Demise of Virgin Standards - What to do!!

[Decker]

I'm guessing the OP meant 5K.

Originally posted by Decker
I'm guessing the OP meant 5K.

I hope the OP did mean 5k or VS are getting a very stiff letter from me concerning being short changed . What a shame that the "price tag" of compensation seems to have stuck (as I seem to remember us suggesting on this board about a year ago).

[Neil]

Sorry if this comes across wrong, its really not meant to, but....

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy with thelaceys, I must say that there is not too much Virgin can do apart from say sorry and offer Miles. Its an after event situation and to be honest, apart from a full refund (never going to happen) I doubt whatever VS said in there letter would be thought of as acceptable.

Also, I think its a little unfair on VS that there full reply letter was not posted, whilst not doubting how the main points of the letter were put across, it can be very easy just to point out the negatives of the letter, after all we got the full unedited version on the original letter to VS, so why not the full reply?

Please don't think Im on the VS side, but just believe people can sometimes become over negative on an issue and thats is a little unfair. What do people think VS should have said in the reply?

Anyway Im sure thats enough from me for now
Neil:)

Originally posted by thelaceys

As a gesture of goodwill heres 10,000 Flying Club points each but seen as your daughter has no account we will split those between the two of you

Well looking at this its a SORRY state isn't it, I really don't know what to think, but Virgin are what was it, oh yes SORRY!!! so that makes it all OK![V]

thelaceys

I sympathise with your situation and clearly the experience you had with VS was far from acceptable.
I think the letter you wrote was well worded and generally good [b]however[b/] you didn't specify what you wanted to remedy the situation. Therefore it's hard for VS to give you something you find agreeable - after all, the events have happened and can't be changed.

The best thing to do with any complaint is to state, as specifically as possible, what it is you want the company to do to make things better.

'I think its a little unfair on VS that there full reply letter was not posted, whilst not doubting how the main points of the letter were put across, it can be very easy just to point out the negatives of the letter, after all we got the full unedited version on the original letter to VS, so why not the full reply?'

Neil, Point taken, however the letter was three pages long and believe me there were no positives in the letter anywhere just lots of sorry, bad luck and here's some miles, and early on in the thread there was an issue about reproducing verbatim replies, so I didn't.

It's the frustration that Virgin did not even try to offer any assurances that these poor standards were not going to continue. This is all that I did actually request as I guessed that I would probably get miles anyway.

The letter from VS did finish up saying and I quote:-

'Whilst I am unable to undo your experiences on this occasion, we would very much welcome the opportunity of regaining your confidence in our services'

That's fine, so I travel Virgin Atlantic again and hopefully everything will be hunky dorey, but will it, judging by the posts of numerous other replies, it's doubtful, we will see because I know that I will give them another chance, once a Virgin Flying Club member always a Virgin Flying Club member

thelaceys

[Neil]

The beauty of an open forum like this is that you get every possible side of the story, and Im sure most people have had both good and bad VS experience's. Whilst you had a bad VS experience, my 1st two have been fantastic and has made me hooked on them - all I would say is that 1 bad apple doesn't spoil the batch! (or some old saying like that, can't quite remember but Mum says it a lot:D)

Of course its your decision, but everybody deserves a second chance, don't they?[?]

Neil:)

[quote]Originally posted by Attitude23
The beauty of an open forum like this is that you get every possible side of the story, and Im sure most people have had both good and bad VS experience's. Whilst you had a bad VS experience, my 1st two have been fantastic and has made me hooked on them - all I would say is that 1 bad apple doesn't spoil the batch! (or some old saying like that, can't quite remember but Mum says it a lot:D)

Of course its your decision, but everybody deserves a second chance, don't they?[?]

Neil:)

The problem Neil, is that it's not just second chance in some cases but fourth or fifth or more.When VS get it right it's fantastic but when they don't it can be lousy.The basic product (be it customer service,in flight service etc) needs to be consistent for near enough 100% of the time and this unfortunately is not the case at present.Passengers will be forgiving up to a point, after which they will simply contemplate switching to another carrier (and in some cases walk away).

So was it 50k miles or 5?, if its 50k thats a free round trip which translates to me as a big sorry and give us another chance on us.

I would be overjoyed personally

[Neil]

The problem with consistency is that you are relying on Human's to provide a big part of the service (ie Cabin Crew/Ground Staff) etc, and I think it in almost impossible for a Human to be consistant all of the time, everybody has good days/bad days (for whatever reason), different personalities etc etc - and I think to expect near perfection is wrong because you will be let down.

From what I have experienced first hand and read on here an other sites, on all Airlines, not just VS, people have good experiences and people have bad, this is almost always due to numerous different factors, but I am sure that not one of us here has been satisfied with every single flight we have taken, it just doesn't happen, I would call it a fact of life

Neil

Originally posted by Attitude23
The problem with consistency is that you are relying on Human's to provide a big part of the service (ie Cabin Crew/Ground Staff) etc, and I think it in almost impossible for a Human to be consistant all of the time, everybody has good days/bad days (for whatever reason), different personalities etc etc - and I think to expect near perfection is wrong because you will be let down.

Neil

I can see what you are driving at Neil but I disagree with you. We run 150 staff restaurants across the UK and consistency is exactly what we are looking for - and to achieve this we train, we monitor, we assess, we re-train, we praise when its required we chastise when its required - and eventually you get consistency.

The excellent team member will always put in a good performance even when they themselves might be feeling below - par - if someone cannot rtheir job function in the way that is required then its better not having them in a customer facing position.
And we are talking about people who are serving food which might cost £3.00

Now transfer that to VS where customers can pay £00's or £000's and then I believe that consistency of service should ba achieved with the team that Virgin has - recruitment and on the job processes should ensure that we, the paying customer get the service we have paid for and that it at the very least meets our expectations.

