Demise of Virgin Standards - What to do!!

""...and to comply to with safety regulations a certain number of crew must remain on duty!"

Yes they has to be a certain number of crew on duty this is worked out with how many doors there are and also the amount of customers onboard

I have read the original post and thought.."hmm, concise and well presented"

Having read through some of the subsequent posts, notwithstanding the crew rest times/legal requirements etc, there appears to be a well grounded thread appearing with regards to the quality of service on this route. Call me cynical, but is this because the route has a very high percentage of holidaymakers, the B&S brigade?

I may be wrong, however there seems to be a growing feeling that the expectation of delivery and the actual service are moving further apart. From a business point of view, and again this has been touched on, if you over promise but under deliver you are heading for long term problems.

Here's where I come to my personal angle... I am flying this route in late September for the first time with VS. I am treating my pensioner parents to their first, and probably last holiday in the good old US of A. For the past 6 years I have flown a charter B&S carrier (won't mention the name) and, to be fair, have in all but one flight, had a pleasant experience in both economy and 'premiair gold' (the latter being very comfortable with more drinks than the loos could handle!)

We believe that the holiday starts and finishes at the airport; I booked Virgin on their reputation for service, friends and colleagues recommendations, certainly not the price, as I want my parents to have the best experience I can afford for them.

You can probably understand my growing concerns, somebody please tell me that this type of occurrence is rare![:0]

I think I'll just go and sit in the sun. [8D]

the laceys

There's a happy end to the day. Hopefully drink in hand?

[mitchja]

Originally posted by droflet
Call me cynical, but is this because the route has a very high percentage of holidaymakers, the B&S brigade?

It's not just B&S routes as I saw evidence of this on my recent SYD-HKG flight. Not an over-night flight so I didnt sleep and still very very few OJ/water rounds (in fact a complete lack of crew visability during most of the flight except during the 2 meal services)

On all 4 of my VS Y flights the only time I saw the FSM was when he/she walked through the Y cabin to get to the crew rest area.

Regards

To the originator of this thread, good on you this sort of service has been occuring across most of the fleet, I have recorded posts very recently about the same things but a lot of members/readers support the airline like lemmings, this is probably due to the fact that they take all the points that their employers gladly give them and do not wish to upset anyone. The paying public like us should stand up and be counted.
I hope you get something for your efforts and the BAD service you recieved. By the way did you tell them what you wanted. A refund and compensation would be good in a month say.
Steve

Originally posted by thelaceys

In reply to the snoozing thing. I never go to sleep on my flights, ........ I'm quite sure I didn't miss any drinks runs, they simply didn't materialise.[|)]:D

Nor me, not because I won't but because no matter how hard I try, I can't. That's how I know I didn't 'miss' any water/juice runs. BTW the present Mrs Treelo always manages a good 3 or 4 hours but when asked, replies that she was 'only dozing. [ii]

[preiffer]

Originally posted by steve821
I have recorded posts very recently about the same things but a lot of members/readers support the airline like lemmings, this is probably due to the fact that they take all the points that their employers gladly give them and do not wish to upset anyone.

What utter rubbish.

If you'd care to search through the site, you'll find an array of mixed opinions of VS. I dislike some aspects of their service, and enjoy others. I travel for work during my own time, and do not expect the company to re-imburse me for this - a "reward" for doing this is the allocation of FC miles to my account (as per the terms and conditions of FC).

If you read them, you'll note that your claims of collecting miles for your company on your employees behalf is actually against the T's and C's of the scheme, so I would suggest you're the one that should keep quiet about such practices so as "not to upset anyone"


(PS - Might be worth investigating FlyingCo. as has been suggested - a slightly more legitimate way for an employer to gain from the tickets they buy)

Originally posted by steve821
I have recorded posts very recently about the same things, but a lot of members/readers support the airline like lemmings. This is probably due to the fact that they take all the points that their employers gladly give them and do not wish to upset anyone.

Rather an odd comment given that this thread is entitled "Demise of Virgin Standards" and is all about how rotten Virgin is becoming. It should also be noted that:
a) the subject has not received any moderation even though the site is aimed at "fans" of virgin. Thus any implication that the site moderation is bias would clearly be incorrect.
b) The queue of people stepping up, from this vast ocean of biased VS fans that you seem to believe visit this site, to defend VS or rubbish the OP seems to be notably absent.
b) it seems to be a not uncommon theme on this site to criticise VS for reducing standards, cost cutting/penny pinching and spinning. As such this sort of thread is far from unusual.

