Sombody Shoot MBNA before it's too late.

I found an odd transaction on my credit card today. It was from a hotel in Abu Dhabi that I last stayed in over 3 months ago. Yet it was charged to my account 3 weeks ago, and it was a very significant amount. I immediately rang MBNA to report this as although it is most likely a mistake by the hotel, it maybe (at a push) fraud. I was told that MBNA can tell me nothing about the transaction, the queried transaction department is closed and that I should ring back on Monday (he also said that it will be busy so expect a long wait). I said that this was amazing and did they not take fraud seriously. So he put me on hold for a moment. 10 minutes later he returns and tells me he has cancelled my card! For one isolated transaction, which is probably just a mistake, with no investigation because the relevant department is closed, this seems a little excessive. To add insult to injury he says I still have to ring back on Monday to start the investigation off. I asked, but there was no chance of him taking the details and passing them on to the relevant department. So, they expect me to wait for their damn switch board twice to report a potential fraud on their company!

I have been on and on at MBNA about the interest they charge me, but no one has ever been able to explain it to me. Every month I get charged an "estimated interest" even though I pay on the button. Never do I get a credit for overpayment of interest though. On my other credit cards I pay by the due date and never get charged any interest, so MBNA's method is totally beyond my ken!

And then there is getting hold of them. As we all know, you end up waiting on the end of the line for an eternity for someone to answer [n]. And they have no email addresses on the website at all. Anyone would think they are working at the begining of the last century!

So I have written to MBNA to complain about their appauling fraud/query policy and accused them of not taking credit card fraud seriously (as evedenced by them not having a 24/7 team dealing with it). I have copied the letter to VS as it is a VS branded card.

Sorry for the rant, but I am really fed up.[:#]

My sympathies Jeremy, customer service like that really does my head in - why do companies think the world stops at the weekend?? What if you were about to use that credit card to pay for some major purchase that was going to credit you miles etc - and now you are unable to do so?[:(!][V]

And of course - the "weird" transaction will be preying on your mind as I am sure you will be running things round and round in your head with all the "what if's" and "did /didn't I"[?][?]

Keep your chin up mate and I am sure it will get sorted -just a shame it isnt sorted NOW!!!![:?]

Am very sorry to hear of your woes Jeremy. Mr cat had a similar problem a couple of years ago and the same thing happened, although the team was very sympathetic. We also discovered the fraudulent items on a Saturday and got straight on to MBNA - they cancelled his card (though they did tell him they'd do so) and said we had to call the fraud dept on Monday. Mr cat says he felt like a total criminal when he did call the fraud dept - why is it that the innocent are made to feel as though they've done something wrong?

Have they put the amount into suspense? That's the very least I'd expect them to have done, so you won't attract any charges on it?

In my letter, I basicly said that the letter was notice that I considered my responsibilities to inform discharged, and therefore they must instantly recredit the amount to my account. I offered all cooperation, but only in writing - i.e. all cooperation short of hanging on the end of the phone waiting for someone to answer. I also added that I reject all liablity for the charge until it is proved I signed the bill, so I would not be paying even if they did not credit.

Basicly the whole Mr Angry.

Originally posted by sailor99
In my letter, I basicly said that the letter was notice that I considered my responsibilities to inform discharged, and therefore they must instantly recredit the amount to my account. I offered all cooperation, but only in writing - i.e. all cooperation short of hanging on the end of the phone waiting for someone to answer. I also added that I reject all liablity for the charge until it is proved I signed the bill, so I would not be paying even if they did not credit.

Basicly the whole Mr Angry.

I thought that if you queried a transaction he cc company were obliged to remove the charge from the account until such a time that they could prove a legitimate charge was being levied. I've done that a few times with my cc (tesco / rbs) and they've always been exemplary in their service in that respect.

They also seem to be on the ball about fraud - any out of ordinary spending on my card tends to generate a call from the cc company asking me to confirm that I am indeed making the purchase in question.

Paul

The one time I queried an overseas transaction they cancelled my card immediately after informing me that they were going to take that course of action.

My card issuer (the one I am keeping for backup when the VS Amex is not accepted), i.e. HSBC / First Direct is very on the ball when it comes to fraud.

I have had them call me on more than a few occasions when an "out of the ordinary" transaction has appeared on my account to ask if it was indeed me who made the transaction. When they cannot get hold of me by phone, they send a text to my mobile asking me to call them.

Again, when a dodgy transaction did go through on my card, they were great. The amount was immediately put into dispute & when the merchant's bank could not provide a signed receipt for the transaction (in the USA, so no Chip N Pin) they cancelled my card [having told me they would do so] and I had the new card within a week.

For a major credit card issuer like MBNA to have a Card Fraud team that only works Mon-Fri is not good at all. Fraudsters work 24/7 [as a guess].

[buns]

Jeremy

This is unbelieveable[:(!]

