin Atlantic. They have standards to keep as they are in competition with the worlds airlines. Usually if there is a problem they fix it in an adult manner. No stonewall no being messed about, just fixed. Obviously there will be some cases that donÕt satisfy.
Virgin Holidays on the other hand deal in general with the British public, and know they can get away with more. They are in competition with other British tour operators and as such the standards are a lot lower. View any travel program and confirm this.
There aim like Virgin Atlantic is to make profit. More effort is put into making a profit than making satisfied customers, even down to having cheap to run call centers in India. Something that Virgin Atlantic doesnÕt do, why? because the worldwide customers of Virgin Atlantic expect a certain standard and India isnÕt it.
So if there is a problem itÕs harder to fix and being put on hold, promised return calls, being passed from UK to India and back several times and eventually getting to talk to the promised Ôtop manÕ only to find he canÕt make decisions either, can be very frustrating..
In the previous letters other people who appear to police this ÔopenÕ forum try to calm situations like mine and other peoples rants. Forgive me but you appear to be very Virgin bios. Stories like mine should be a warning message to anyone thinking of booking with Virgin Holidays. As stated earlier yes they have to make a profit, but to be told by email they are making £907.60 profit just on 2 plane seats is very hard to swallow.
If this were France or USA the public wouldnÕt allow it to happen, forums like this wouldnÕt be so quick to point blame and people would vote with there feet.
I have learnt a lesson.

Im sure this isn't the first time this has happened and I'm sure it will not be the last.

I sympathise with your situation and we would all feel the same if we were in the same position - unfortunately its just one of those things and let me ask you this - if the price had gone up in the past year would you have expected VH to call you up and ask for the extra?

Dont forget that by making your booking when you did you guaranteed the dates and the times and the flights - it might be worth waiting until nearer the dates of travel to book but then you run the uncertainty of being able to travel on the dates you want.

Again - Im sorry about your predicament but sometimes sh*t happens.

Originally posted by toto
In the previous letters other people who appear to police this ÔopenÕ forum try to calm situations like mine and other peoples rants. Forgive me but you appear to be very Virgin bios. Stories like mine should be a warning message to anyone thinking of booking with Virgin Holidays. As stated earlier yes they have to make a profit, but to be told by email they are making £907.60 profit just on 2 plane seats is very hard to swallow.

In a forum such as this its important that there are moderators to make sure that post meet the t's and c's of the site - this applies to post content, use of language, layout, use of names, etc etc. However, to state that there is a Virgin Bias must be true because this site is all about Virgin - however, I believe you are implying that we all stick up for Virgin and they can do no wrong - that is simply untrue. There are many posts about poor service and lack of facilities and yes, there are posts which praise Virgin.

For example I had a big run in with the call centre and the internet booking system and I posted as such - on the other hand it was all sorted out and I gave praise for that.

So by all means criticise, rant and make your point - but also be prepared for others to disagree with you - thats the beauty of an "open forum"

My my so much anger in you, use the force toto!!!!

Yes this forum has a slight bias towards Virgin in general, lets face it this is a site for VIRGIN ENTHUSIASTS, you have to look for it to find it and it follows you must have an interest to even bother.

I have seen the THIS IS AN OPEN FORUM argument before, often used to
back up a yearning to SAY WHATEVER AND TUFF IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

In reality this open forum is created and paid for by its owner who allows you to openly use it in so far as certain guidelines are used which I guess includes "having a go" at the owners chosen mods and administrators.

If this was your attitude to the VH callcentre staff I have no wonder they put you on hold, they were probably hoping you might click your heals three times and go back home.

Basically you bought your ticket and thats that, but suffice to say I have heard many stories where people ( probably more polite and less demanding and hot headed ) HAVE had reductions applied to their bookings, the PE £50 offer being one such incidence.

If you go around with a loaded gun and start waving it at people, don't expect to go on their Christmas card list my friend.

Toto, understand fully how frustrating it is when this sort of thing happens. I'm sure if I cared to look around right now I'd find my flydrive to California cheaper. The bottom line though is that YOU have the choice, you can book early and guarantee the seats, hotels etc or you can leave it later, hope a sale offer comes up and strike lucky.

I booked back last September, I was happy with the price then as it was within the budget I wanted to spend..... As someone else had pointed out, if the price had gone up, would you have offered to pay back the difference?.

Prices on just about everything move up and down.... FMCG goods, mortgages, flights the list is endless. Put it down to experience and take the risk of booking a last minute deal next time. Just accept that you may not get your first choice.

This doesn't mean not raising a complaint, just be realistic in your expectations and ask yourself why VH should match the price. Would you do it if was your business?

I have no connection to any of the Virgin companies by the way. I've used VH many times though and never had an issue, so I for one keep going back.

Er Virgin Atlantic Call centre is in Mumbai after you have booked!

Independents offer great VS prices and amazing service!

Originally posted by toto
Hopefully one last word.
Something that Virgin Atlantic doesnÕt do, why? because the worldwide customers of Virgin Atlantic expect a certain standard and India isnÕt it.
So if there is a problem itÕs harder to fix and being put on hold, promised return calls, being passed from UK to India and back several times and eventually getting to talk to the promised Ôtop manÕ only to find he canÕt make decisions either, can be very frustrating..

Hi Toto,

I've just paid over £6K with VH for a holiday mext March, I could wait for specials but I know I may not get the availabilty that I want. This is my choice. If I have a bad experience they will know about it.

VS do have call centres in India, and each time I have called they have dealt with the matter professionally, even with my Scottish accent to cope with.

As you say you have learned a lesson, this is life sometimes.

Iain

Iain

Thanks Jon B. A reply that doesn't press my button. Thanks for the understanding.

Originally posted by Jon B
Toto, understand fully how frustrating it is when this sort of thing happens. I'm sure if I cared to look around right now I'd find my flydrive to California cheaper. The bottom line though is that YOU have the choice, you can book early and guarantee the seats, hotels etc or you can leave it later, hope a sale offer comes up and strike lucky.

I booked back last September, I was happy with the price then as it was within the budget I wanted to spend..... As someone else had pointed out, if the price had gone up, would you have offered to pay back the difference?.

Prices on just about everything move up and down.... FMCG goods, mortgages, flights the list is endless. Put it down to experience and take the risk of booking a last minute deal next time. Just accept that you may not get your first choice.

This doesn't mean not raising a complaint, just be realistic in your expectations and ask yourself why VH should match the price. Would you do it if was your business?

I have no connection to any of the Virgin companies by the way. I've used VH many times though and never had an issue, so I for one keep going back.

Not a comment as a Mod, but a personal one.

I do not believe this thread is going anywhere. Comments have been made with so much pasion and emotion that they would probably be regretted in the cool light of day. Toto has his view, and if he wishes to make a complaint about it to VH then that is of course his right. He asked for the opinion of members here, and has received their thoughts. Unless anyone has a new perspective to bring, I suggest we leave it.

Well said