Im sure that VS, like any customer facing business makes decisions about the calibre of its staff and their ongoing position in the company based upon their performance.

It would be interesting one day for someone who goes through the training process to outline what is required and what is then monitored.

I completely agree Mark.The process you refer to happens in most organisations providing any form of customer service (be it the NHS, fast food outlets etc etc) I do not expect "perfection"- contrary to popular belief I live in the real world.Perfection and consistency are simply not the same variable IMHO.

The crew rest situation is 100% the decision of the FSM, if i recall correctly none of the USA flights have a requirement for a sleeping crew rest period. Obviously the crew getting a few hours sleep on these sectors should be a benefit to both customer service & safety of the passengers, sadly it sounds to be not the case this time.

As for the general service this is down to the happiness & attitude of the cabin team on the day. A team led by a decent FSM & experienced CSS's will make a major difference. The crew are constantly assesed on their performance & in theory this should help provide an improved, consistant cabin service.

[Neil]

I do not disagree with any of the points made by you Mark, but am sure that some of your staff will have "off days" and that not every customer will leave satisfied everytime, I think if we are all honest, we would not have had the same service from the same shop/restaurent/airline/bank.... everytime and will at some point of left unhappy/disapointed.

My main reason for posting was that thelaceys, after one bad VS experience felt that the whole VS standard was lowering, and whilst I am not questioning there right to complain to VS, I wonder how many of us actually contact VS after a good experiece (me included). It is all to easy to feel hard done to, and if its not right then it needs addressing, but this is a constant battle through life, not just with VS!

I hope people don't think I am siding with VS, when only trying to point out how easy it is to just concentrate on the negative, something that this post seemed to be doing (and before you shout at me, I know there are lots of posts praising VS too!)

Neil



(I am a nice guy really [B)])

Originally posted by Denzil

As for the general service this is down to the happiness & attitude of the cabin team on the day. A team led by a decent FSM & experienced CSS's will make a major difference.

This is the bit that should not make any difference - the FSM is being paid by the compnay to do a job - and part of that job is ensuring that the tasks required are carried out and that they are carried out in the correct manner.

e.g.

"coat" and no smile and then hung up

or "could I hang your coat up sir" and smile

same task - same end result - totally different level of service!!

Originally posted by MarkJ
"coat" and no smile and then hung up

Someone actually said that to you? Really?

The point about a good FSM is a real one - I can really notice the difference when I'm flying with a top-notch FSM, and can tell when I'm flying with a sloppy one, or one who can't work well with their crew.

This TR shows what a difference a good crew with a good FSM, who went the extra mile, can really make.

Cheers,
Mike

Originally posted by mike-smashing

Originally posted by MarkJ
"coat" and no smile and then hung up

Someone actually said that to you? Really?

No - was just using that as an example.

[mitchja]

Originally posted by mike-smashing

Originally posted by MarkJ
"coat" and no smile and then hung up

Someone actually said that to you? Really?


Cheers,
Mike

Mike

I actually got something very similar off a FSM when I flew in Y the other week. I got something along the lines of 'I suppose you want me to hang this up for you then?' as I'd left my jacket hanging on the seat in front of me with my BC tucked under the collar. I trully felt like saying something like 'well yes as I'm a gold Flying Club member - that's the very least you can do'

I didnt and wouldn't actually say that though as I'm not that type of demanding person.

Regards

Sometimes a reply of
"well if it wouldnt be too much trouble"
or
" no its OK you show me where and I will do it"

goes down a treat!![:w]

[mitchja]

Mark

That was indeed the type of reply the FSM got off me.

Regards

Originally posted by mitchja
Mark

That was indeed the type of reply the FSM got off me.

Regards

Top one James[oo][oo][oo]

'well yes as I'm a gold Flying Club member - that's the very least you can do', would go down really well, you may make the airline lot's of money (or if your company pays, they do), but you don't own it!!!!

Seriously though, in my experience you could tell within 2 minutes of getting on the aircraft what the FSM was like. It's not just being sloppy or slack, it's all about personality. You don't have to rule the cabin like Hitler to get the job done.

The VS thing is to not be "yes sir" or "no sir", if you want that you'd fly with BA, it's to make travel fun & enjoyable. Sure "J" class punters bring in lots of cash, but how many of those down in "Y" could be the "J" class punter of the future???

Originally posted by MarkJ
"could I hang your coat up sir" and smile

This is exactly what the flight attendant on Singapore Airlines asked me and I wasn't even expecting it (in economy class). [y] Some FAs even go further to help you stow away your hand luggage even if you look quite capable of doing it yourself. [y] Now that's what I call true service.

[mitchja]

Originally posted by Denzil
'well yes as I'm a gold Flying Club member - that's the very least you can do', would go down really well, you may make the airline lot's of money (or if your company pays, they do), but you don't own it!!!!

Like I said in my original post I didn't or wouldn't say that to anyone on-board. I've been brought up better than that.

Regards

Originally posted by Attitude23
I wonder how many of us actually contact VS after a good experiece (me included). It is all to easy to feel hard done to, and if its not right then it needs addressing, but this is a constant battle through life, not just with VS!
Neil



(I am a nice guy really [B)])

I once did this and got a "thank you" phone call from SRB's office.

I always send an email to customer services giving praise and naming names after a good flight - and I include my flying club membership number - maybe it has no effect but ona couple of occasions on the next fligth we went on we were upgraded - so it cannot do any harm I guess[y]