As you will only be to well aware, not every culture around the world stops working on a Saturday and Sunday

I hope you manage to square things up when the world starts again on Monday[:w]

buns

Essentially, I think you are all correct. I am reliably informed fraudsters do work 24/7, and while I am sure this isolated transaction is just a mistake it should still have been investigated with all haste. To be fair to MBNA they have been pretty on the ball spotting unusual spending patterns and contacting me about it. This happened after my card was cloned in South Africa, and resulted in my card been stopped very quickly. I cannot remember if this was a weekday or the weekend though [:0];).
I understand your point about removing queried transactions is correct. However in the S.A. incident I just mentioned, the transactions hung around for a couple of months while they sorted everything out. I ended up paying interest during that time, but couldn't be bothered to fight it. So this time, I have written the letter, demanded removal of the transactions, and enclosed the cut up shreds of my card along with the letter.
I would love to paste the letter here. However, I will give MBNA a chance to respond first.

Originally posted by Kraken
My card issuer (the one I am keeping for backup when the VS Amex is not accepted), i.e. HSBC / First Direct is very on the ball when it comes to fraud.

I have had them call me on more than a few occasions when an "out of the ordinary" transaction has appeared on my account to ask if it was indeed me who made the transaction. When they cannot get hold of me by phone, they send a text to my mobile asking me to call them.


For a major credit card issuer like MBNA to have a Card Fraud team that only works Mon-Fri is not good at all. Fraudsters work 24/7 [as a guess].

My son has has a couple of bad experiences with HSBC - both involved relatively minor amounts not down to him, but both times he spent what seemed like hours, on several occasions (to India) without them either resolving it or putting the items into suspense. Eventually, I spoke to my nephew, who is a manager at HSBC and who used to work in credit cards too - he sorted it out in about 2 seconds flat, as well as confirming that protocol is to immediately suspend th amounts in question.

But what a pain to have to do this, and not everyone has a family member in such a position. My son has since ditched HSBC and got - a Virgin card. I'm wondering if that was such a wise move!

At the time I spoke of above, mr cat asked just why it hadn't rung alarm bells somewhere that 3 transactions were made on the same day, in the same place, and for 3 large amounts (the total was aroun £8,000) - the reply he got was that these checks are random - I find that totally unacceptable - these were done in the south of Franace for white goods - but surely, it should have flagged up that this was, at the very least, an unusual pattern of spending? I know that I would have no problem at all if I were contacted to ask if I were indeed spendning, but I do have a problem with what seems to be indifference...

OK, soapbox going away now! [:#]

Do you know, your comments prompted a thought in my mind. I had another look at my statement on line as this has the times of transactions on. At 11:15Z I 'used' the card in Abu Dhabi (this is the odd transaction as I was not in AD at the time). At 15:42Z I then used the card to get cash in New Mexico. Given it would take about 18 hours to fly between the two places, you would have thought that something about 2 transaction happening on opposite sides of the world within a few hours of each other would have prompted their comuter to spit out a warning - or maybe it was the weekend and the computer was down on the beach!

Fact of the day - HSBC will, without investigation, write off any disputed credit card transaction £10 or under.

Given the fact that so much stuff is written into software, surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility that unusual spending patterns flag up somewhere? I've had a couple of occasions when buying currency (not with a credit card, I hasten to add!) where my switch card has been refused. Actually, both times have been with Marks and Spencer, and staff there have flatly refused to query why it's been declined. After talking to my bank and them being flummoxed (what a word) as to why it's been refused, they confirm that, in fact, the message traders get in such situations isn't a declined message, but a 'refer to bank' one. Seems they just won't or don't do it. Could have saved me a lot of aggravation - and them too, ultimately, since I refused to take it lying down and had conversations with several structures of management....

Oh boy, I sicken myself sometimes, but someone has to stand up for poor service [:0]

Originally posted by catsilversword
Given the fact that so much stuff is written into software, surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility that unusual spending patterns flag up somewhere? I've had a couple of occasions when buying currency (not with a credit card, I hasten to add!) where my switch card has been refused. Actually, both times have been with Marks and Spencer, and staff there have flatly refused to query why it's been declined. After talking to my bank and them being flummoxed (what a word) as to why it's been refused, they confirm that, in fact, the message traders get in such situations isn't a declined message, but a 'refer to bank' one. Seems they just won't or don't do it. Could have saved me a lot of aggravation - and them too, ultimately, since I refused to take it lying down and had conversations with several structures of management....

Oh boy, I sicken myself sometimes, but someone has to stand up for poor service [:0]

Aha! That helps explain the situation I experienced at Easter in the US when a transaction was refused on my cc. To be fair, the staff at the shop in question were as helpful as helpful could be (loan of phone etc) but when I did get through my cc company said "nothing wrong with card, no transaction actually refused"..

Sailor's point about the timing of the transactions is a good point and should be an easy spot but with the number of transactions flowing through cc processing systems the number of real time checks would, I think, have to be limited otherwise they'd likely lead to the systems grinding to a halt. I'd also take a punt that those checks that are deployed would vary so that fraudsters would not be able to rely on a certain, predictable, pattern of checks being in place.