Quite how you have managed to decide that members are frightened of talking negatively about VS because this will translate into unspecified people getting upset is a leap of logic I cannot follow at all. Also I fail to see how it is "a fact" that people here take points from their employers. Airlines award people points which may be for business related travel or personal travel. Your implication seems to be that greedy members of V-Flyer are on some sort of gravy train. If that is your point of view, fair enough - you are entitled to it. However you have started another thread on that topic here so I would think it better to have that debate in that thread rather than hijacking this thread to make the point again. As such, if members wish to comment on that part of Steve821's post can I ask they make their points in the other thread, so that we keep this one on the OP's original point.

Sorry to say thelaceys experience regarding service level is similar to mine on the VS401 on Friday (and mentioned briefly in another post). Whilst I appreciate that staff need scheduled breaks this has to be balanced against customer/passenger safety and comfort -as I have reported in another post a large number of the crew on friday disappeared down to the crew rest area fairly early on into the flight (and I was sitting in 41c so was watching eagle eyed)and there they stayed .For most of the flight.There were no water/juice runs at all (and my eyes never closed so I didn't simply miss them) and when I went and found a crew member (who wasn't downstairs)and suggested passengers being offered water/juice I was told I could go to the back galley and help myself!Great but what about people who couldn't (like the disabled passenger sitting just behind me)?
There were several other examples of poor service level on the flight (such as an item I requested from the duty- free cart being forgotten when I was told that the item was being brought from another cart).Much huffing and puffing ensued when I(gently) reminded the crew member several hours later that i was still waiting for the item.Afternoon tea was very rushed( possibly because it was served just after most of the cabin crew re-appeared and not that long before landing?).
As mitchja has said the FSM was conspicious by her absence throughout the flight-the only time I clapped eyes on her was very early on when she came back to ask a passenger to complete a questionnaire regarding the flight.I do hope the comments the passenger (me!)wrote will be noted as I was pretty scathing about the exodus of staff to the bowels of the aircraft and the shoddy service level.
All in all a rather disappointing experience (and VS used to be so good in Y)and I will be contacting customer services to air my concerns.

Does anyone know if the dark side does dissapearing crew routines eastbound, it seems to happen lots recently on VA and the crew do appear less approachable and friendly to the point of rudeness.

I say this from experience rather than conjecture, am still a VA fan though[}:)]

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Does anyone know if the dark side does dissapearing crew routines eastbound, it seems to happen lots recently on VA and the crew do appear less approachable and friendly to the point of rudeness.

I say this from experience rather than conjecture, am still a VA fan though[}:)]

Don't know EGG but my next jaunt will be with them so it will be interesting to compare service levels and attitude of staff towards passengers.I too am still a virgin fan but I've had a couple of not so satisfactory experiences in the past few years (including in UC)and it seems as allways that it's the unsatisfactory experiences that stick in the mind rather than the satisfactory ones (well in my case anyway).

[mitchja]

Julie

Make sure you inform customer relations about your flight. I have regarding one of my VS Y flights recently. The only way things will change is if people give VS feedback.

On the subject of VS crew rest. It does amaze me when you see a handful of crew stripping the J cabin of any remaining duvets and pillows then storming through the W and Y cabin to get to the rest area. Yes OK some people wonÕt be aware what the crew are doing but others will.

Question for the crew - why can't pillows and duvets be pre-loaded into the crew rest area before take-off rather than you taking ones from the J cabin. I've only ever seen the crew taking pillows etc from the cabin on VS flights [:?]

I've nothing at all against the crew taking their designated rest breaks but I think it could be done in a much better, more professional looking way.

Regards

Originally posted by mitchja


Question for the crew - why can't pillows and duvets be pre-loaded into the crew rest area before take-off rather than you taking ones from the J cabin. I've only ever seen the crew taking pillows etc from the cabin on VS flights [:?]

I but I think it could be done in a much better, more professional looking way.

I do agree it looks very unprofessional at times and there should be better ways of doing things, On routes where crew rest is a requirement to extend Flight Duty Period (FDP) the cleaners will often load items into the rest area... However sometimes only 1 x economy pillow per bunk.. Now if you could imagine lying and sleeping on a UCS with an economy pillow you would appreciate how uncomfortable this is (especially as many UC customers request extra pillows.)

At this point many of the v-flyers who travel in economy are asking what is wrong with the Y pillow? well sitting upright with a small pillow behind you is not the same as lying on a hard flat surface with such a small pillow behind your head.

Going back to the question... also there is often 1 pilllow per bunk for both sets of breaks... would you want to share a pillow after somones head has sweated and dribbled on it?

