PE Improvements

I know that every now and again we have these conversations but when do you think VS going to make some worthwhile improvements to the PE product?

This may not be an easy question to answer but one I think is worth asking it light of the lack of progress in this area for the last couple of years and the fact that some BA business class flights I've been looking at for later this year are slightly more expensive than PE.

Miopyk

I'm not sure what kind of improvements you mean (service, experience, etc.), but VS are in the process of trialing (?) their new PE seats.

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by VS-EWR
I'm not sure what kind of improvements you mean (service, experience, etc.), but VS are in the process of trialing (?) their new PE seats.

As the soon to be half-marathon runner Nich said, VS is 'trialing' new seats or did. I currently do not know how the process is going but I think economy is getting new seats. There have been a bunch of threads on this so search.

But here is a Link to some pictures of the news seats in a testing phase on an A346.

I must say, I am dissapointed which PE has to offer.

I admit I have yet to fly but I cant seem to justify the price of PE while compareing it to Econ.

Originally posted by londonguy
I must say, I am dissapointed which PE has to offer.

I admit I have yet to fly but I cant seem to justify the price of PE while compareing it to Econ.

I also find justifying splurging on PE "a challenge", but have done it on a couple of occasions on the return leg of holidays just to give a little lift before facing reality. You're basically paying for space and some (relative) peace and quiet. Lots of brownie points with teenage offspring also.

[Nottingham Nick]

IMHO, the acid test as to whether PE offers value for money, will always be the number of seats that go unsold.

At the moment, PE loads seem generally high, so VS have no real incentive to drastically reduce prices.

Nick

[Neil]

I'm prob in the minority in thinking that PE is a good service, somebody here told me before my first PE flight earlier this year that once I'd flown PE I would not want to go back to Y again, and its totally true.

I'm sure there are things that could be better (diff Menu just as 1 suggestion) but in the main you are paying for the extra leg room and wider seat and IMHO it is worth it, but it goes back to the same old choice of if you think the extras are worth it, for me they are, and I consider the flight as an important part of my holiday so am prepared to pay for a more comfortable experience.

Neil

[fozzyo]

I think PE is very much worth it when upstairs on a 747, a frequently made comment.

My parents recently flew PE on VS for the first time. There last trip was to Seattle in World Traveller Plus on BA. Compare those two products and then you really get an idea of how different PE is.

Mat xxx

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
IMHO, the acid test as to whether PE offers value for money, will always be the number of seats that go unsold.

At the moment, PE loads seem generally high, so VS have no real incentive to drastically reduce prices.

Never too sure whether high demand necessarily equates to Value for Money - I think it just means that there are enough people who do not want to fly economy and can afford PE. I also think the fact that it is the cabin that offers VS the highest profit margin is evidence that it is of lesser value for money that both Y and UC.

I do agree Nick that all the time it is running full there is less incentive to improve service or decrease costs. Hopefully the trend to increasing % of PE with the new 346s should begin to require VS to increase demand.

Phil

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by fozzyo
I think PE is very much worth it when upstairs on a 747, a frequently made comment.

My parents recently flew PE on VS for the first time. There last trip was to Seattle in World Traveller Plus on BA. Compare those two products and then you really get an idea of how different PE is.

Mat xxx

Matt could you expand on that a little,I fly both PE and WT+ and find them to be very similar,unless your counting the upstairs seats which is a way better place to be.

[fozzyo]

Its about the extra's you get that makes the difference. In terms of seats etc they are very similar, its the other stuff you get:

Dedicated checkin lines
Priority boarding
Welcome aboard drink of OJ / bubbles
Dedicated crew (on most craft)
First choice of meal
The offer of after dinner drink (avail in Y, offered in W)
Dedicated loo (depending on metal / location)
Priority disembarkation & luggage handling

Mat

[Scrooge]

Ok so pretty much the same.LAX has dedictaed check in lines for WT+.

Totally agree with Mat and have not flown Y for some time now - I personally believe that the extra space and service you get warrant the extra cost.