Paul

In regards to security chacks on credit cards, I've always found the big CC issuers have more relaxed rules in regards to suspicious transactions (would mean they'd have to actually spend some ££ and get more staff).

However MBNA do seem to be in the middle ages technology wise - I work for a bank and if a customer wants to change credit card offers (just say it was a non fee paying VS card to a fee paying card) all it takes is an email to the right dept and it's done - no new application and more importantly no new credit card number! [V]

If that's the case and they are more lax, doesn't that sort of suggest they can afford to be? And doesn't that, in turn, suggest they can afford to be because they charge too much interest?

Probably a little black and white CSW. You would have to play into the formula the savings they make through not spending money on detailed investigations and extensive pre-action to stop/catch the theives.

Originally posted by sailor99
Probably a little black and white CSW. You would have to play into the formula the savings they make through not spending money on detailed investigations and extensive pre-action to stop/catch the theives.

Naturally, these things are always factored in..[8D]

[RichardMannion]

Sailor,

I can entirely sympathise with you in regards to MBNA and stupidity.

Just spent half an hour ont he phone with them trying to upgrade my non-fee VS MC up to the new Black Card. Can't be done. I have to make a whole new app.

Front line agent pointed the finger of blame at Virgin, saying it was their decision. I explaiend that this was not the case, and if anyone was preventing this, it was MBNA.

Passed to a 'manager' - the word 'useless' would be being too kind. Again I am told that I need to go through to the new applications departement as they are only 'the existing customers customer service' department. Failed to see the point that I was an existing customer. His dept have access to all my credit limit, spend, history, personal details but the application department didn't so I would need to supply all the information again. I asked him why MBNA decides to work in such silos, and he doesn't understand. Then the clincher, as a new applicant, I am not entitled to the Black Card benefits for the first year - I would just get the normal earning rates. So 2 for retail and 4 for VH/VS - no 10k bonus either - so absolutely pointless bothering.

MBNA just don't get logic and common sense. Why bother making an existign customer re-iterate all their details for a new app? Why the stupid staff that blame Virgin for their crap policy/abysmal systems that won't do the upgrade.

Absolutely pointless doing the upgrade then - will take great pleasure in taking the white card, charging the cheapest thing I can find to it, getting my miles and then cancelling the thing. Maybe I'll have the honour of being the first person to cancel their card. Good customer service is a benefit, sadly for MBNA abysmal customer service is a customer retention problem.

Thanks,
Richard

Have to say I've thought about getting my bonus miles and then cancelling. I simply feel little confidence in the card, mainly the 'do they don't they take it' thing. Coupled with that, have already had to phone through to complete a transaction that should have gone through online. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Maybe I'll have the honour of being the first person to cancel their card.

Sorry, pipped you to the post there old boy. Got mine through this morning, cut it in half and popped it in an envelope. Then addressed the envelope to their MD and put a note inside saying if he wanted to know why I had done this to speak to his customer service department.

Admittedly a futile and pointless exercise. However I felt better having metaphorically wiped my bum on their card, and not having lowered myself to just taking the miles.

Now my nice new BA card is very pretty, it plays "Les Fleurs Me Paraissent Plus Belles" whenever I buy something (not really) and when I rang up today to upgrade it from the free one to the premium plus one, it took all of 5 minutes to do. Need I say more.

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by sailor99

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Maybe I'll have the honour of being the first person to cancel their card.

Sorry, pipped you to the post there old boy. Got mine through this morning, cut it in half and popped it in an envelope. Then addressed the envelope to their MD and put a note inside saying if he wanted to know why I had done this to speak to his customer service department.

Oh you little..... [:(]

Just spoke to the person at VS that is running the credit-card relationship with MBNA. They are not amused to put a fine point on it but are happy that its been brought to their attention. The upgrade path is something that VS do want, but is not quite finalised yet. In the meantime whilst its sorted, I'll continue to spend inordinate amounts of money on my existing AmEx card. So ultimately MBNA's loss.

So if you encounter stupidity from MBNA like Sailor and I have, then please do share.

Thanks,
Richard

Originally posted by catsilversword
If that's the case and they are more lax, doesn't that sort of suggest they can afford to be? And doesn't that, in turn, suggest they can afford to be because they charge too much interest?

well a couple of hundred pound on an account is better than them having to pay around 24 - 28k a year (including insurance, salary etc) for a member of staff is better in their eyes. All I can say is Im glad I'm not a shareholder

Originally posted by RichardMannion

So if you encounter stupidity from MBNA like Sailor

What do you mean? Thick I maybe, but stupid?!

Originally posted by BelfastFlyer

Originally posted by catsilversword
If that's the case and they are more lax, doesn't that sort of suggest they can afford to be? And doesn't that, in turn, suggest they can afford to be because they charge too much interest?

well a couple of hundred pound on an account is better than them having to pay around 24 - 28k a year (including insurance, salary etc) for a member of staff is better in their eyes. All I can say is Im glad I'm not a shareholder

I can see your point - but even so, a 'couple of hundred on an account' soon racks up. And in my case, it was several thousand.... there's no easy answer, I know.