And on these routes where rest is required its so the crew are rested to be alert for safety duties when they land...you wouldnt want a limo driver who was nodding of at the wheel so why have a safety personel on a aircraft doing the same?

Originally posted by mitchja
Julie

Make sure you inform customer relations about your flight. I have regarding one of my VS Y flights recently. The only way things will change is if people give VS feedback.

On the subject of VS crew rest. It does amaze me when you see a handful of crew stripping the J cabin of any remaining duvets and pillows then storming through the W and Y cabin to get to the rest area. Yes OK some people wonÕt be aware what the crew are doing but others will.

I'll certainly be doing that James (and incidentally I put my contact details on the "questionnaire" but I doubt if I will be asked for any further clarification about my comments which as I say were pretty scathing but objective I hope).The other problem was that it wasn't a handful it was seven crew (including IFBT so I hope nobody missed out on a treatment) and all pretty much simultaneosly.And they were down there a long long time.

Well here it is!! I'll give Virgin their due, I posted a letter to them on 19th June and this morning I have received a reply.

The bare bones, jist of it are:-

SORRY you were disappointed

SORRY the IFE didn't work but we don't have to provide it and we have an exceptionally high reliability rate

SORRY you didn't get drinks (perhaps they had run out) we make announcements after meals have been served that you may help yourself from the galley area (I've never ever heard that!)

SORRY you didn't see any cabin crew around, but they are entitled to breaks!

SORRY the inflight service was rushed at breakfast maybe the crew were new

SORRY the check in queue was unacceptably long

SORRY the aircraft cabin was not clean

and then.....

It is our intention to deliver a memorable experience for all our passengers (At this point I nearly fell off my chair laughing, it was certainly that[:o)])

As a gesture of goodwill heres 10,000 Flying Club points each but seen as your daughter has no account we will split those between the two of you

Well looking at this its a SORRY state isn't it, I really don't know what to think, but Virgin are what was it, oh yes SORRY!!! so that makes it all OK![V]

thelaceys

Whilst its a requirement, it's too easy to say sorry isn't it - you can say it a hundred times but its still isn't going to make things or make you feel any better.

In these situations you need to feel that the service provider is "genuinely" apologetic and that they really do value you as a customer - the way to do this is with the action they take in response!

I don't want to sound overly cynical (perish the thought!) but recent communications from customer services have seemed to rely heavily on boilerplate and deferring to other departments.

I do recall that I never got much of an apology any time I complained about food, just "your comments have been passed to our catering manager" and so on. I would feel much better if customer services could say that they passed the comments on and then outlined the response received.

Of course, I'd never refuse the free miles (despite rarely being able to use them these days!) but after hearing the same stuff the third or fourth time it would be nice to know that service comments actually had some effect.

BC

We will not of course refuse the free air miles they will come in useful one way or another, but what I will do is wait now because we know other passengers who were on our flight with exactly the same set of concerns who posted their letter last week.

Our miles equate to £50 each if we use them as we usually do for vouchers against our next flight (assuming we fly Virgin that is) so if the other passengers get any more than this,(they are not Flying Club members), I will want to know why!!

Originally posted by milehigh
On routes where crew rest is a requirement to extend Flight Duty Period (FDP) the cleaners will often load items into the rest area... However sometimes only 1 x economy pillow per bunk.. Now if you could imagine lying and sleeping on a UCS with an economy pillow you would appreciate how uncomfortable this is (especially as many UC customers request extra pillows.)

That's an awful way to treat your staff. I'm amazed they don't provide a bedding bale per crew member on flights that require mandated rest periods.

Mike

Originally posted by thelaceys
Well here it is!! Sorry! Airmiles

What's the term...being fobbed off ?

Did they give any indication of the reasons ? From me it might carry more weight if they'd said..."it was like this because of and that was out of our control (or) we are doing to address the situation"

I sent a simular letter to VS in late 2003, expressing my disappointment in certain asspect of the service (I may have posted them on here at the time- but wont get into them again.) and the result was 50k of free miles- which of course have now been used! I too was a little disappointed by the response...though I guess it was better than nothing. It seems 50k of miles is the standard response to Y pax.

Geez I would be extatic about 50K miles in exchange for a complaint.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by willd
It seems 50k of miles is the standard response to Y pax.

50,000 miles is far from a 'standard response'. It's a Y round trip to MCO, the West Coast or the Caribbean.

Nick

[Scrooge]

50k is way over the norm for a Y complaint,heck way over the norm for a W or J complaint when it comes down to it.