I am a B&S traveller and I do appreciate the fact that on the outbound there is more room and less people around and on the inbound that we can get to the airport knowing that there will be a comfortable seat in which to try and get a bit of sleep

I do think that the PE product has some variance though - in the 744 I belive that is the Premium PE seat - it really is like a separate aircraft - the seats downstairs are still a step up from Y but not IMHO the same - and then there is the PE experience on the 346 - which is again different. Im sure that those who fly regularly in UC might have similar views on the UC product and which aircraft it's on.

""Dedicated checkin lines

Depends on the route though - VH are doing some great deals to and from Orlando - I think they are realising that the Charter boys are catching up - but on the other routes its usually around £900 e/w for UC and about £300 for PE - and you also need to check out the brochure as often when the price of the holiday is high e.g. through the summer - then the UC price is lower and vice-versa

I don't much go with the "Value for money" criterea, most people use that as a measure of "As much as possible, for as little as possible"
which I don't equate to "Value for money".

In my mind the criterea is "can I afford this", "am I prepared to hand over the cash for this" if the answer is yes value for money doesn't come in to it.

Something ridiculously cheap or free is "good Value" or heavily discounted, if under normal circumstances the "real price" is usually higher.

Basically PE is expensive...full stop, thats the product and it comes with a price, if you don't want it, choose Economy.

A BMW is on average 40% more expensive than a similar car from a less prestigeous make, that doesn't make the cheaper one any better "value for money" if you really wanted the beemer.

""Basically PE is expensive...full stop thats the product and it comes w choose Economy."

[mcmbenjamin]

Well PE also offers in seat notebook power on the Airbus 340-642. This is a benefit to atleast one American firm that refuses to fly their employees in Business (Upper).

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
Well PE also offers in seat notebook power on the Airbus 340-642. This is a benefit to atleast one American firm that refuses to fly their employees in Business (Upper).

And on 744's with the new PE seats - Im sure someone out there could tell us which aircraft specifically if needs be!

Originally posted by londonguy
"Basically PE is expensive...full stop, thats the product and it comes with a price, if you don't want it, choose Economy."

I agree, im not trying to sound argumentative, I just feel that Virgin should offer more in PE rather than a bit more space, glass of champers and food first.

*edit* I do have the money to fly PE but I refuse to pay the extra just for the above. Im not rich, but im not poor either, I always look for value for money . Just my opinion .

I've always found the separate check in for PE worth a few extra quid, considering the queues there always seem to be in economy.

Another way of making me part with my cash for PE is to fly the 747 to my destination and seat me upstairs[y]

When I first started flying Virgin 7 years ago it was in economy and there I remained until 2003! I personally feel that I get what I pay for when flying PE. It all comes down to personal choice and affordability:D

To clarify the original question, there doesn't seem to have been much innovation with the PE product in the last couple of years and I think it's widely accepted that the competition has not only caught up but started to better it.

I've been checking some flights to the Windies later this year and I can get Business Class with BA for a couple of hundred quid more that the cheapest PE ticket.

My point is that the PE product is starting to look less value for money than it used to and a bit stale so what can VS do to reverse this trend?

That's it in a nutshell

Miopyk

[quote]Originally posted by londonguy
"Basically PE is expensive...full stop, thats the product and it comes with a price, if you don't want it, choose Economy."

I agree, im not trying to sound argumentative, I just feel that Virgin should offer more in PE rather than a bit more space, glass of champers and food first.

An oft voiced point of view and one that I agree with. But, let's face it, they're making shedloads of money, so they ain't about to change nothing......[:(!]

[Decker]

and in fairness the current Club World prices are SERIOUSLY discounted.

Right now, I'd say that Air New Zealand's Premium Economy offering has the edge on VS, and is probably the gold standard that others can aspire to.

While the jury may still be out on whether the ANZ or VS seats are better (the VS ones are slightly bigger), the ANZ cabin service is superior, with guaranteed laptop power, and some service elements carried across from business class - they share the same premium bar selection, same premium cheeseboard, and same help-yourself mid-flight snacks.

Cheers,
Mike

Originally posted by Decker
and in fairness the current Club World prices are SERIOUSLY discounted.

True, but how often is VS also seriously discounted? Not often ... nor is UC in response to the CW offerings ... so BA is increasingly a serious alternative given the pain of change.